Episode 497: Curiosity Over Control: Helping Young Professionals Launch with AI and Authenticity

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Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I am so excited to have Jody Murnnock with us today. She is a real-life friend, and I was actually at a networking meeting with her last night, and I’m so excited to be talking with her today. She is a career coach and lifelong sales and marketing professional who helps emerging professionals launch their careers with confidence and clarity. Jody brings decades of experience across recruiting, advertising.

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Brynne Tillman: sales, brand management, and consulting, with leadership roles at organizations like Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, and General Mills.

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Brynne Tillman: Today, she works one-on-one with college seniors and recent grads to help them tell their stories clearly.

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Brynne Tillman: Build intentional networking strategies, and navigate a competitive job market with confidence for both real people and AI-driven systems.

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Brynne Tillman: Jody’s work is grounded in relationships, resilience, and impact, and she partners closely with parents as well, helping them step back while their young adults step forward. Jodi. Welcome to Making Sales Social!

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Jodi Murnick: Fran, thank you so much for having me, that was such a nice introduction!

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Brynne Tillman: Well, you are such a nice person. We met a few months ago at a little local ladies group, and, you know, for months I had been going, and I love the people.

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Brynne Tillman: And I… and I was like, you know, this really is not my world, right? There… there’s, like, a stylist, interior designer, a mortgage person, like…

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Brynne Tillman: It’s… it’s not really where I would typically network, but I kept going back because the people were awesome. And it’s funny, because last night you invited me to this incredible networking group that I know I’ll be involved in, and I came home, and I’m like, I kept going back to that group to meet Jodi.

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Brynne Tillman: Like, I… just amazing, and maybe Elise, too. But, you know, really, I’m so excited to have you in my world, it’s amazing, so I’m excited to have you here. And you inspire me, and you’re just fun, and I love all those things.

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Brynne Tillman: So, before we jump into your genius, and there’s plenty of that, we ask all of our guests the same first question, which is, what does making sales social mean to you?

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Jodi Murnick: So, making sales social means

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Jodi Murnick: for me, it means that it’s what I love about sales. So I started my career… early in my career, I sold advertising for a company called CitySearch.com, back when the internet was kind of like what AI is today, right? I was selling to local bars and restaurants, and trying to convince them that they wanted to have a very flat website on the internet, because it was putting them… I actually called it the information highway.

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Brynne Tillman: I remember those days!

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Jodi Murnick: And I can remember a very successful restaurateur in Austin, Texas, saying to me, nobody’s ever gonna look for a pizza on the internet.

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Jodi Murnick: I think he may have said nobody’s gonna eat a pizza on the internet, but what I would say today is, no, they’re not going to eat a pizza on the internet, but I wouldn’t know how to order one without the internet.

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Jodi Murnick: Even if it just meant finding the phone number, right? Like.

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Brynne Tillman: What?

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Jodi Murnick: If your restaurant is not listed… but that’s where that was 20 years ago. So, the reason I got into that role, and what I loved so much about it, was I loved meeting people. And so, to me, making sales social really means leading with curiosity.

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Jodi Murnick: And so, I would say today, I don’t sell coaching.

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Jodi Murnick: I learn… I talk to parents, and I learn about their young adults.

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Jodi Murnick: And through that learning, I see where they’re struggling, where they’re getting stuck.

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Jodi Murnick: For the parents, honestly, how painful it is that they’re in this situation where they feel like they can help somebody who’s not listening to them, and it’s starting to really impact the relationship. And there’s that tension, too, and they’re like, I just want to talk to my kid again, like, mom?

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Jodi Murnick: And not… I don’t want to be their career coach.

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Jodi Murnick: And then they start to question themselves, too. I don’t know if I have it right. So, you know, I’m talking to them and learning all about this situation, and eventually there’s a point where I kind of can’t help myself, and I’m like, you know.

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Jodi Murnick: This is how… this is how I help.

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Jodi Murnick: This is what I can do.

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Jodi Murnick: Making sales social, to me, just means, like, bringing my humanity to it, and my natural curiosity, and learning about people.

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Brynne Tillman: I love that, and I love that you bring natural curiosity. I think curiosity is the most important connector.

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Jodi Murnick: Definitely.

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Brynne Tillman: So, I think that’s brilliant. And a side note on this, my stepson, when he graduated NYU, said, can you help me with my LinkedIn? And I said, no, we’re gonna hire someone to help you with your LinkedIn, because I don’t think parents should be doing that with their kids. I think you need an outside person.

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Brynne Tillman: Even though he’s my stepson, he’s like, what do you mean you can’t help me? You’re not gonna help me with LinkedIn? I’m like, nope.

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Brynne Tillman: But Lynn Williams…

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Brynne Tillman: You’re gonna go to Lynn, and she’s gonna help you, and I’ll pay a couple thousand dollars.

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Brynne Tillman: And you’re gonna get it right, and we’re gonna still have a great relationship! Right? Yeah, it’s hard.

