Episode 493: Beyond Engagement Scores: Building Psychological Safety with the I, Me, You, We Framework

Elyse Dub 00:00
When I think about making sales social, it doesn’t feel like you’re selling anything. What it means to me is that somebody else is sharing their pain points, sharing the things they are challenged with, and then you come in with the service you offer in order to help them kill the pain—literally.

Bob Woods 00:21
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, Stan Robinson Jr., and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching and using so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Welcome to the show.

Brynne Tillman 00:44
Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I am beyond excited for today’s guest, Dr. Elyse Dub, licensed psychologist and founder of Insight On Site Mental Wellness—and a friend, a real-person friend. Elyse works with leaders and organizations that want more than engagement scores. She focuses on helping teams and organizations build real connections, providing the foundation for psychological safety and sustainable cultures that retain top talent. Her work sits at the intersection of mental wellness, leadership, and relationship building, with a practical framework leaders can actually use. Elyse, welcome to the program.

Elyse Dub 01:30
Thank you. It’s great to be here, and I’m excited for our conversation today.

Brynne Tillman 01:37
Me too. This came out of me seeing you speak at our event and being truly blown away—and I don’t get blown away that often. I’m really excited to share your framework with my network. But before we jump into your genius, we ask every one of our guests: What does making sales social mean to you?

Elyse Dub 02:05
First of all, I love this question because, as somebody who comes into this business world with no sales background whatsoever, I’m constantly thinking about the other person and what somebody else needs—not what I need. That’s a psychologist’s basic framework.

When I think about making sales social, it doesn’t feel like you’re selling anything. It means that somebody else is sharing their pain points and the things they’re challenged with, and then you come in with the service you offer to help them kill the pain—literally. It’s a painkiller, not a vitamin. When sales are social, it feels authentic. It feels right. I love that you’re providing this type of framework so it can feel good.

Brynne Tillman 03:05
I love that. One of our key tenets is to detach from what the prospect is worth to you and attach to what you are worth to the prospect. I feel like that’s exactly what you’re talking about.

Let’s jump in because I’m so excited to talk about this and share it with the world. You founded Insight On Site Mental Wellness with a very intentional name. How did you come up with it, and what does it signal to the leaders you work with?

Elyse Dub 03:43
Great question. I founded the business sometime in late 2019. As a psychologist, I noticed that people who knew what I did for a living were constantly calling me—hiding out at work, asking for advice, asking what to do, asking for referrals. I was inundated with those phone calls.

At the start of the business, I thought, “It’s Insight On Site.” I love a good play on words. I imagined going in as a psychologist and talking to people about various topics—work-life balance, parenting, stress. I did a lot of work with new parents.

What I realized quickly was that people wanted to talk about these topics, and the insight I was getting from the audience blew me away. I thought, “My model is all wrong. This is not about me. This is about everyone else and the insight that is on site.”

If you look to the right and left and start talking to your colleagues about real solutions to the problems that challenge you at work, the insight is already there. It’s not about me—it’s about all of you.

Brynne Tillman 05:01
I love that. It goes into the program you put on for us, which we’re still talking about months later. It was incredibly impactful—the I, Me, You, We framework. Walk us through that and why it’s so important in building trust-based relationships.

Elyse Dub 05:29
The I, Me, You, We framework is something I developed around authenticity. On the surface, we say, “Bring your authentic self to work.” That often sounds like, “This is who I am. This is how I show up.” Notice all the I’s and me’s.

We don’t often step back and ask, “What does it mean for me to be authentic at work?” Sometimes it’s about how we dress. Sometimes it’s about how we communicate. We need to ask ourselves that question intentionally.

For me, bringing my authentic self to work means thinking about other people, not myself. When we shift to “You,” we ask: How do you need me to show up at work in a way that aligns with my values but also helps me do my job effectively?

Then we get to “We.” How can I show up authentically in a way that aligns with the organization’s values and helps us achieve our goals together?

Sometimes, when you walk through this framework, you realize there isn’t a great fit, and that may lead to career decisions. But what I love about this process is that when you pause and reflect, you’re often surprised by the answers you generate for yourself. It’s been remarkably eye-opening to see.

