Intro

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to Making Sales Social. Whenever I have a guest, you know how excited I get. And I really love my guests, but not as much as my next one. Mark Gordon, who happens to be my brother. So I truly love him. Is also one of the most brilliant business builders I’ve ever seen. And I say that because I have witnessed him from being a producer in a mortgage company to launching a business, selling that company, becoming the CRO of the company, essentially, that he sold with a little more complexities than that.

But now he is helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and even larger companies really create that momentum inside of their organization. Mark, welcome to the podcast. 

Mark Gordon: I love the enthusiasm. Thank you so much for having me. And the love is obviously mutual in this case. 

Brynne Tillman: So this is so much fun. And I have to say, I’m really excited to have you here, not just because we get a chance to catch up, but really, I think as I’m watching your videos as an outsider, really in my social media feel feed, I’m going, man, you’re really it’s like, you know, when you’re my baby brother, you’re like, you’re my baby brother.

And I’m like, my God, you’re one of the smartest business growth experts out there. And I would not say it if I didn’t mean it. And so we’re going to back that up with some of your insights today. If you’re good with that.

Mark Gordon: Yeah, I love that. I was, by the way. 

Brynne Tillman: Yeah. I mean, it’s just really fun to watch your journey. I mean, I remember running around Dorney Park with you.

Mark Gordon: I think I was ten, so yeah, I heard about that anyway. 

Brynne Tillman: So let’s first start with the question that I ask everybody, which is what does Making Sales Social mean to you? 

Mark Gordon: Well, I mean, I think you can spin that had a bunch of different ways and you can kind of play with words. But what I’ll say for me is that I was a call center person for a long time. And when you’re a call center person, it’s not particularly social, right? It’s you know, you’re calling a lead, somebody applying for something. You’re teaching other people to call those leads. And honestly, like if you left, it’s like whoever hangs up first.

Like, you’re trying to keep them on the phone and like, if you let them go, there’s not a lot of follow because I want a relationship built. Right. Transitioning from that where I got my start to being a leader in companies where you’re selling, by the way, your vision of that company to everybody in your company, being a leader and projecting that vision out to then really here was things at Charleston building a community which I now rely on to continue to build what we built in our businesses and getting those things out there.

And it’s it’s been a huge evolution for me. What I will say is in terms of actual like how we use social media, really, to me it’s this amazing free for the most part way to stay in flow with all the people in your life who are interested in what’s going on with you. And so, you know, I see it as a tremendous opportunity to continue to do the people in my life with what’s going on and how and see how I can deliver value to them and they can deliver value back.

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, I love that. That is great and you know, the fact that you’re throwing value into social selling is really, really important. One of the things over the years that I noticed you are extremely talented in and I’ve heard you training people on this and using this is from the moment you say hello, you are creating a connection with the person on the other side.

What inspires that and how do you teach what you naturally have to other people? 

Mark Gordon: Well, the first thing I’ll say to people is, you know, identifying your aptitude or your natural curiosity for these things is important. I find people fascinating. I always have. You know, I was the kid in middle school who wanted to be on the phone all night talking to somebody to get to know what was going on with them, how their brain works, how they saw the world.

So I take a genuine interest in every person I meet. You know, I grew up listening to Howard Stern. You wouldn’t think that there’d be this connection. But what makes Howard so great is that whoever’s sitting on that couch becomes the most interesting person in the world for that hour or 2 hours, because he knows that they have a story and he’s able to pull that out of them.

And so for me, having that real curiosity, which like, wow, I just met this person, what’s their story? What makes them tick? What are the things that might be holding them back having that natural inclination is really important. And then what we really teach our salespeople to do is take that natural curiosity and realize, okay, and we have we actually the training on this this morning I then list like the top five referral partners and I said, here’s a list of ten questions that you can ask about this person do this or are they in your phonebook?

