Episode 494: Stop Measuring Everything: Smarter KPIs for Inside Sales Success
In this episode of Making Sales Social, Brynne Tillman sits down with inside sales consultant, mastermind facilitator, and author Lynn Hidy to unpack what actually drives consistent performance on inside and remote sales teams.
Lynn shares the thinking behind her Salesperson Value Calculator and explains why measuring everything is the fastest way to overwhelm reps and derail results. Instead, she breaks down how leaders should separate result factors from effort factors, focus only on metrics reps can control, and build dashboards that drive clarity not noise. The conversation also explores Lynn’s practical coaching framework inspired by the “can’t, won’t, don’t-know-how” model developed by Hannah Rudstrom. Leaders will learn how to identify organizational roadblocks, skill gaps, seat mismatches, and motivation issues before defaulting to more training.
If you lead an inside sales team and want fewer vanity metrics, better coaching conversations, and performance systems that truly move the needle, this episode delivers actionable insight you can implement immediately.
View Transcript
Lynn Hidy 00:00
I think that social is the piece that people miss in making sales social. Too often, it gets silly and salesy on LinkedIn instead of offering insights and having a conversation.
Brynne Tillman 00:18
With somebody,
Bob Woods 00:19
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, Stan Robinson Jr., and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching and using so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Brynne, welcome to the show.
Brynne Tillman 00:42
Welcome back to Making Sales Social. My guest today, Lynn Hidy, is not only an incredible friend, author, and women’s sales expert, but she also brings the most brilliant inside sales insights. She is an inside sales consultant, mastermind facilitator, and the author of Mastering Inside Sales Leadership. Lynn has spent decades helping inside sales leaders turn everyday performance challenges into consistent results. Her work is practical, direct, and grounded in what actually moves the needle for remote and inside sales teams. She’s especially famous for two ideas we’ll dig into today: the Salesperson Value Calculator and her brilliant Bell Curve Manifesto. Lynn, welcome to the program.
Lynn Hidy 01:38
Thank you so much. After years of just chatting with you, we finally get to record.
Brynne Tillman 01:42
Something I know! My favorite thing is hanging out at our conferences and learning so much from you. You bring such a light and incredible aura. The fact that this year I got to sit next to you for two days was amazing. I loved it. Alright, before we jump into your genius, we ask all our guests the same first question: what does making sales social mean to you?
Lynn Hidy 02:13
I’m probably going to use your words somehow clustered into my own, but I think that social is the piece that people miss in making sales social. Too often, it gets silly and salesy on LinkedIn instead of offering insights and having a conversation. Even when you’re just posting your thoughts, write them like you’re actually talking to somebody.
Brynne Tillman 02:52
That’s perfect. You know, in my over 400 episodes, I’m not sure anyone has ever actually said that, and I love it! As if you’re having a conversation—it’s a crazy idea. I love that idea. Thank you for sharing it.
Alright, I’m really excited to talk about our two topics today. The first one is your creation of the Salesperson Value Calculator. Tell us a little bit about the problems you were seeing in inside sales leadership that made you build it.
Lynn Hidy 03:30
Here’s what happens in inside sales. I see it less when talking to people in outside sales, but inside sales measures everything. Because we can. But unless you tie a measurement to an outcome—or tie it to the why behind the measurement—it gets lost.
If you measure everything, I’ve seen dashboards with 42 metrics. Every day, a salesperson logs into the CRM and sees every statistic known to man. It’s all noise, so they focus on nothing instead of the things that matter.
The first step is to define the factors that make people successful. That’s a big piece of the calculator. I ask people to break it into results, factors, and effort. You need both: daily efforts to achieve results, and the final results themselves.
For example, I spoke with an inside sales leader who said, “I just want appointments.” I said, “Great, but every call doesn’t get an appointment. What do you want them to do to reach that result?”
Brynne Tillman 05:03
I love it. So you start with the end in mind—the results, like the appointment—and then back into it with KPIs.
Lynn Hidy 05:12
Exactly. What efforts demonstrate success in your organization? For appointments, it might be conversations, which are more qualitative. Some organizations say, “Out of every 10 conversations, we expect 2 good appointments.” Others say 1 in 4. It depends on your organization, not someone else’s idea of perfection. Measure your results and the efforts that got you there.
For social selling, maybe the team needs to interact with prospects on LinkedIn. How will you measure that? Do you have LinkedIn integrated with your CRM? The point is to measure what matters and not overwhelm them with 42 metrics.
Brynne Tillman 06:53
So what I’m hearing—correct me if I’m wrong—is that we start with the end goal, and only measure what the rep can control, at least on the dashboard, right?
Lynn Hidy 07:11
Exactly. Show them the results on the dashboard, but separate the efforts from the results.
Brynne Tillman 07:24
I love that. So the KPIs, other than the results KPI, should be things they can control.
Lynn Hidy 07:31
Yes.
Brynne Tillman 07:35
If we share KPIs like “how many people pick up the phone,” that’s not under the rep’s control.
