Episode 104: Bill Zipp – Grow Your Sales Organizations by Discovering Your “Whys”

Bill Zipp  00:00

Making it social means it’s about people. It’s about the relationship. It’s about connecting with people and really caring, not just doing these empty little kind of techniques or gimmicks to try to get people to do things. And so I’m really passionate about people connecting with people.

Bob Woods  00:19

Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast! Featuring the top voices in sales and marketing. Join hosts, Brynne Tillman and Bill McCormick, as they discuss the best tips and strategies they are teaching their clients. So you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Here are your hosts Brynne Tillman and Bill McCormick.

Bill McCormick  00:56

Welcome to Making Sales Social. I’m Bill McCormick.

Brynne Tillman  00:59

I’m Brynne Tillman.

Bill McCormick  01:00

Brynne, who’s joining us today?

Brynne Tillman  01:02

I am so excited to have my friend Bill Zipp, we met probably, I would say maybe two years ago-ish. And apparently, I found out today that he was stalking me for some time reading my content, buying my stuff. And then at one point when he was ready for some LinkedIn help, he reached out, and we had a blast working together. And so Bill, welcome to Making Sales Social.

Bill Zipp  01:28

Thank you! It’s good to be here. Thanks. It’s fun to have this connection again.

Brynne Tillman  01:31

Yeah. So tell everyone a little bit about you and who you serve. 

Bill Zipp  01:35

So I work with sales leaders, I help them grow their sales organizations, you know, I see double-digit growth to help sales leaders achieve that. Because that’s a lot of what the demands are in the marketplace now, not just small growth, but big growth year over year, double-digit, but I take a really different approach to it a real people-first approach to performance in that way that growth sustains.

Brynne Tillman  02:00

That’s awesome. And you are the author of The Ultimate Sales Manager Playbook, just share a little bit about that.

Bill Zipp  02:07

The Ultimate Sales Manager Playbook came out this year. And it’s for sales leaders and their teams and it just gives them a real hands-on super practical way of leading their teams to success.

Bill McCormick  02:21

I can’t wait to get into this topic because it’s near and dear to my heart but before we can get into that, let’s start with our first question. Bill, we ask all of our guests, what is making sales social mean to you?

Bill Zipp  02:32

Well, see, I take a people-first approach to leadership. And so making it social means it’s about people. It’s about the relationship. It’s about connecting with people and really caring, not just doing these empty little kind of techniques or gimmicks to try to get people to do things. And so I’m really passionate about people connecting with people.

Brynne Tillman  02:55

I love that. So I have a couple of questions where I want to start. I want to get to the playbook in a little while. But some of the things like that we had discussed when we were working together, that really resonated and still kind of stick in my head. I want to bring up. One of them is you talk about how to motivate your salespeople through “Why” talk a little bit about that.

Bill Zipp  03:18

Yeah, so I think sales leaders go astray when they press the More button and they’re constantly pressed, we need more deals, we need more meetings, we need more appointments and more leads, and then more hire and more headcount. And all that outside-in pressure actually doesn’t work, the more button is broken. And ultimately, what it’ll do is it’ll completely backfire on you. 

And that’s not how human beings are motivated. It’s not how salespeople are motivated. We are motivated not from the outside in, but from the inside out. And so in the book, we start right here with motivation, not mobilization, not more and more and more, but what’s your why? why do you do what you do? Why do you wake up in the morning? Why do you sell? and I really help leaders, let’s have these conversations, let’s find this stuff out. And let’s do it because purpose drives passion, and when there’s passion, you get this outstanding performance. And so that’s the starting point. And that’s kind of what I mean by a people-first approach to performance. It’s starting in the soul of your sellers and not by hitting them more button, more, more, more, more…

Brynne Tillman  04:37

So I love that when you identify certain “Whys” so maybe it’s you know, what are some… first of I will…maybe I’ll just ask you, what are some Whys that are identified and then how can a sales manager motivate to an individual why?

Bill Zipp  04:52

Yeah, so I talked about there are four why’s most people are in sales. They’re there for fortune, they’re there for fame. They’re there for family or freedom. And so for fortunate, it’s money, they did the math in it and it’s the best job for the most money, but not there. Although there are salespeople who are exclusively motivated by fortune or money. There are few, usually it’s what money means. 