Yes. Create a minimum rate. Are you the president of Facebook? Create minimum write. And then it gets to like, do you know where they grew up and what their relationship with their parents is like? Right. Like, we don’t know that well, so you’ve got to have a real relationship with you and you guys are going to be in a business.

And how do you take that business to a different level, Right? Do you know what their goals are for the next 3 to 5 years? you don’t? Well, how are you going to be a good partner for them if you don’t know where they’re trying to take their business? And so taking that natural curiosity and really turning it into a checklist of like, Hey, these are the people I rely on for my business in my community, I need to really know them at a different level.

They need to really know me. One of the things that I just know rambling, but stays with me for verses

Brynne Tillman:  Fabulous rambling. Keep going. 

Mark Gordon: Okay. So people do business with people they know like trust and are in flow with. I think everybody knows that, right? I think where people get it really wrong or when they hear it, maybe even I got it wrong.

When a person is like, those people know me well. Knowing you aren’t like they know of you. Knowing you is like knowing you. And so when I find these people who are like not on social media all alone, also like, I like to keep my personal life different from business. And I’m like, So you mean there’s this way where you can project out to the world who you are, what’s important to you, and have those people feel like they really get to know you at scale, right?

Like the value of getting people to feel like they know you and can trust you at scale, which you can only really do through social media. Or if you have on a reality TV show, right? I mean, those are your options, right? And so and people not taking advantage of it, it makes me sad. I’m like, you know, your job is a via community.

If you’re a loan officer or a realtor, your job is your community. You want that community to be able to get to know you. So taking those things differently, you have to be genuinely curious. People realize that people are following you because they’re curious about you and they want to see you on your social media, or you want to be the realtor like posting pictures in houses all day.

I can go on Zillow for that. I want to see you talking about that house. I want to see you on your social media. I follow you for you. And so it’s it’s taking that. Are you when you look at your partners, you look at those relationships are you having a meaningful relationship or are you just hoping they send you another deal? Obviously, you’re alone there. You have to take it to the next level. 

Brynne Tillman: Yeah. Yeah. And I do truly believe that you know, people do business with the people that they’re connected with. They’re not picking Princeton Mortgage because, hey, I like the name right? They’re picking it because of the mortgage professional that they’ve connected with or you or Nicole.

Right. And if you should move or leave or you probably won’t. But usually, that relationship goes with the mortgage person or the realtor. Right? Right. And so creating those connections and you said something else at scale, right? I love the one-on-one conversations, but they don’t happen all because I’m going one-two they happen because I’m out on social and then they’re coming into me.

Mark Gordon: Yeah. Again, it just accelerates when you do get to that in one place if you already have a basic understanding of each other because you can find each other on social media for a year and a half. And by the way, it’s passive. These are things you learn I like the expression what can you learn while you’re not paying attention?

Social media is an amazing way where you can be strong. You think you’re no, no. But also and it’s like, I know what your kids look like. I know what your dog’s like, you where you went on vacation. I know what kind of food you like in the rest of your favorite restaurants, and I can see it. So now when we get this moment, sit down and have the coffee.

We’re not exchanging those pleasantries. There’s a closeness that can only come through that. And so we talk about social selling, right like that. That’s really where it comes in. It’s like, how can I let these people know who I am and what’s important to me so that I can accelerate that relationship and that learning curve? 

Brynne Tillman: Well, there’s a wonderful quote by the gentleman of the name Brian, Fan Zo, and you’ll love this. He says “Social media does not take the place of a handshake, but it turns a handshake into a hug.” That’s that’s really good. I wish I could write a man and come up with it myself. That’s really right. Yeah. But that’s what it does. And I think that that’s awesome. So let’s talk a little bit now.

You know, you’ve been running mortgage businesses. You have helped so many people become incredible salespeople. I love to watch your journey. I’m just blown away. But now what I’m really excited about is kind of this journey, what you and Nicole, your wife, my sister-in-law, are. And I love that you’re doing this really as a team because you’ve grown these businesses as a team.