Brynne Tillman 08:04
Let’s naturally go into how that’s integrated into the full programs you bring into organizations.

Elyse Dub 08:17
The work I do at Insight On Site is focused on building relationships at work. Over a lifetime, we spend well over 100,000 hours at work. We need meaningful relationships with the people we work with.

We often think about relationships in extremes—either best friends or nothing. In reality, most workplace relationships fall somewhere in between.

I work in groups, purposefully building relationships. Data from the Harvard Study of Adult Development shows that life satisfaction is strongly linked to having good relationships across different areas of life.

I facilitate group discussions on three major topics. The first is stress. The insight is on site—people share strategies they use to manage stress, and I facilitate the conversation.

The second is work-life imbalance. We talk about life as more integrated than balanced and discuss practical strategies.

The third topic is caregiving. That doesn’t just mean caring for children—it can mean caring for parents or caring for yourself. I recently ran a multigenerational group framed around living on your own for the first time or in a long time. We had participants in their 20s and 60s sharing a common experience.

These topics are intentionally non-political. They focus on shared human experiences. The return on investment shows up in engagement, retention, productivity, and reduced absenteeism because people feel connected. The data supports it.

Brynne Tillman 10:57
I love that. You mentioned “non-political,” which feels important today. How do you keep it that way?

Elyse Dub 11:11
The topics we discuss—stress, anxiety, depression, caregiving—are universal. Mental health challenges are on the rise. These issues impact performance at work regardless of political beliefs.

When we work on these conversations during the workday, we’re building relationships in a structured way. Otherwise, people are going to seek support elsewhere during work hours anyway.

In one caregiving group, someone shared a strategy that didn’t align with another person’s values. But it was one strategy among many. That was powerful. We can disagree without it being the only way.

By focusing on shared human experiences, we create space for connection. Maybe political conversations can happen later, but first, let’s talk about what impacts our daily lives.

Brynne Tillman 12:54
It feels like when politics are removed, you connect with people you might not otherwise connect with.

Elyse Dub 13:08
Correct. One of the questions I ask in the I, Me, You, We framework is: If you’re being authentic at work, is it necessary to talk about politics? I’m not taking a stand—I’m posing the question.

Brynne Tillman 13:26
That framework really gets you thinking about whether a conversation is productive for the group as a whole.

I want to go back to something. Many leaders say connection matters, yet their teams still feel disconnected. Where’s the biggest breakdown? What’s the difference between intention and behavior? A leader can say connection is important, but their behavior may not support it.

Elyse Dub 14:17
Right. I think there are a couple of things I’ve experienced specifically with Insight On Site. Leaders say connection matters, and they may bring somebody like me in to do a single workshop. That’s great—check the box. We talked about connection, building relationships, and moments of stress. Done.

But relationships don’t work that way. That’s where the fallout happens between great intentions and behavior. We look to see whether people do what they say they’re going to do. When you bring someone in for one session, it doesn’t feel like follow-through. The behavior isn’t consistent.

I always use the analogy: You don’t go on a strict diet for one day and suddenly look like a supermodel. It doesn’t work that way. Relationships aren’t built in one session. We’re not solving stress in one session.

Another piece is this: When people are stressed, the default solution is often, “Go see a therapist on your own time.” There’s definitely a place for that. But we don’t always realize what can be done inside the workplace to help people manage those challenges so they can be the employees you want them to be.

I think about innovation, creativity, psychological safety—making mistakes, learning from them, and knowing people have your back in a professional way.

Brynne Tillman 16:13
That leads into the next question: How does this impact everyday workplace interactions versus just moments of crisis?

Elyse Dub 16:29
That’s a great question. I’ll share a story. I was running a parenting group at an organization that included the CTO and the CMO. They didn’t really know one another.

Afterward, the CTO said to me privately, “I feel like I need to be in some of those meetings. I feel my team is being left out.” He told me he now felt more confident asking to be included.

That’s powerful. That’s impact.

I’ve had others say, “This group is what’s keeping me here.” That’s huge.

In another group, someone didn’t speak for five sessions. Then, when she felt safe, she shared something personal. That allowed her colleagues to get to know her.