And so they’re salespeople motivated by the fame, the recognition, that status, the love of being on the leaderboard. And others, it’s the freedom they can not imagine doing a normal nine to five jobs stuck in a cubicle. And then others it’s about the family, they know that the very best way to support their family and fulfill the goals for their family is through sales. 

And so I say we have a major and a minor, we tend to have one of those that really drive us like you were pointing at yourself freedom. It’s freedom and family, freedom and family. So we have a major and a minor. And so I really encourage sales leaders to have these open and honest conversations, What’s your why? what’s your freedom and family? And then you ask the question, how do you individualize it? you hook it into something they’re dreaming about in the future?

Brynne Tillman  06:17

Hmmm… I love that. Another area that probably feeds into is the one on ones that you talk about. Yeah, and you have a five-step right, there’s five steps to one on one. And I’m sure that Why comes into that conversation.

Bill Zipp  06:35

Yeah, the Why will be in that vision for the future, what’s a big dream you have for the future. Once you know these things, you just weave that into your one on one like you would, you know, like you would in a fabric or a cloth. You just, that’s the threads you weave through the one-on-one. But the single most important thing that drives results is regular, consistent, effective one on ones. And it’s just the blocking and tackling of sales, leadership success. And so few people do them well.

Brynne Tillman 07:09

What goes into a good one-on-one? 

Bill Zipp 07:10

Well, you have to start with the agenda, you need to know what you’re going to talk about. And it’s not performance management, it’s not even deal reviews. Deal review should be out. It should be what the development goals are for the reps. And that’s what you talk about development goals, it’s so very important because that is how reps get better. And that one on one becomes something that makes them stronger and stronger and stronger every week.

Brynne Tillman  07:42

That’s awesome. I love that. Another thing that you talk a lot about, and I know Bill, I’m sure you’ll pop in soon, (Bill: I will, I’m waiting… I’m buying my time)I’m like, I’m so excited about this conversation. You talk a lot about having a healthy sales organization and what that looks like. And I believe you have five points around that.

Bill Zipp  08:02

Yes. But the healthy sales organizations, they’re the kind of place you would work if you’re a salesman is this the kind of place you would work would you want to be part of this organization?  if you had to choose to. On top of that there’s a joy and energy, there’s a passion that’s there. And also, you’re hitting golf, you’re making goals you’re hitting goal, you’re at performance, and you’re above goal performance. And then the healthy organization becomes a magnet for pulling in other sales reps, especially in this war for talent that all of us are experiencing right now. 

The sales organizations I’m working with that are doing so well. People are coming to them and they’re staying because it’s a fun place to work, it’s a super successful place to work, and where all the leaders and the salespeople are on the same page. 

Brynne Tillman  09:01

And that’s our goal, we really Bill and I really focus on creating a place where like our staff, they’re just thrilled to be here, that they know how much we appreciate them. And then they appreciate us.

Bill Zipp  09:19

And that’s super smart. Because when people have joy at work, you end up with all this discretionary effort that they’re going to give you, and then that that flows into revenue generation and client satisfaction and repeat customers and, so  it’s not one or the other. You don’t have to choose to be nice and hitting your number or hitting your number and being nice. You can do both at the same time and healthy organizations do that and it takes leadership to do that.

Brynne Tillman  09:51

You have two more, right and then there’s two more on the five right? (Bill: Oh, you’re gonna have to, you’re gonna have to)  double-digit, top line revenue. (Bill:Yes, yes, yes, yes) sellers having fun.

Bill Zipp  10:03

Yes, sellers having fun. And the growth most of the sales organizations I work with has been asked to have double-digit growth. And so that being able to drive top-line revenue, year after year 10, sometimes 20 and 30%, that private equity firms coming in and wanting invest in this, but they need to see in two or three years, that double-digit year after year growth, very common working or private equity, or even the market wants to see this for a market capitalized company.