Lynn Hidy 07:46
But they can control how many calls they make, LinkedIn work, emails sent. They can also influence the number of conversations by figuring out how many calls it takes to reach people.
Brynne Tillman 08:11
I love that. So this isn’t theory—it’s tactical. How do inside sales managers use this as a coaching and decision tool?
Lynn Hidy 08:30
I use a model created by Dr. Hannah Rudstrom from Cornell’s Department of Labor and Industrial Relations—the “Can’t, Won’t, Don’t Know How” model.
“Can’t” is an organizational roadblock. For example, salespeople couldn’t reach pre-sales engineers, so they were losing deals. The solution was finding engineers comfortable jumping on calls to support the sales team.
“Won’t” is when someone can do it and knows how but refuses. You need to assess if they’re coachable and what’s holding them back.
“Don’t Know How” is the final piece, where training or guidance can help.
Brynne Tillman 10:22
So you bring in other experts inside the organization to supplement outreach.
Lynn Hidy 10:31
Yes, exactly. The salesperson reaches out, and the engineer supplements, providing technical knowledge so deals can move forward.
“Can’t” can also mean a mismatch—someone not capable of the role. Sometimes you have the right people, but they’re in the wrong seat.
Brynne Tillman 11:22
Yeah, and sometimes you have the right people on the bus but in the wrong seat.
Lynn Hidy 11:29
Exactly. First, identify whether it’s the organization or the person.
Brynne Tillman 11:47
Right. I couldn’t do bookkeeping—period.
Lynn Hidy 12:03
Even if it didn’t break your brain, it would take longer and be less effective. Not everyone is the right person for every task.
So that’s the first part: “Can’t” is organizational or role-related. “Won’t” is knowing how but not doing it. “Don’t Know How” is lack of knowledge or skill.
Brynne Tillman 12:28
Doing it, yeah—that’s running my CRM.
Lynn Hidy 12:32
For “Won’t,” leaders need to assess coachability. If someone knows how but won’t, figure out what’s stopping them. Your managers must be good coaches and know when coaching is worth it.
Brynne Tillman 13:26
And deciding if coaching is right for the person is as important as the coaching itself.
Lynn Hidy 13:40
Exactly. If someone isn’t receptive, coaching won’t work. For example, during onboarding, I might tell a VP, “Don’t spend time coaching this person—they’re not coachable. They’ll either succeed wildly or fail.”
Brynne Tillman 14:41
Yeah, a Lone Wolf.
Lynn Hidy 14:44
Right. The organization adapts—limited territory, comp plan for large deals—so the rep succeeds without coaching.
Brynne Tillman 15:50
I love that. You can quickly identify who needs what. One of your gifts is that sales leaders don’t have to guess.
Lynn Hidy 16:18
And that’s why I love the calculator. The final piece is results plus effort divided by the PIA factor—Pain In the Ass factor. A rock star with huge ego issues can be less valuable than a mid-level team player.
Brynne Tillman 17:36
Everyone has strengths—you just decide if it’s working toward or against your goal.
Alright, I’m going to do a little switcheroo because I want to talk about the Bell Curve Manifesto.
Lynn Hidy 17:54
A bit of manifesto. I love a good manifesto.
Brynne Tillman 17:58
Who doesn’t? So talk a little about what it is and why you believe most teams misunderstand the Bell Curve.
Lynn Hidy 18:09
It’s math. We’ve all heard the 80/20 rule, right? Well, it actually works out to 13% at the bottom, 13% at the top, and 68% in the middle. You cannot have a team of all rock stars. That just moves the bell curve—today’s rock stars become the middle of your organization. That’s not a bad thing, but…
Brynne Tillman 18:43
There are still not all rock stars. But here’s the thing—they hit platinum.
Lynn Hidy 18:51
Look across your organization. It’ll look like that—80% in the middle, 68% using real math. Instead of trying to make everyone a rock star, raise everyone up. If your mid-level producers, for example, do a million, what if everyone in the 68% did 1.1 million? Six out of ten people now perform at a higher level, raising the whole team.
People in the middle often get ignored. The bottom 13%—HR makes you talk to them, document every conversation. The top 13%—your true rock stars—demand your attention.
Brynne Tillman 20:07
They’ve earned it.
Lynn Hidy 20:11
Yes, but are you going to get huge growth from them? If they’re already top producers, the incremental improvement is minimal. Please don’t stop paying attention to them, but consciously look at the middle group. Run them through your value calculator. Identify who’s coachable, who’s missing key skills. In today’s AI world, we need to evaluate business acumen—can salespeople have meaningful business conversations? Many inside sales reps, especially younger ones, lack this understanding.
Brynne Tillman 21:13
I agree. The best salespeople are good at what they do, love it, and people are willing to pay for it. But if they’re not skilled, even if they love it and people will pay, they’re in the bottom 13%.
Lynn Hidy 21:34
Yes. Or they’re inconsistent—somewhere in the middle.
Brynne Tillman 21:43
That 63% is middle child syndrome.