You started off as producers together, right? So the story is fabulous and someday we’ll have to capture the whole thing. But now you are taking what you’ve done for your businesses and bringing it into other businesses that are struggling. They might have a great business, but they’re really struggling to get the word out to attract business and talk a little bit about what you’re doing when you evaluate whether or not you take on a business as a client. What are you looking for? 

Mark Gordon: Well, yeah, So it’s the first thing I’m driven by the fact that somebody very smart said, What do you want people to say about you at your funeral? And I immediately knew the answer to that. I never thought about it before, which is hope. There are a lot of people there who say, I help them get to where they want to go

And so that’s been like a very driving force for me in terms of where I spend my time. Right? And so I love the journey in the mortgage industry, planning to do this for a very long time. But also I found myself having a lot of amazing conversations, with people and businesses I knew nothing about. I loved learning about those businesses.

And by the way, those people thought I was adding a tremendous amount of value to them in having those conversations and started out with, Hey, I’m going to be with my buddy from high school. We have a once-a-week meeting kind of talk about business. And then it was, Hey, can you come to my company and teach my sales team this stuff?

And then it was like, you got to meet this other guy and everyone’s just kind of building on itself, right? And the client, by the way. Yes. We worked together and lived together all day, every day for 17 years. And we share very similar passions but different skill sets. And so between the two of us, you know, we were like angels.

And I think if we went to these different companies and to these different really individual leaders a lot of time because the other people, the people are the company, right? And if we offered our services, I think we would get some really good traction. And so we have and we did. And now we’ve partnered in a bunch of kinds of real estate adjacent industries and marketing companies that assist that are focused on real estate.

Things like hard escaping pest control and different things that we’ve been involved or were involved in because ultimately it’s the same stuff, right? All the problems with businesses are you and they’re trying to scale. Are either people’s processes or technology helping people identify which stage they’re at, and what those problems are helping them overcome those obstacles? It’s translating translates universally, and it’s been a tremendously fun thing for us to be involved in.

Brynne Tillman: So I love that talk a little bit about what gaps you’re seeing in these businesses when they come to you. They’re like, This is what we need. Or even if they don’t even know that they need it. What are you seeing?

Mark Gordon: I don’t I sitting here like, man, I can pick any theme and I can tell you, I mean, the number one crisis I see, honestly, is there’s a crisis of confidence from people who absolutely are the kind of person that could do a very good job as either a solopreneur or an entrepreneur but are afraid to make the job.

They think they have to wait till they get to some expert level or some different thing. They just need to partner with them so they can say they’re not doing it alone because they just have such a crisis of confidence. Right. They think that everyone they’re competing to do at the level they see of an Instagram influencer or this person, that person.

And really I’m like, let’s go call the companies in the local area. Do what you do, talk to the owner, and see if you think that person is better than you. And the answer is like, No, it blows their mind. Like, No, it’s not right. And then at the same time, you know, another problem I see is people think about marketing and they’re like they think about marketing and branding as if they’re the same thing and they’re not.

Branding is something you do over a longer scale, and it’s very hard to measure the success of. When we talk about marketing, it’s dollars that lead to leads, that lead to sales, and needs to be measured. It needs to be you have a very specific plan going in, you to know what success looks like going in and what failure looks like.

So you know when to get out. And I see I mean, the amount of money I see small means I business is throwing away a marketing campaigns they decided to do two years ago. I have lost sight of and are not delivering any value. I mean the tremendous and so knowing how to kind of execute all those different strategies.

And then lastly, you know, I think a lot of companies think accounting is bookkeeping or they think of it in that sort of way. And we really talk about how companies can take their capital and deploy those things and how, you know, you can become as big a solopreneur and turn that person to a multi-millionaire through what they do with their capital Once it’s outside their business.

And so it starts with, hey, we have you’re a guy who wants to be this busy getting started from other people who are like, Hey, they’re doing a million-year revenue, but they want to get to 10 million a year and they have no idea where to start. They don’t want to hire people. They don’t know how to manage their setup processes.

