Episode 115: Harry Spaight – Selling With Dignity
Harry Spaight joins the LinkedIn Sherpa Bob Woods to talk about how people can be dignified with their sales approach and get out of that ABC, or always be closing, mentality.
Listen as they discuss whether artificial intelligence can bring dignity to sales and what its role would be in the near future. They also touch on the importance of prioritizing the results and not the metrics, because that’s where the real value in business is.
Visit Harry’s website at http://harryspaight.com/ to know more about what he does. You can also reach out to him via email or connect with him on LinkedIn and on Twitter.
Harry Spaight 0:00
Treat people with respect. They have challenges, they want to work with somebody that actually cares about them. And they see us. They know what we’re after and when we actually show we care, actually concerned about their welfare, the welfare of their company, and let them make a decision to buy versus trying to close. Then we’re bringing sales into a dignified world.
Bob Woods 0:28
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies. Our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.
Welcome to Making Sales Social. I’m Bob Woods, chief marketing officer at Social Sales Link, where we train and coach both individuals and sales teams on converting connections to sales conversations through the power of LinkedIn without being salesy. And I think our mission of not being salesy while using social is important not only in general but specifically with what our guest this week both teaches and really believes in.
His name is Harry Spaight. And he’s all about selling with dignity, which also happens to be the name of his book and we’ll talk about that a little later in today’s episode. So as sales pros, our desire is to build relationships and to have clients for life, or you know, it should be. However, we as salespeople don’t seem to have time to do this anymore because we become very focused on sales and numbers and all that junk while missing the important part, which is people. After all companies don’t buy, people buy.
The primary objective is to provide value for our prospects and customers. So Harry Spaight, our guest today, says now is the time to change your approach and direct it towards building a positive relationship and serving customers, clients, whatever you want or whatever your company calls them. The sales will follow, which is something we say and wholeheartedly believe in at Social Sales Link too. It’s always good to speak with someone who’s really in sync with what we do. So Harry, welcome to Making Sales Social.
Harry Spaight 2:23
Oh, my goodness, Bob, we are so aligned, I think you could finish writing or finish my sentences while I’m speaking. And I mean it’s great, I just love it. This is exactly what you said. So social selling, I can’t wait to get into that topic because I had such a bad understanding of what that was. (Bob: Okay.) And I’ve learned over the years, so I’m looking to learn and if I can provide value for you and your listeners, I’m happy to do so my friend.
Bob Woods 2:55
I have no doubt that there’s going to be all kinds of value delivered in today’s episode. This is going to be fun. So, let’s get started. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, Harry.
Harry Spaight 3:07
Sure. I mean, I’ve got a very interesting background for two people in the world, my wife would be one of them, and one of my three kids maybe. So I wasn’t always in sales. So a lot of people who do what I’m doing right is helping others be in sales. They were born and raised around sales, and they got into sales right out of college, became trainers and started businesses.
Well, first of all, I didn’t go to college. Out of high school, I decided that I wanted to become more spiritual and I became a missionary. And with that lifestyle, I ended up spending the next 15 or so years, being a missionary and my wife and I, eventually, we met, got married, we lived a couple of years in the Dominican Republic. So I take a lot of those experiences from the mission world and apply them to sales. So I come in sales, come to sales, really coming from a place of serving others and that’s really what the whole book is about, that’s what I’m about. It’s all about serving. So what’s your thought on that craziness?
Bob Woods 4:16
Yeah, so it’s funny you say that because my my dad is a manufacturer’s rep. So he was definitely in sales. I actually started out in journalism before eventually moving to marketing and then sales, in the sales and marketing thing that I have going on now. But with journalism, I always say that so many of those journalism skills transfer over to sales and it sounds like that you’ve kind of done the same thing with that idea of serving customers because you serve people in a very different way yet there’s a lot of really great ideas that can easily be brought over to and I guess that that leads into my next question. So, in coming up with this, with this whole selling with dignity idea and what you do, was there was there ever a big aha! moment for you? Or was this kind of like a building thing, especially as you moved over to sales? And you started really getting involved with them?