Lynn Hidy 21:47
Hi, my name is Lynn. I’m a middle child, so maybe that’s why I have a Bell Curve Manifesto.
Brynne Tillman 21:56
I’m the oldest, but my brother has the oldest personality—we swapped.
Lynn Hidy 22:09
That’s okay because it’s true of salespeople too. Some demonstrate rock-star capabilities but aren’t rock stars yet. Figure out why, give them attention—it can shift their career trajectory and impact your goals.
Brynne Tillman 22:35
Interesting. I have a son who’s an identical twin of another son who got a job with UBS. They were college athletes, coachable, willing to wake up early. If they don’t succeed where they are, they’d make great salespeople.
Lynn Hidy 23:16
Exactly. Look at what makes your top salespeople alike—the traits, behaviors, and hire for those traits. I consult on top, middle, and bottom performers, analyzing what they do consistently, occasionally, or never. Some things bottom performers do consistently are things top reps refuse to do.
Brynne Tillman 24:35
Interesting insight.
Lynn Hidy 24:39
For example, top reps wouldn’t send a quote if they didn’t feel the deal was real. Bottom reps sent a quote as soon as someone asked for pricing.
Brynne Tillman 25:11
I don’t love that behavior, but I see the observation.
Lynn Hidy 25:15
You can track it in the CRM—measure deal confidence when quotes are sent. Low-to-mid reps sent quotes at 25% confidence; top reps at 75%.
Brynne Tillman 25:51
So measuring KPIs like number of proposals sent can encourage bad behavior.
Lynn Hidy 26:08
Yes, same with demos. If reps set demos with prospects who won’t buy, it wastes time and effort, frustrates the team, and skews metrics.
Brynne Tillman 26:52
So ineffective KPIs can hold the team back.
Lynn Hidy 27:09
Exactly. The value calculator works for anyone.
Brynne Tillman 27:20
I have bankers who could use this—they measure interactions like walking the street and talking to business owners.
Lynn Hidy 27:42
It changes the dynamic between effort and results. You notice whether measured efforts actually drive results.
Brynne Tillman 28:01
Yes, and the percentage of effort that converts to results is key—not just raw numbers.
Brynne Tillman 28:39
Where do inside sales leaders unintentionally hold teams back, even with good intentions?
Lynn Hidy 28:39
Measuring is a good intention. Giving people metrics to strive for matters, but showing them everything without context is a problem. If you don’t tell people why they should care, they don’t know how to affect change.
Brynne Tillman 29:21
Love this. For leaders feeling isolated or stuck, what’s one shift they can make this quarter?
Lynn Hidy 29:40
To create momentum, contact me. I run a mastermind for inside sales leaders—they don’t have to feel alone.
Brynne Tillman 29:54
Isolation is rampant, especially on hybrid remote teams. Being part of a peer community is invaluable.
Lynn Hidy 30:15
A community of peers from different backgrounds helps. Inside sales leaders often have to translate outside sales training for their team. For example, pre-COVID, Sandler Sales techniques were taught for outside sales. I had to repurpose it for inside sales, adapting the language and delivery for phone interactions.
Brynne Tillman 31:28
Customization is key. Cookie-cutter training doesn’t work—you dive in, see what works, and build for that team. That’s the magic.
Brynne Tillman 32:49
How does all of this come together in your book, Mastering Inside Sales Leadership: Get It Done Leadership Success Guide?
Lynn Hidy 32:49
Someone asked me for a playbook for new inside sales leaders. There wasn’t one, so I created this guide—from vision to daily tasks. It’s a Get It Done guide: start with your vision for leadership and follow through with daily actions.
Brynne Tillman 33:44
Chapter Five, on team development, is my favorite. It’s about leveraging a mix of experiences and truly becoming a team. It gave me multiple “aha” moments.
Lynn Hidy 34:30
Thank you!
Brynne Tillman 34:34
What’s one question I should have asked you that I didn’t?
Lynn Hidy 34:40
The best qualifying question to ask prospects in a meeting. Think differently. Corporate vision statements exist, but inside sales leaders should translate them into their team’s vision. What do you want your team to achieve for the organization? Merge corporate and team vision, and share it.
Brynne Tillman 36:06
I love that—a personal vision aligned with the company vision.
Brynne Tillman 36:25
Lynn, you’re brilliant, warm, and a joy. How can leaders reach you?
Lynn Hidy 36:54
Call me: 315-751-0146. I’ll answer or call back. Also, find me on LinkedIn at Lynn Hidy. If connected to Brynne, you’ll be a secondary connection.
Brynne Tillman 37:40
Inside sales leaders can also message me for a copy of Lynn’s book.
Lynn Hidy 38:04
We could talk forever about sales.
Brynne Tillman 38:10
We may have to do this again. Go buy Mastering Inside Sales Leadership: Get It Done Leadership Success Guide. Don’t forget to make your sales social.
Bob Woods 38:28
Thanks for watching. Join us again for more special guests on marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies. Subscribe, like, comment, and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and other platforms. Visit our website, socialsaleslink.com, for more information.