So we’re all over the map, but it’s there’s a lot of opportunity. 

Brynne Tillman: So I would reframe all over the map with You are a holistic approach. 

Mark Gordon: Yes. And by the way, because we want to go, you know, where maybe this is foolish, but we like to go on the journey with people. Right. You know, I think there’s a lot of consultants that want to come in, do three months, and be done with somebody.

And like there’s like a tremendous amount of satisfaction and also the distance they get from that project is a relief for them. I’m the opposite. I miss when I have a client, who wants it overseas, as I miss them, like I like to go on the journey for as long as we can. And we like to help people and we like to build those lifelong relationships.

And so it’s just a different approach that requires us to be able to be more holistic and have other people in our team that are really experts at the different things that maybe I’m not an expert in so that we can kind of continue on that journey with you. 

Brynne Tillman: Well I’m so proud of you. But so not to be condescending, but as the big sister, I’m allowed to just do a little bit. I really am. I think what you’re doing is absolutely phenomenal, and I’m so excited to see these companies that you’re partnering with really just grow and scale the way you’ve been able to do this for your own businesses. So as my listeners are like, okay, well, I’d love to explore working with Mark. What does that look like? How would they connect with you?

Mark Gordon: Yeah, I’m I’m all over Instagram. Mark Gordon on Instagram. I’m on LinkedIn as Mark Gordon as well. Certainly, if you’re having trouble finding you can Google Mark Gordon Prince in the mortgage, and I’ll pop right out, You know, those types of things. But I honestly reach out, you know, hit me up with a GM, hit me a message. I’m I love meeting people.

I love hearing people’s stories and whether or not I can help that person in that one conversation, then it’s in. There’s nothing to do there. Or the stars align and there’s perfect symmetry and it ends up being something more than that. Either way, we’re always looking to meet new people and have those conversations, and there’s still so much to learn, right?

So we love those conversations.

Brynne Tillman: I love that one of our taglines, which now apparently we have 22 of them, but what taglines is detaching from what the prospect is worth to you and attached to what you are worth to the prospect, and that’s what you live and breathe. You really are out there to help people and the money is the bonus.

And I think what you guys are doing is just, just magic. And I’m just really excited to see how this side, this new path, even though you’re still on the same path and the mortgage place but you know had this little branch path I think is going to absolutely have a huge impact on so many in their businesses.

So thanks for sharing. So the last question I ask everyone is what question should I’ve asked you that I didn’t?

Mark Gordon: That’s a good question. You know, I would say that I think that’s a lot of real questions. I think I could I think I could answer some of your questions better. I’m much more self-analytical than I am.

I am critical in these situations. But I will say that we value the as a business model, I think what we’re doing is honestly evolving and so on. And so we’ve done partnerships, we’ve done coaching arrangements, we’ve done the training stuff. And so in terms of just to the people in your audience, right, because I’m not I’m not always great the self-promotion or figuring exactly how this would all change anything.

What I would say is if you see that that person who you know should be an entrepreneur and they are either stuck in the beginning phases of it or they haven’t taken they haven’t been able to jump over that fence and get started. That’s a perfect person that we want to be introduced to That person. You’re like, That person is super talented and I don’t know why they were.

I don’t know why they’re the number two guy in that company. They should be owning that company. That guy we want to meet that guy. We want to meet that woman and we want to help those people get over the fence. So I think you did ask those questions to give me an opportunity to say that. But yes, that was perfect.

Brynne Tillman: That was perfect. Thank you. And publicly, Mark, I love you and I am guilty. Appreciate you sharing your insights today. 

Mark Gordon: Thank you for having me. And I love you, too. 

Brynne Tillman: So everyone, all the listeners, as you’re out and about, don’t forget to make yourselves social.

Outro

Thanks for watching and join us again for more special guest instructors, bringing you marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Hit the subscribe button below to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast give this video a thumbs up and comment down below on what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play.