Bill McCormick  10:38

All right, so it’s my turn, I don’t want to burst the bubble but you mentioned healthy leadership. And one of the things I can see a sales leader listening to saying, well, that’d be great if I could do that. But the problem is, is my CRO, or my CEO, or my whoever COO is on me. And they don’t care about I mean, they care about people, but they don’t. But really what they care about the people is those people represent a number. And that number represents a bottom line, because they’re reporting to a board of directors that are saying, “Hey, the stock price like that’s number right? or mathematically, right?”. And so so this sounds great. And I love it. How do you translate? So if you’re working with sales leadership, how do you translate that into the higher level leaders to say, “Listen, we need to look at the whole person, because I think that’s really what you’re discussing is really more of a holistic approach to salespeople, rather than just their the number of producers.

Bill Zipp  11:40

So the strategy is simple, you hit your number, and you reach or exceed your number, not by being a jerk, not by using people as interchangeable parts, but by learning their deep why see a purpose drives passion. And when you really know that deep purpose, these salespeople will run over one through brick walls for you. And so that purpose drives their passion. And so I tell sales, frontline sales managers, or manager of managers that are stuck in the middle and not exactly to the CEO, CRO or CRO Number, use these principles and crush your number, and then you get the attention of the CRO you get the attention of the CEO. And because it’s not a false alternative, care for people and hit your number. When you care for people, you will hit your number, and they will produce 110, 115, 150% of goal, then you get the attention of your CRO How did you do that? Well, I found their why. And I had regular one on ones. And we and we move the ball down the field day in and day out. So that becomes now your platform. And that becomes your authority in a larger organization. And frankly, I’ve seen that happen again and again and again with the leaders that I’ve worked with. 

Bill McCormick  13:07

All right, I’m convinced that that was great, that was a great answer because I love it. Like I said I love the idea. But I can just see that disconnect, but you’re right, you have to know that the leader has to take the lead and has to do it. So, so talk a little bit more about the playbook about the book, I’m very interested in hearing more because I’m gonna go by it.

Bill Zipp  13:30

Okay, good. I’m gonna send it to you for free. But now that you said you’re gonna buy it, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you’re gonna have to go to Amazon. The Playbook has three sections to it, motivate, mobilize and multiply. And it takes an inside-out approach to sales leadership. And we start as Brynne and I chatted, we start with the why we start with motivation. Even before the why we start with the who trust then motivation and creating this motivating contact where your sales lead, your salespeople will walk over burning coals for you then you move to mobilize which is about coaching, which is about goal setting, which is about deal management and the actual blocking and tackling of sales that you move into mobilize and then multiply hiring, promoting and retaining your people and then keeping yourself from derailing because hiring salespeople is unlike hiring anyone else and so it goes from the inside out from to motivate them to mobilize, to mobilize to multiply three or four chapters each section and then it is a playbook. So every chapter has a worksheet where you sit down and you work through all the stuff of the chapter and complete it and get better doing it.

Brynne Tillman  14:52

So I am you know really in love with this leadership mentality. Most So far, man, we have many listeners that are sales leaders. Many of them are in sales they are. And they’re challenged with their leader. So which Bill mentioned, the leader challenged with the C suite? sales people are often challenged with the leaders. Do you have any advice for managing up?

Bill Zipp  15:21

Yeah. So I think the key thing on managing up is assuming best intent. If we, if we make our managers and the C suite of villains, and we’re victims, already, you’ve poisoned the conversation. All right, I find nine out of 10, maybe 99 times out of 100. My manager above me and a manager above them are just like me, decent human beings trying to do their best work. Sure, there’s, there are bad people out there, I get it. I’m not Pollyanna. But most of the people I work with, and your manager, they’re decent human beings, trying to do their best work in very challenging circumstances. 

So one, you’re going to manage up, assume best intent, start at a place of grace, believe the best in them, and then have a conversation, but start believing the best don’t be a victim, and they’re a villain. Because that right away, you poison the conversation, start in a place of grace and begin to talk about the things that motivate you, that help you that mobilize you. And little by little, you will see change.

Bill McCormick  16:38

Yeah, okay, because we’re all on the same team, right, we’re all trying to get to the same, you know, it kind of be like to use the playbook analogy, you know, the defensive team, actually getting on the field and tackling the offensive team for the other defense like it doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense, and it goes against so I often say, you know, people who use the term give people the benefit of the doubt know, give people the benefit of belief, give them the benefit of belief. So I love how that starts. And so if I’m not a sales leader, if I’m just a normal salesperson, which there’s nothing normal about salesperson, and I got a hold. So but if I got a hold of this book, I could I self lead myself with this book, could I use that to lead myself?