Harry Spaight 5:20
Yeah, I mean, so coming from the mission field, so this, I’ll try not to make this a long, long answer but coming from the mission field, I was introduced to a sales bullpen and to me, there is nothing more out of place, you know, you can use fish out of water, you can come up with the expression, but come up with a missionary in a sales bullpen is about as far out of place as I was. So if you guys, if you’ve ever seen a movie like Wolf of Wall Street, The Boiler Room or like Glengarry Glen Ross, you name it. I was into, so, I didn’t swear since high school. Okay, so here I was, now in my mid-30s, I’m being reintroduced the words I haven’t used in over 15 years and they were just commonplace. And so you know, not that it’s a bad thing, I’m not against swearing. I mean, I’m a big fan of Gary Vee. Right? It’s the message, right? And I get past the language so I’m not offended at all, but it did take a little getting used to. So, I was failing miserably in the sales bullpen. I mean I was so out of place, I didn’t know, I have no business acumen. I struggled and after several months of zeros and zeros, and I’ve got the big scoreboards on each end of the bullpen, there’s my name on the bottom of the scoreboard next to a big fat zero, right. So, I knew zeros were not good. So, one day on the way home after several months of this, I say not, I, this is not working. I’ve got to go back to my roots.
I was a big fan of The Greatest Salesman in the World. (Bob: Yeah.) And, are you familiar with it? (Bob: Yes, very.) Right, with the 10 scrolls. One of the scrolls is I will greet each day with love in my heart, something along those lines. And that’s where I was, I was so naive, right? So hungry, and the world would love. They’re like, what are you closing, Harry? So I say, “No, I’m going to go back to this place of serving and see if I can make a success out of it.”
So that was the start of really selling with dignity coming from a place of service. And so it was a long career. But that’s really how it started. Just (unintelligible), yeah. Does that answer the question? Or… (crosstalk)
Bob Woods 7:53
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So I mean, there what? Because it seems like sometimes, you know, people have a huge aha! moment. And they just kind of take off from there. And that’s, and that’s like a key moment in their in their career, and quite frankly, in their life, too. And I think that especially with you, you can say that it was a big moment now. (Harry: Oh, my goodness…) (crosstalk) spirit within your life.
Harry Spaight 8:14
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it just totally changed. I mean, from going to the point of quitting and saying this wasn’t for me — even though I wasn’t going to quit — they probably would have fired me. But I would have kept it up with the zeros for too much longer. Right, in sales, zeros are not good. So you’re familiar, the greatest salesman in the world? (Bob: Yes.) Like, so, can I ask what you got out of that book?
Bob Woods 8:39
Yeah, just I mean, just that it’s, well, it’s been a long time since I’ve read it but I do think that anyone who was a salesperson should read that because it just, you know, just that idea of actually serving and something that we’re going to talk about in a little bit just in terms of removing, almost removing yourself and your needs from the equation, so that you can really help someone who really does need help. And you know that your product services or whatever can deliver and really help that person. And just how do you communicate that so that you could serve them essentially?
Harry Spaight 9:22
Absolutely. That’s great. Yeah. So even though they haven’t read it, it’s like we lived it. Right. We haven’t read it in a while, I mean. (Bob: Yeah, exactly.) You end up living if they strike a chord with you.
Bob Woods 9:32
Yeah, exactly. And I think that a lot of people may just kind of stumble into this without really reading the book and are actually living the book without knowing that they’re living the book, basically. So… (Harry: Exactly. That’s so true.) And I’m not talking about the finger snappers and the hey… you know…
Harry Spaight 9:50
The “always be closing” types.
Bob Woods 9:53
Yeah. ABC, close ‘em like a garage door. Yeah. Yeah, like that. That type of thing.
Harry Spaight 9:59
I just got the chills on that. No, please, no, that’s not me.
Bob Woods 10:06
That’s funny. That’s great. So speaking of ABC and closing like a garage door, one of the things that you say is that people can be or salespeople, rather, can be dignified with their approach. How do they achieve that and get out of that ABC mentality?