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Brynne Tillman: It’s hard, it’s hard. So, you know, all these parents out there who love their kids and want to support them, often at this time in their life, right, that senior year of college, and there’s a lot of worry about jobs today. It’s harder today than it’s ever been for these kids.

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Brynne Tillman: And the parents tend to put on this pressure. And so, what I love, and I’ve heard from you, is how

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Brynne Tillman: They can maintain a really good relationship with their new grad, or soon to be recent… soon-to-be grad.

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Brynne Tillman: And still get everything they need, and I think it’s a brilliant… I don’t know anyone else doing what you’re doing. At all. Like, I think you have a new… you’ve created a new market, which I think is brilliant. Anyway, so…

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Brynne Tillman: I’m really excited to jump in, and you do a lot, but I want to talk a little bit about the AI expertise that you’re bringing to the table. And I say AI expertise, you are as brilliant at AI as anyone.

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Brynne Tillman: And we’re still at the infancy of this, right? Like, it’s amazing. So… so a lot of people think AI is, you know, speed and automation, right? But that’s not what you’re teaching. So how are you actually teaching and using AI

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Brynne Tillman: To grow… well, to grow your… let’s go with your business. How are you using AI to grow your business?

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Jodi Murnick: Well, so it’s really two-fold. I don’t know if you’re gonna say to help my students.

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Brynne Tillman: We’re gonna do that next? It’s gonna be…

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Jodi Murnick: But here’s… the truth is, so much of my journey is mirroring my students’ journey, right? I’m a new business owner, I’m an entrepreneur, so many of the things I’m trying to do are so similar to the things I’m trying to tell my students to do that, more often than not.

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Jodi Murnick: I’m teaching them the same things I’m doing, right? Because I’m networking, I’m building relationships, I’m doing all the things they’re trying to do as well. So, AI doesn’t replace, my voice or my relationships, but it really helps me clarify my thinking.

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Jodi Murnick: So… and that’s really what I… that’s how I tell students to use it as well. So an example is, you know, when I’m writing LinkedIn posts every week, I try and batch my LinkedIn every week, so that my voice stays consistent every week, and at the beginning of the week, or on a Sunday, I will sit down with usually

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Jodi Murnick: Claude, sometimes chat, I go back and forth.

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Brynne Tillman: I’m a Gemini fan now, we’ll talk about that.

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Jodi Murnick: I, I know, there’s so many options. And I will say, here’s what I’m thinking.

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Jodi Murnick: About for the week.

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Jodi Murnick: really, really, like, high level, right? This is what… these are some things that have happened this week that I felt like were really… I’ll pull from insights from students I’ve worked with, or things I’ve seen in the market. This is what I’m thinking about this week.

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Jodi Murnick: Help me organize this into 3 posts that’ll really resonate with my audience.

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Jodi Murnick: And then I’ll… every prompt I ever write, I’ll say, ask me questions, one at a time. I might have learned this from you, Brynn. Ask me questions, one at a time. I don’t want you to make any assumptions, and I want to make sure that everything that comes out sounds uniquely me.

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Brynne Tillman: I love it.

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Jodi Murnick: And then we’ll sort of go through. I mean, it can take…

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Jodi Murnick: Sometimes it takes me an hour or two, because I really strive to get it right, and as a marketer and a salesperson, the insight is so important to me. And sometimes, you know, the first draft that whichever… whichever thing I’m using gives me feels generic.

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Jodi Murnick: And I will say, this sounds generic, this isn’t where I’m going. Ask me deeper questions.

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Jodi Murnick: So we can get to the heart of what I’m… or sometimes I’ll, like, I’ll even say, I think what we’re really trying to get at here is this.

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Jodi Murnick: Let’s dive deeper into it. I think the insight is, and it might be something like, I think the insight is parents are feeling, you know, we spend 20 years

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Jodi Murnick: Raising these people.

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Jodi Murnick: And we’re, like, slowly, slowly letting go. And now there’s this moment where we’re really supposed to, like, take our hands off the wheel, and the stakes couldn’t feel higher.

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Jodi Murnick: And so I’ll say that to chat, right? Let’s explore how that insight can play into what I’m talking about here.

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Jodi Murnick: And then we have a conversation and a dialogue, and so it couldn’t be more human, because I’m just adding more and more humanity to it. But for me, it gives me the freedom

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Jodi Murnick: To, like, have a thought partner.

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Jodi Murnick: Right? And the other thing I’ve done is I’ve taken all my LinkedIn data, and I know I talked to you about this a little bit, because I’m a nerd. I was a brand manager, and I like to run a… I like to work in numbers, and I like to get facts. And so LinkedIn has this cool thing where you can download 90 days worth of analytics.

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Jodi Murnick: And so I will download my last 90 days’ worth of analytics, but reviewing all that data is not fun to me at all. So I’ll dump it into Claude, and I’ve run… now I’ve done it a few times, I’ve run some different analyses, and then I’ll sort of pressure test the analysis, and then I saved it.