Bill Zipp  17:27

Some of the things you could do the chapter on why would be really, really important, you can discover which of the four F’s drive you and then having a vision that comes out of that. So the self-leadership can come in the in the Why section of some of the chapters on setting process goals, not performance goals, and the critical, important difference between a process goal and a performance goal, setting process goals for yourself. 

Also, there’s a chapter in the book, I have not found this anywhere else in any literature. It’s an assessment I wrote that you can take to find out if you should be an individual contributor or a sales manager. Many, many salespeople feel like the next logical step is sales management. And it’s not, they are two entirely different jobs. 

And so I have an assessment there. It’s in chapter 11. It’s on the promotion, where you can go through it as a sales rep and see, should I continue to be an individual contributor? Or should I step into management? What do you love? What do you love and what’s your lifestyle? is the basic fundamental of that and I so I have 10 or so questions, and you can find out whether or not management is for you before you ruin your life. 

Brynne Tillman  18:56

And it’s interesting, because my career path, I was always a producer and a trainer. I was never in fact, the moment Bill stepped in and partnered with me in the business. He’s the head of sales. I’m like he, like it is absolutely the wrong place for me to I can manage the company, but managing salespeople, that’s a whole other animal.

 Bill Zipp  19:25

No, it is and I think it’s extremely wise of you to be self-aware about that. And to know what you can do and to answer Bill’s question that chapter, you know, could really, really help a sales rep know whether or not the typical trajectory of sales, sales management, head of sales is for you. Because if it’s not, don’t go there, be self-aware

Brynne Tillman  19:49

Consider training. It’s an alternative that…

Bill Zipp  19:53

trainings are just one that you just sell for the rest of your life become a millionaire at 40 He’s good at sales. Why would you do anything else? I don’t get it all I don’t, you know, (Brynne:good point) I’m being facetious but I know a lot of guys and gals that have done

Bill McCormick  20:11

Yeah. Well, and you know, as Jim Jim Collins said, in Good to Great, you know, it’s important to have the right people on the bus, but it’s even more important to have the people, the people on the bus in the right seats on the bus.

Bill Zipp  20:21

So should you be in the sales manager’s seat? Exactly, chapter 11.

Bill McCormick  20:25

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, this has been really good. And me and my big mouth once again got me in trouble. If I would just have not said anything, I’d have a free book coming, you’d have it now. I’m about to go over to Amazon. So that’s what you should be doing. Hold up the book one more time for everyone to see. So it’s The Ultimate Sales Manager Playbook. So you want to make sure you check that out in Amazon. So Bill, it’s been great being with you. Thanks so much. How can folks connect with you and stay in touch with you?

Bill Zipp  20:56

It’s really, really simple. I have a great name, Bill Zipp, Z-I-P-P, so go to billzipp.com. It’s as simple as that. I have a YouTube channel as well, but it is not. It’s Bill Zipp On Sale. So, unfortunately, I do not have the YouTube name Bill Zipp. I have a YouTube channel where I have a whole bunch of videos on motivation. About seven of them there on motivation, go through things like sales comp, and you know, other things like that. So go to YouTube, and check out the videos, but you can start at the website billzipp.com

Bill McCormick  21:34

That so much better than Billmccormick.com. Just it’s just not the same.

Brynne Tillman  21:39

Bill spices…

Bill McCormick  21:42

Yeah, yeah. People always ask me if I’m related. And I said if I were related, I wouldn’t be doing this. Yeah. Yeah. So you’re working with Brynne then? Yeah, exactly. But who knows? But, yeah, but it would be spicier anyway…enough with the dad jokes. Thanks so much, Bill. It’s been great having you. Listen, if you’re listening, make sure you go and check out Bill’s book. And thanks once again for listening another week. And don’t forget as you’re out and about this week, don’t forget to make your sales social. We’ll see you next time everyone. Bye bye.

Brynne Tillman  22:15

Bye

Bob Woods  22:16

Thanks for watching and join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales, training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart to the subscribe button below to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast. Give this video a thumbs up and comment down below on what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com for more information.