Harry Spaight 10:26
Yeah. So I think it really becomes just viewing the person across from you as a regular human being a person that has a family, struggles in life, values, they’re probably best friends with somebody, and we just treat them like a, you know, a commission. We, in general, in sales, right? We just want their money. I remember listening to their conversations, on off his movies, sales trainers, somebody’s saying, “You have the money, we want it,” right. That was really the mindset and it’s just like, that is so disrespectful of people, that sales.
And Anthony Iannarino, I’m sure you’re familiar with him. He talks about, sales is not something you do to somebody, it’s what you do for somebody. I wish I read Anthony’s book years ago, but it’s relatively new. But the concept is there, right? Treat people with respect. They have challenges. They want to work with somebody that actually cares about them. And they see us. They, I mean, we, you know, Larry Levine talks about commission breath. (Bob: Yeah.) They can smell it, they see us, they know what we’re after. And when we actually show we care, right, that we’re actually concerned about their welfare, the welfare of their company, and let them make a decision to buy versus trying to close, then we’re bringing sales into a dignified world where we’re out to help and serve and they reciprocate because they see that. They say, you know, this Bob Woods guy, I want to work with him because he genuinely cares about my business. What’s your take on that, Bob?
Bob Woods 12:19
Yeah, that’s huge. I mean, yeah. So I mean, I think the whole idea of letting someone, letting the prospect come to their own conclusion that this is something that they need, rather than trying to cram it on (unintelligible), ABC is, you know, is I think, key. And I think that one of the reasons why people are so turned off when sales, when they’re just dealing with salespeople in general, is because they have the mindset that the salesperson is going to be (unintelligible) close, close, close. And I think that when a salesperson comes from the mindset where you’re talking about, and quite frankly, what we talked about, too, it makes us as those other types of salespeople really stand out. And hopefully, they will see that and they’ll want to do with business with us, not just because we have a great product or service but because of us, and because of the type of people that we are.
Harry Spaight 13:18
Right. So I liken it to and I totally agree, right? So I liken it to the doctor, right? You can go to a doctor that is the best, has the best reputation, most knowledgeable, this doctor knows everything and has zero bedside manner. Right? So we’ve been there, right? We know those (crosstalk), zero bedside manner. And so we want to hang out with them, or do we want to go find the country doctor that will get up in the middle of the night, come to our home, right? May not have the Harvard degree but it’s like the people that care are the ones we want to be around. Right? Is that kind of the way you feel about sales?
Bob Woods 13:58
Absolutely. 100%. I mean, I’ve had a couple of doctors like that too. And it’s like, I gotta go back in and see this, this doc, again, who you know, but they’re really good, but you want to have a mix of both and I think that that’s what’s really important.
So with that, secondly, there’s another statement of yours that I like and it really resonates, I think, with a lot of people out there that, nowadays, a lot of companies, especially medium- and larger-sized companies, view their salespeople as, you know, robots who literally, mechanically call, mechanically email, and there’s little to no relationship building going on there.
To me, it seems like companies are trying to tie in sales metrics directly into close sales way too much with too little room to maneuver. So like 100, you know, 100 calls, 100 outreach, which should equal this, which should equal this, which should equal close sales. How can selling with dignity and empathy work within those metrics, or do they work within them?1
Harry Spaight 15:02
Yeah, man, I’m not a big fan of metrics. I mean, I get the fact that businesses they want to know and should know if the people they’re investing in sales are doing the work. Right? I get that. Don’t, I’m not saying that you should just not manage them. And you shouldn’t have any idea, right? But I mean, I use this example in the past, where I was constantly being asked about metrics, and our team was hitting numbers. And we were doing very well. But the metrics, overcame the results, right, the metrics became more important than the results. And so I was, you know, VP of sales, I’m a guy that rolls up the sleeves, I want to be out in the field with my people. That’s who I am right now, I come from this place of service. I was getting calls in the middle of the day, to know, to give a report on what the metrics were. And I’m like, “That’s not what I’m getting paid for, right?” You want me to go out and produce, help these people produce, you know, build up our client base, and all that. Well, eventually got to the point where the metrics won. And Harry Spaight, I actually thought that sales was going down by the wayside, that robots just all be part of AI. And no one would need to have any skills. That’s where I was thinking sales was going. Thankfully, all right, did you have similar thoughts or I see some nodding going on here.