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Jodi Murnick: So now, every time I write a… I do a series of LinkedIn posts, I also remind it to reference my LinkedIn analysis, and make sure that this post is taking advantage of all the insights

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Jodi Murnick: We learned on what works in my posts.

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Brynne Tillman: So that’s… that’s genius. And so…

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Brynne Tillman: hands down, that’s a huge takeaway. And, you know, I’m not a data person, per se. I’m much… I rely a lot more on instinct, but I do run 100-person tests.

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Brynne Tillman: So, I do run A-B testing messaging, the marketing A-B testing piece, and so AI has helped a lot with that, but what you’re doing is taking data that is already being fed to you. You don’t have to go do surveys.

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Jodi Murnick: And you’re leveraging that to…

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Brynne Tillman: you’re curious at what worked and what didn’t work, and now you’re using that to improve posts going forward, and I think that’s great. But I’ll tell you the big takeaway that I heard from you that I really love, is your conversation with AI is like it’s another person.

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Brynne Tillman: Like, you’re having this interest… it’s like you’re… you’re texting back and forth with an assistant.

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Jodi Murnick: Who has the most… the thickest skin, and never gets offended.

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Jodi Murnick: Right? One of my, special things is how direct I am.

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Jodi Murnick: And sometimes, sometimes humans I have to be careful with. But with AI, it’s fabulous. I can be super direct, and, you know, even to the point of sometimes I’ll say, that feels so generic.

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Jodi Murnick: Let’s start over, right? Obviously, you’d never say that to a person.

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Brynne Tillman: Yes.

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Brynne Tillman: I can’t say I haven’t said that to a person, but you’re right, right. There’s a lot, right, and I love that that thought is, you don’t have… you don’t have to have empathy.

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Brynne Tillman: To get what you need, like, just, you just say it, so there’s no filters.

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Brynne Tillman: Which is awesome, so I, I agree with that. And I think that’s amazing. So I do want the B question to this. How are you teaching your students to use it?

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Jodi Murnick: So it’s really the same idea, right? So, like, they’ll… I can’t tell you how many students I’ll say, first of all, in college, I noticed the relationship with AI is tricky.

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Jodi Murnick: Right? There’s still a lot of schools that really tell them, don’t use AI.

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Jodi Murnick: And…

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Jodi Murnick: And it’s hard, because they are terrified that their cover letters and resumes and LinkedIn profiles are gonna be run through AI, and they’re gonna be, like, seen as a fraud.

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Jodi Murnick: And what I really teach them is, you’re right, if you go with the first generic answer that ChatGPT gives you, that’s what it’s gonna look like. But if you workshop it this way, so it’s yours.

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Jodi Murnick: And you’re using it to think through. So, like, for example, writing a cover letter. To me, a good cover letter is a combination of

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Jodi Murnick: a good framework, which I give them, I give them my cover letter template, a good framework, their resume.

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Jodi Murnick: And the job description.

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Jodi Murnick: Because it should outline who I am, What my experience…

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Jodi Murnick: brings to this position, right? What I’ve done before that will help me, help you this summer.

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Jodi Murnick: and what I’m gonna get out of this internship. What I hope to learn, and how it’s gonna help me.

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Jodi Murnick: So, basically, the, why do I want this?

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Jodi Murnick: Right? And I put that… I tell them, upload those 3 things.

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Jodi Murnick: into whatever AI platform you like.

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Jodi Murnick: And ask it to help you write a cover letter by asking you questions, one at a time, not making any assumptions, so that this cover letter is really engaging to the hiring manager at this company.

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Jodi Murnick: I want… and sometimes I’ll even say something like, I want them to feel…

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Jodi Murnick: Like, this job is my top choice.

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Brynne Tillman: Oh, I love that!

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Jodi Murnick: And so… so you’re at… because AI doesn’t feel anything, right? So you need to give it human feeling. And so then we’ll talk through, and they’re like, oh, that’s not how I do it.

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Jodi Murnick: And I’m like, I know, that’s why, that’s why, that’s why we’re working together, I’m gonna teach you how to do it. And next time you won’t… because they’ll tell me, well, I took, I spent 3 hours writing a cover letter.

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Jodi Murnick: And then, like, no cover letters take you 3 hours.

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Jodi Murnick: Unless you really couldn’t decide why you wanted to work there.

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Brynne Tillman: And then you probably.

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Jodi Murnick: And then maybe…

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Brynne Tillman: Not at all.

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Jodi Murnick: Back off, right? Maybe back off. But, you know, if you do this, I said, your cover letter writing should take maybe 30 minutes, probably less. You know, once you start training.

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Jodi Murnick: chat, it’s gonna start to know, or whichever one you use, it’s gonna start to know all of these things, and your results are gonna get better and better. But that’s the kind of prompt I use. It’s not technical at all. It’s very human, which I love.

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Jodi Murnick: And even sometimes when I’m not getting what I want, I’ll say, this, this feels like it’s not working, I’m not getting what I want.

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Jodi Murnick: help me, what do you… how can I prompt you differently? To get… so it’ll start to give me ideas.