This spans across organizations and has a positive impact on teams and relationships. When people feel connected at work, they stay.

Brynne Tillman 18:12
That’s critical for retention. From your perspective, what are leaders overlooking that causes people to leave? What can they do to retain top talent?

Elyse Dub 18:35
People leave when they don’t feel seen or heard. In shorter trainings, I often go back to the basics—listening skills and giving feedback.

Managers are being squeezed right now. They’re asked to do so much. People leave when they don’t feel properly trained to do their jobs, especially at the manager level, where managing people requires specific skills.

Sometimes they don’t feel supported from above. They may feel they lack the skills to lead effectively.

It comes down to skills, feeling connected, and having accessibility to managers.

Brynne Tillman 19:48
Accessibility is huge. So is feeling comfortable communicating. I had someone on my team who felt she had to do everything and wasn’t communicating overwhelm.

Your framework helped me see the importance of creating an environment where people feel comfortable expressing not just work issues but feelings. That was an aha moment for me.

Elyse Dub 20:48
Yes. And sharing feelings can feel scary. It can feel vulnerable.

There’s often a disconnect between intention and behavior. If sharing feelings feels uncomfortable, start intentionally. Think about what and how you want to share.

I recently posted on LinkedIn asking, “Do you remember the first purchase you made with money you earned?” It’s a safe way to share. When people answer, you see a smile as they recall the memory.

Sharing doesn’t have to mean revealing your deepest secrets. It can be intentional and aligned with your values—going back to I, Me, You, We.

Brynne Tillman 22:25
If an organization wants a more inclusive, connected culture, where should they start—even before bringing someone like you in?

Elyse Dub 22:44
Start by getting people talking to one another during the workday.

When connection activities happen outside of work, like happy hours, attendance can be difficult. Instead, bring in speakers on relevant topics during work hours. It sends the message that the business cares.

Lunches are great, but unstructured social time can be challenging for some people. Vary the offerings based on what employees are asking for.

Ask them: “If we offer this program, would you be interested?” That aligns with I, Me, You, We.

Brynne Tillman 24:05
I can see how powerful this shift can be for an organization, especially when turnover is so high. It takes about a year before someone is fully producing. Retention matters.

Elyse Dub 24:56
Right. How can I be helpful to you?

Brynne Tillman 24:58
Before we talk about how people can reach you, what question should I have asked that I didn’t?

Elyse Dub 25:11
That’s a good one. Maybe how to reach me.

Brynne Tillman 25:36
We’ll get there. But I’ll add one: Why was the I, Me, You, We framework powerful for me when I experienced it?

Elyse Dub 25:47
Yes. What made it so powerful for you?

Brynne Tillman 26:00
My business is built around trust-based relationships. I realized that externally my messaging was aligned, but internally it was focused on what I wanted.

I shifted from saying, “I want you to do this,” to, “Here’s what we’d like to achieve. Where can you bring value? Where would you like to contribute?”

That small shift has had a big impact. People go above and beyond because they get to choose their contribution.

There are still times when I need to say, “We need this done.” But now it’s “we,” not “I.”

Elyse Dub 27:15
I love that because you’re sharing power. You’re shifting the dynamic.

I use “we” more than “I” as a leader because it communicates that we’re in this together. It says, “I’m not leaving you. We’ll figure this out.”

Brynne Tillman 27:51
It empowers people. That can be scary for leaders who want everything done their way. But when you empower others, you uncover ideas you didn’t know you were missing.

Elyse Dub 28:13
Exactly. Work is changing. We didn’t even touch on AI. Shifting from micromanaging to shared responsibility allows human beings to think differently. That’s how we grow.

Brynne Tillman 28:43
For listeners who are thinking, “My organization needs this,” how can they reach you?

Elyse Dub 28:55
The best way is through my website: www.insightonsite.org.

Brynne, thank you for having me. This was a wonderful conversation.

Brynne Tillman 29:18
Thank you, my friend. And to our listeners, when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

Bob Woods 29:27
Thanks for watching. Join us again for more special guests sharing marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies that set you apart. Hit the subscribe button to get the latest episodes of the Making Sales Social podcast. Give this video a thumbs up and comment below with what you’d like to hear next.

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