Bob Woods 16:35
The whole AI thing is just another can of worms that I still see coming. But you know, can AI build a relationship? I, you know, I mean, it can, it can spit out scripts, it can, you know, use that artificial intelligence to potentially guide a conversation or whatever you want to call it towards, you know, towards a certain thing, but but but can it really build a relationship? Can it really bring dignity to the sale? And I don’t know,
Harry Spaight 17:05
I think the answer is no. (crosstalk) …right. I mean, I think there’s value in some, as long as we’re working on the relationship. So getting back to your question is that I would look at people who hit their numbers and had very poor metrics, versus people that hit the metrics number had poor results. And so the question is, what would you rather have? Right? Would you rather have results with relevant metrics? And you know, the answer is, well, I’d rather have metrics and results. (Bob: Yeah, that’s [unintelligible].) Of course, right? But you’re in sales, you’ve got to look at the animals that we are.
In general, we’re people, people, we’re not students. I mean, not that, I’m not saying that’s an excuse but we’re not people that love spreadsheets and data. We want to be in front of people, we want to be in the mix, right? We like to dress a certain way. We like to laugh, we’d like to have camaraderie, we want that whole social experience going on.
And you have those people versus the people, just very analytical, just want to dot every I, that will clean out every email in their inbox, right? They’ll mark them all as red, they’ll delete them, it’ll be perfect. Don’t have perfect emails, no sales results. Right? I will take the people with the sales results. And I think any business owner would take the sales results over the clean inbox, right? No questions there. So how does that translate? So you’re looking at two very different types of people. Is there a way we can make the person who is hitting numbers results-wise, to be better with the metrics, maybe provide a little guidance? Maybe a virtual assistant, maybe somebody to help with the metrics part because a person is working, right? They don’t have to make 100 calls a week to get their numbers. Why are they successful? What do they know? Versus the person that’s just pounding the phone? Everyone’s, sales is a numbers game to these people, I get passionate. So, I’m sorry, right? When I hear sales is a numbers game, it’s like I can be deaf, dumb and blind, probably not the best expressions anymore but I just say the same thing over and over again expecting to hit a number and it just doesn’t work, right? Bad is bad.
Bob Woods 19:42
Yep, definition of insanity. (Harry: Yeah, exactly.)
Harry Spaight 19:45
So I know, I know, you agree with me on this. Tell me what’s your thought on this, Bob?
Bob Woods 19:53
…just I mean, I don’t think I really need to make an additional comment there because everything you said was 100% spot on there. 100%, Harry.
Harry Spaight 20:02
…right? (Bob: So, um…) I’m sorry. So (unintelligible) little bit, I would take the winners, the results. Again, I’d be the people that are hitting the results and celebrate them. Right, even though it’s, you know, it goes against the norm about the numbers, but it’s going to show people that are just number-conscious that the real value in the business is the results. Right? It’s the sales. So, we’ve got to be better at that. So let’s celebrate that type of person that is great on the results, and ask them to work with the numbers people to help with simple things like showing empathy, why are they successful? Give some sales guidance, right? No, let them teach something in like a sales training or something that is, that works in harmony with what the goals are of the business. But at the end of the day, people are hiring salespeople to produce results, not to produce metrics, right. And so that’s where Sally with dignity fits in. It’s getting better at the skills and the empathy so that our tone, right, the things that we do now become more relatable to people versus mechanical. And everything about metrics is mechanical, unfortunately.
Bob Woods 21:38
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So um, so why don’t you take us through that process, just really, really quick on, and maybe calling it a process isn’t the right thing, but you know, selling with dignity, developing what salespeople need to do, to sell with dignity, while at the same time selling, I guess, is probably the best way to put it.