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Jodi Murnick: And I’ll say, okay, let’s try that, right? You have to kind of feel around with it. But to me, that’s so fun, because I know the nugget of what I want here

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Jodi Murnick: Sometimes it’s just hard to articulate it in a way, and truthfully, here’s the other problem. For my students, and honestly for me on LinkedIn, there’s two audiences. There’s a human audience, right? The people that are reading the LinkedIn, and the people that are reading their cover letters and resumes, and the AI audience that’s screening it.

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Jodi Murnick: And so, that marriage of human and AI is tricky.

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Jodi Murnick: So, I need a cover letter and a resume that’s gonna get through all the AI…

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Brynne Tillman: bots.

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Jodi Murnick: Get through the book today.

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Brynne Tillman: person.

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Jodi Murnick: But when it lands on the human.

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Jodi Murnick: I need it to sound human.

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Jodi Murnick: So, we’re, like, weaving a little bit of, like, a, you know…

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Brynne Tillman: It’s a big order! Yeah, it’s a good.

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Jodi Murnick: Quarter!

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: So that’s great, and I love that you give them that framework, right? Like…

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Brynne Tillman: And you’re not… the other side is you’re pushing them to be interviewed. So it’s not, here’s the cover letter, here’s my resume, the cover letter template, here’s my resume, here’s the job description, write it.

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Brynne Tillman: It’s like, here’s all the information, now interview me.

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Jodi Murnick: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: So my voice comes into it. I think that’s awesome.

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Brynne Tillman: You know, that kind of leads into…

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Brynne Tillman: so many people, the young people you work with, the people that I work with.

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Brynne Tillman: They are so concerned that AI is going to strip them of their voice, and their… the authenticity, and so…

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Brynne Tillman: Talk to me a little bit, I mean, we touched on this interview… interview me piece, but what…

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Brynne Tillman: What are some things that you, when you talk with your students, or even in doing your own business, that we haven’t talked about yet, that ensures that your voice stays intact? Like, do you use custom instructions? Like, what do you use?

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Jodi Murnick: I mean, I think it’s that I use my voice, right? Like, I am so direct. I am sure there’s nobody on the planet who prompts exactly like I do, because it’s literally like I talk.

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Jodi Murnick: And that’s really what I encourage the students to do, too. I am so myself. I am probably more myself with AI than I am even with other humans, because there is literally no filter.

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Jodi Murnick: I just get to be me.

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Jodi Murnick: And I say… and I tell my students, like, you tell it everything. You could even say, I’m feeling anxious about this. I think I’m not fully qualified for this job. This is a stretch.

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Jodi Murnick: Right? Help me write a cover letter that feels authentic.

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Jodi Murnick: and doesn’t oversell me, but sells me enough. Because I’m feeling like maybe I’m not qualified.

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Jodi Murnick: And to me, that kind of stuff is, like, that is the most human feeling there is, right? Imposter syndrome. You’re putting it out there, and I do the sam

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Jodi Murnick: You know, sometimes when I have a client that I’m not sure, that they feel like they feel stuck.

00:19:02.140 –> 00:19:18.909
Jodi Murnick: Before a session, I might sit with one of the AI tools and say, I’ve been working with this client for a few weeks, and they seem stuck on this spot. Here’s the things I’m trying to get around it, or here’s the stories we’ve been working on. This is where they’re stuck.

00:19:19.470 –> 00:19:22.970
Jodi Murnick: Help me think of other ways that we might be able to get around it.

00:19:24.850 –> 00:19:38.279
Jodi Murnick: Yeah, that’s… so it becomes your thinking partner, not your… It’s just my thinking partner. It helps me be more human, right? Because I’m thinking of different ways, what have I not looked at? Where am I stuck in this? That if I get unstuck, I can help them get unstuck?

00:19:38.990 –> 00:19:44.439
Brynne Tillman: Fabulous. So I literally talk to AI, and I’ve named it Bubba.

00:19:44.580 –> 00:20:02.639
Brynne Tillman: I’m a Bubby, but my grandbaby used to call me Bubba before she could say Bubby, so it became my AI, and now it tells them bedtime stories when they’re here, but that’s a story for another day. It does. It knows Stella and Nora. Hello, Stella and Nora! Welcome back to Bubby’s house! Like, it’s crazy, but…

00:20:02.790 –> 00:20:09.940
Brynne Tillman: on the professional level, I will just talk, because I talk much faster than I can type.

00:20:10.160 –> 00:20:15.079
Brynne Tillman: And, and because it’s synced to my computer.

00:20:15.410 –> 00:20:25.260
Brynne Tillman: everything I just talked to, that whole conversation, I can now go back to my computer and it’s there. So I love that, and I think for students that

00:20:25.960 –> 00:20:36.250
Brynne Tillman: want to have the conversation, but the typing could feel so work-driven or overwhelming. The conversation is great.

00:20:36.700 –> 00:20:39.170
Jodi Murnick: So, I have a conversation, but I type it.

00:20:39.540 –> 00:20:40.060
Brynne Tillman: I, you know?

00:20:40.060 –> 00:20:44.940
Jodi Murnick: And I was just thinking of this as you said this, and I think the reason I type it, I also am a fast talker.

00:20:45.140 –> 00:20:47.590
Jodi Murnick: And I think very rapidly.

00:20:47.770 –> 00:20:54.800
Jodi Murnick: And verbally. And I think sometimes for me, writing it down helps me slow my head down.

00:20:54.960 –> 00:20:58.559
Jodi Murnick: So I can think through what I want to say.

00:20:58.810 –> 00:20:59.560
Brynne Tillman: Interesting.

00:20:59.560 –> 00:21:14.069
Jodi Murnick: and a better way. So for me, typing, I actually think, helps me slow it down a smidge and get my thoughts out better. When I try and do it verbally, I find myself getting a little lost in my thoughts. Like, I’m talking faster than my brain can move.

00:21:14.920 –> 00:21:24.620
Jodi Murnick: And I need to, especially if I’m trying to think through something. So, I don’t know. There’s… listen, the cool thing is there’s so many ways to… to make this work for you. It’s like.

00:21:24.620 –> 00:21:25.060
Brynne Tillman: Yeah.

00:21:25.060 –> 00:21:26.960
Jodi Murnick: customizable.

00:21:27.380 –> 00:21:31.330
Brynne Tillman: I love that. It is, and it just gets better and better and better.

00:21:31.430 –> 00:21:39.049
Brynne Tillman: So, talk to me a little bit… you’re very intentional about LinkedIn and…

00:21:39.420 –> 00:21:51.220
Brynne Tillman: You know, we talked a little bit about your analytics and what you’re doing, but how are you creating the content, and what do you recommend to your students when it comes to content?

00:21:51.960 –> 00:21:55.159
Jodi Murnick: These are very different questions. Okay, so…

00:21:55.160 –> 00:21:56.430
Brynne Tillman: A and B!

00:21:56.430 –> 00:22:09.310
Jodi Murnick: Well, the heart of both of them is authenticity, right? So, my framework for networking in general, and I’m actually starting to think it might just be, like, relationships big picture, is curiosity.

00:22:09.590 –> 00:22:13.319
Jodi Murnick: Authenticity, generosity, and follow-up.

00:22:13.530 –> 00:22:27.379
Jodi Murnick: It basically works for every networking thing you’re gonna do. So, as I think about, my LinkedIn post for the week, the first thing I’m doing is what was interesting to me about the students I worked with this week.

00:22:27.740 –> 00:22:31.460
Jodi Murnick: Right? Like, what moments… what moments made me think?

00:22:31.650 –> 00:22:32.700
Jodi Murnick: Like, huh

00:22:33.030 –> 00:22:39.479
Jodi Murnick: Because I figure those are the things… listen, I’m in it all day long, those are the things that are gonna resonate most.

00:22:39.630 –> 00:22:55.819
Jodi Murnick: with my audience. And my audience is, like, multifaceted, right? My audience is professionals who have young adults in their lives that are going through this, so they’re, like, professionals and parents, they’re wearing two hats. The young adults who have started following me, students.

00:22:55.950 –> 00:23:12.290
Jodi Murnick: And recent grads, and HR professionals, career center professionals, so there’s, like, that whole ecosystem, too. And so I’m really conscious about who I’m trying to serve with the post, and what I’m trying to do with it.

00:23:12.490 –> 00:23:20.409
Jodi Murnick: So, that’s sort of my mind frame as I go into it. So, it’s curiosity, and then authenticity. There’s times where I’ve posted things.

00:23:23.930 –> 00:23:27.719
Jodi Murnick: there’s times where I’ve posted things, and I’ve thought, like.

00:23:28.070 –> 00:23:47.630
Jodi Murnick: this feels, like, not 100% locked in, or it feels like I’m trying to do something, like, get a point across that’s not really there, and so, you know, I’m careful there. And then generosity, I feel like I’m share… I’m trying to share things that are worthwhile, that add value, right? They’re infinitely actionable.

00:23:47.630 –> 00:23:57.650
Jodi Murnick: Because that’s how I’m building my brand. And I think of this like a brand manager, right? This is my brand. And there’s times where I’ll start to write something, and I will think, that’s not on brand for me.

00:23:57.950 –> 00:24:06.619
Jodi Murnick: And I really am trying to be more intentional the more I do this on dialing that back. Even when they’re, like, fun, interesting things, if they’re not on brand for me.

00:24:06.760 –> 00:24:19.980
Jodi Murnick: then I really don’t put them on LinkedIn. That’s not the place for them, for me. And I… so I talk to my students the same way, about their LinkedIn page, their profile, is like their brand’s homepage.

00:24:20.290 –> 00:24:30.729
Jodi Murnick: Right? I should be able to tell from that profile, sort of who you are and what you stand for, and what you’re interested in. And who you are cannot be junior at Syracuse University.

00:24:30.870 –> 00:24:37.490
Jodi Murnick: Because that is not, like, that is not a market. Nobody is searching for a junior at Syracuse University.

00:24:37.880 –> 00:24:41.300
Brynne Tillman: So… When they get there, that doesn’t excite them!

00:24:41.300 –> 00:24:49.989
Jodi Murnick: I want you to tell me what, like, you’re trying to sell the value of working with you in the future.

00:24:50.230 –> 00:24:53.770
Jodi Murnick: Somebody said to me once, the value of your future self.

00:24:54.050 –> 00:24:58.350
Jodi Murnick: So, help me see that future self in that headline.

00:24:58.720 –> 00:25:13.910
Jodi Murnick: Right? I’m an aspiring journalist, interested in these three topics, I don’t know. Or, you know, I’m an emerging business leader, focused on

00:25:14.400 –> 00:25:30.199
Jodi Murnick: international markets and fashion. I don’t know. Like, anything. But, like, give me something interesting, right? Give me some meat to bite into. And then, take your About section, and make it, like, a story. It should basically be, like, that whole, walk me through your resume.

00:25:30.610 –> 00:25:37.589
Jodi Murnick: Your About section should be that narrative. I mean, not verbatim, but you know what I mean. If I don’t scroll past your About section.

00:25:38.010 –> 00:25:44.149
Jodi Murnick: I’ve got the gist of what you’ve done, and what you bring to the table, and why I’d want to talk to you.

00:25:44.380 –> 00:25:48.090
Brynne Tillman: And your passion and your vision of your life in there, too.

00:25:48.090 –> 00:25:48.860
Jodi Murnick: Really?

00:25:48.860 –> 00:25:49.390
Brynne Tillman: That’s…

00:25:49.390 –> 00:26:03.079
Jodi Murnick: Each of the… each of the experiences, I don’t need to know that you, like, came in at 4 o’clock and, like, filled in spreadsheets all day long. Why did they hire you? So, like, I was telling a student today, we were talking, he said, you know, if you worked at Haagen-Dazs.

00:26:04.290 –> 00:26:06.110
Jodi Murnick: And you were an ice cream scooper.

00:26:06.680 –> 00:26:28.950
Jodi Murnick: you know, saying that I scooped ice cream all day long is kind of boring, but if you say, I was hired to make sure that customers had a really great experience while they were in Haagen-Dazs, the way that I did that was I greeted them with a smile, I let them try lots of different flavors and made sure they got exactly what they wanted, and I made sure they left feeling like they were really seen.

00:26:29.410 –> 00:26:30.520
Brynne Tillman: Mmm…

00:26:30.690 –> 00:26:38.069
Jodi Murnick: And the result was… that my Haagen-Dazs was one of the top performers in our neighborhood.

00:26:38.310 –> 00:26:46.469
Jodi Murnick: And, and I learned… That customers will come back when they feel seen.

00:26:46.870 –> 00:26:49.439
Jodi Murnick: And the way that I made them feel seen was really effective.

00:26:50.660 –> 00:26:52.070
Brynne Tillman: That’s brilliant!

00:26:52.580 –> 00:26:55.479
Brynne Tillman: I worked at Friendly’s Ice Cream, so I get it.

00:26:56.570 –> 00:26:57.070
Jodi Murnick: Yeah

00:26:57.080 –> 00:26:58.919
Brynne Tillman: It doesn’t even exist anymore.

00:26:59.330 –> 00:27:09.299
Brynne Tillman: But no, I love that, I love that, and it was… it was your connection with the humans. It’s not that I could scoop a good ice cream. So, I love that.

00:27:10.320 –> 00:27:30.319
Brynne Tillman: We’re probably over time already, I’ve had so much time, but I really do want to ask you, because most of our listeners are in the sales and marketing world, and from your perspective of sales and marketing and coaching, what do professionals still get wrong about selling, especially now that AI is part of that equation?

00:27:31.900 –> 00:27:38.399
Jodi Murnick: I don’t know how much AI has to do with this, but what I think salespeople have been getting wrong since the beginning of time…

00:27:38.750 –> 00:27:40.499
Jodi Murnick: Is it’s not about you.

00:27:41.670 –> 00:27:48.579
Jodi Murnick: Right? Like, it’s… the meat of a good networking… so a networking call is essentially a sales call.

00:27:48.820 –> 00:28:01.009
Jodi Murnick: Right? If I’m having a networking call with you, it’s essentially a sales call, but I’m there to learn. I’m not there to impress you with anything I’ve done. Sort of like I’ve… it’s sort of like a sales call where I come in and I, like, feature Sal.

00:28:02.270 –> 00:28:11.140
Jodi Murnick: Right? Like, have you seen this… have you seen this coffee cup? It keeps things cold or hot for hours, and blah blah blah blah blah, and it’s like…

00:28:11.140 –> 00:28:12.990
Brynne Tillman: So does every other cup in the industry.

00:28:12.990 –> 00:28:19.130
Jodi Murnick: And it’s lightweight, and it’s beautifully designed, and all of these things. Before I even know, you don’t drink coffee.

00:28:19.800 –> 00:28:21.490
Brynne Tillman: Oh, I love that.

00:28:21.490 –> 00:28:40.059
Jodi Murnick: You know, like, let me learn about you before I’m trying to, like, throw anything down your throat. And so what I find in… I mean, listen, salespeople are terribly guilty of it, of getting into the sales call, verbal, because they get nervous, we all do, right? The stakes are high, the stakes are high, you wanna… you wanna get the sale.

00:28:40.150 –> 00:28:48.570
Jodi Murnick: Especially if it’s been a while since you got a sale, then you’re really feeling it. And, and you go in and you talk too much.

00:28:48.720 –> 00:28:51.630
Jodi Murnick: Right? And you’re talking all about you.

00:28:51.760 –> 00:29:10.490
Jodi Murnick: And instead, I’m not coming in and saying, hey Bran, I’m a career coach. I work with college students and their families, and I help them to, you know, optimize their job search and build confidence so they go into the real world feeling capable and resilient and resourceful.

00:29:10.710 –> 00:29:19.150
Jodi Murnick: But what I’m really interested in, I saw your profile, what I’m really interested in is all the work you do on LinkedIn. What have you seen with young adults on LinkedIn?

00:29:20.030 –> 00:29:21.099
Brynne Tillman: I love that.

00:29:21.100 –> 00:29:27.869
Jodi Murnick: And that is literally the end of me talking about me. And I could spend the next 25 minutes with you, and we don’t go back to me.

00:29:28.190 –> 00:29:28.719
Jodi Murnick: It’s also.

00:29:28.720 –> 00:29:32.830
Brynne Tillman: The aha moment in this, I think that’s brilliant.

00:29:33.180 –> 00:29:40.539
Brynne Tillman: when you start with, tell me all about you, and you haven’t said anything about, you know, suffice it.

00:29:40.670 –> 00:30:00.089
Brynne Tillman: Jody, nice to meet you. Tell me about what you do, and you don’t know what I do yet, or who I am. You don’t even know how to relate what you do to me. Right. But if I go into all about me first, and then you feel like you don’t matter to me, so what you did…

00:30:00.130 –> 00:30:11.830
Brynne Tillman: is truly brilliant, which is, here’s the 30 seconds about me, so you have enough that when you talk about what you do, you can relate to who I am.

00:30:11.830 –> 00:30:16.460
Jodi Murnick: I think it also builds just a smidge of trust, right? Like, I’m telling you enough about me.

00:30:16.710 –> 00:30:18.820
Jodi Murnick: To, like, give you something.

00:30:19.090 –> 00:30:23.209
Jodi Murnick: Right? And it helps you understand the context of why I want to talk to you.

00:30:23.740 –> 00:30:24.340
Brynne Tillman: Yeah.

00:30:24.340 –> 00:30:28.509
Jodi Murnick: Right? So, like, you get that I’m… I’m sort of showing you I really am interested.

00:30:29.130 –> 00:30:38.369
Jodi Murnick: I’m kind of giving you the proof, right? Here’s the proof, this is why I’m interested. What I’m specifically interested in is the work you do on LinkedIn and with AI.

00:30:39.520 –> 00:30:42.429
Jodi Murnick: You know, tell me more. I’m here to learn.

00:30:43.120 –> 00:30:53.630
Jodi Murnick: And I think so many salespeople come in with, like, they think they know the answers, and I’ve been guilty of it myself so many times. When I was selling advertising, I was trying to sell a website to Bert’s.

00:30:53.630 –> 00:30:55.990
Brynne Tillman: You want a quarter page or a full page? Do I…

00:30:55.990 –> 00:30:58.379
Jodi Murnick: Right? Let’s get you a photo gallery on there.

00:30:58.620 –> 00:31:03.120
Jodi Murnick: And and you know, you have to, like, slow down.

00:31:04.190 –> 00:31:09.519
Brynne Tillman: Yeah. Well… I have so enjoyed this,

00:31:10.350 –> 00:31:14.950
Brynne Tillman: Before we start to wrap this up, is there a question I should have asked you that I didn’t?

00:31:15.950 –> 00:31:23.829
Jodi Murnick: you know, I don’t know, we talked about so many things. I think one of the things that, you know, I’m not sure we talked about is…

00:31:24.610 –> 00:31:28.880
Jodi Murnick: You know, what people get wrong about AI when they’re trying to grow?

00:31:29.850 –> 00:31:35.149
Jodi Murnick: And when they’re trying to, whether it’s grow your career, Or grow your business.

00:31:36.350 –> 00:31:41.070
Jodi Murnick: I think… I think sometimes it’s like, you know, it’s a tool.

00:31:42.060 –> 00:31:43.930
Jodi Murnick: It’s like any other tool.

00:31:44.610 –> 00:31:48.830
Jodi Murnick: you could give me the greatest tool ever, but if I don’t know how to use it…

00:31:49.500 –> 00:32:08.589
Jodi Murnick: like, it might as well just be a hammer, right? Like, I can just smack things with it, but it… but, like, a hammer approach, you know, with a very precise tool is really not what you want. And I think that piece of it, and that what people get wrong, is they just go at it so bluntly.

00:32:09.430 –> 00:32:16.549
Jodi Murnick: And they don’t take the time to… to slow down and be intentional about it. I also think there’s a lot of fear in it.

00:32:16.830 –> 00:32:27.569
Jodi Murnick: I see a lot of fear with AI. Whether I’m working with older people or younger people, there’s this concern of, like, what’s it gonna do with your information?

00:32:28.220 –> 00:32:38.289
Jodi Murnick: And a lot of people will say that to me, and I’ve said, well, to me, I’m publishing the information, literally. I’m putting it on LinkedIn, or I’m putting it out there.

00:32:38.290 –> 00:32:56.809
Jodi Murnick: who’s, like, going looking on the internet for my thinking? Or looking on… I don’t know where else, on the… out in the cloud somewhere, wherever AI things get dumped. That shows you how technical I am. Wherever AI things live. I don’t know who’s going looking for it, but I’m not putting anything out there. It’s like, I’m not telling it my social security number.

00:32:57.480 –> 00:32:59.210
Brynne Tillman: Which they know already, anyway.

00:32:59.210 –> 00:33:04.420
Jodi Murnick: Which they, you know, anything, anything is findable. I, I just think the fear is… is… is a lot.

00:33:04.420 –> 00:33:12.920
Brynne Tillman: Yeah. Like, I have an Alexa and a Google in my house. I have Siri on my phone. They know everything already.

00:33:13.040 –> 00:33:22.849
Brynne Tillman: They just do, so we just have to go, alright, they know. So, you know, unless you’ve committed a felon that no one’s caught you.

00:33:22.940 –> 00:33:30.090
Brynne Tillman: Like, just… just be okay. They just know it already. They… everyone knows it’s out there.

00:33:30.140 –> 00:33:45.469
Brynne Tillman: Elon has every inch of your bank accounts and your socials… they have it! It’s out there. And it’s all connected to his satellites. So, stop worrying, because it’s already out there. So now just go enjoy.

00:33:45.510 –> 00:33:53.380
Brynne Tillman: But one of my favorite lines that I just want to bring up, a newer favorite line, was, I watched Top Gun Maverick.

00:33:53.710 –> 00:33:55.150
Brynne Tillman: And one…

00:33:55.150 –> 00:33:55.980
Jodi Murnick: Thank you for me.

00:33:55.980 –> 00:34:02.820
Brynne Tillman: It was a great movie. It was better than the first one, and I never say that about a second movie, but… best line.

00:34:02.990 –> 00:34:06.110
Brynne Tillman: It’s not the airplane, it’s the pilot.

00:34:06.980 –> 00:34:09.259
Jodi Murnick: That’s a good one! That’s a very good one for this.

00:34:09.260 –> 00:34:14.560
Brynne Tillman: Right? It’s exactly right. It’s not the AI, it’s who’s driving it. So…

00:34:14.940 –> 00:34:17.829
Brynne Tillman: Jody, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

00:34:18.030 –> 00:34:35.449
Brynne Tillman: So, I am… the value you brought to the sales community is amazing, but if there are parents out there that are like, you know what, I got this college kid, and I don’t know what’s gonna happen when he graduates, and I don’t know where she’s headed, and they want to talk to you, how do they get ahold of you?

00:34:35.880 –> 00:34:45.319
Jodi Murnick: There’s a couple ways. They should definitely follow… they should connect to me and follow me on LinkedIn. They should… my website is my name, Jodimernick.com.

00:34:45.409 –> 00:34:49.310
Brynne Tillman: And there’s a link there, they can set up a free discovery call with me.

00:34:49.639 –> 00:34:59.480
Jodi Murnick: That’s really the best way, and then my email address and all my other contact is there as well. But really, the best way is to set up a discovery call with me through my website.

00:34:59.770 –> 00:35:07.880
Brynne Tillman: I love it. Thank you so much. Really some… I just had so much fun. I felt like we were just hanging out, and that’s my favorite kind of podcast.

00:35:07.880 –> 00:35:10.189
Jodi Murnick: This was great, thank you so much for having me.

00:35:10.190 –> 00:35:14.800
Brynne Tillman: Thanks, thanks for… for coming… coming by. Great to see you two days in a row.

00:35:15.060 –> 00:35:15.450
Jodi Murnick: Totally.

00:35:15.450 –> 00:35:27.360
Brynne Tillman: And then, so to all of our listeners, I am sure that if you’ve got these, even high schoolers, that you want to get a hold, you know, get them started early.

00:35:27.360 –> 00:35:41.410
Brynne Tillman: or college kids, or even graduates that are struggling to find that first job, please reach out to Jody. She is a wealth of knowledge. Even if you don’t hire her, there’s so much that she has that you’ll get so much value from.

00:35:41.770 –> 00:35:51.399
Brynne Tillman: And as I close this out, I… to all of our listeners, when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.