Harry Spaight 22:03
Yeah, I mean, so selling with dignity definitely has a process. It’s like every other sales process in general, except that you are now coming from a place of serving. So much of sales is mindset, right? Okay. So people who are in sales will recognize things like, you’ve got to be up, you’ve got to be positive. If you’re negative, then people are going to recognize that they’re going to sense the negativity. So we get all of that in sales.
I’m venturing to say, people got me over the years, and they get a lot of other people when they come from a place of serving. Just like the doctor with a good bedside manner. That stuff, people get early on, there’s a connection that goes on. So all along the way in the sales process, I suggest, is that you find the human connection. You pick up the tones, you ask someone for 60 seconds, you know, to make your call. If they hesitate, if you start, you have a little banter, you say, “I promise this will not be a life and death experience.” Right? You have some fun with it. You show your humanity, you recognize that when people are busy, and they say, “Look Harry, I’m really busy.” We don’t try to talk through that. We say, “I get it, I understand what busy is like. I’ve been busy before. When is a good time to follow up? Will later today at three o’clock be okay?”
And by saying that, getting the person off the hook, giving them a chance is better than trying to overcome a rejection, an objection where the person is legitimately busy. So there are different things that people can do that show the human element, right? So if you walked up to someone on the street, or wherever you’re in a restaurant, you name it. You’re having a conversation, someone says, “Look, I’m really busy.” and they look at you like, don’t talk to me. Well, okay, I get you, I’m going to go next. And then just but the way I feel that we can still work in sales, is ask when is a good time to follow up. Because now we’re showing that we’re listening, we recognize they’re busy, and we’re being polite. And I think personally, I’ve had more success than with those types and that way than just let me just plow through it knowing that you’re really busy and really disrupt your day.
Bob Woods 24:37
Harry Spaight 24:38
What’s your… I know that’s different. So,
Bob Woods 24:41
No, I think it definitely fits in great. What I’m imagining right now is someone who is saying to themselves, “Well, I’m already like that,” you know, “I’m dignified in my approach.” I you know, I have dignity, but yet and I’m sure you talk to these people all the time, but when you talk to them when you’re dealing with them, you’re thinking to yourself, yeah, you’re really not like this and I know that you’re not like this even though that you think that you are. How do you deal with that? With those people? Who think they are but they’re really not.
Harry Spaight 25:14
Right? Yes. So you have, because nobody wants to admit and say that they’re not selling with dignity, right? Oh, I love the title of the book, we’re on like that, I’m already like that. So I don’t need to read the book. And it’s like, fine, you know, and, you know, it’s like, I’m already perfect. And I don’t need to, like read anymore either. So and, you know, some people said, I know all of this, when they’ve read the book, there’s nothing new. And it’s like, okay, that’s fine, you probably not, for me.
The thing that I’m looking for is always to be a little bit better. I get excited, at my age, that I still want to be better. I want to be a better dad, I want to be a better husband, I want to be a better sales leader. I want to be a better, you know, contributor to the community, you name it, I’m looking to be better. Some people just aren’t, they’re all set, they’re all set. And they can say whatever they want. This is not for them. It’s for the people who truly want to be better, and to be a better person. Right? So my hidden message, Bob, in selling with dignity, is you can’t sell with dignity if you’re not living with dignity.
My whole, big, spiritual mission purpose in life, is to show that sales, treating others with dignity is living with dignity. So I’ll give you an example. Somebody will say, I’m a great listener. So when they’re listening to me, they want to interrupt, they won’t let me finish. They want to argue, right? They don’t get the whole let me come from where Harry is. Let me be empathetic and say no, is Harry, is his background different? Because Harry clearly things different than I am. Is it different? Should I try to listen coming from Harry’s perspective, or whoever you’re talking to? Right? Whether that be our kids, whether it be someone we work with, someone that reports to us, we just expect that they get it because we do. And we listen and say, Yeah, you’re wrong, we’re gonna do it this way, clap our hands and just say, let’s go, alright, get on board or get up.
And I got to admit, I’ve had those conversations where that’s where I, that was my reaction. But in life, you have to get better. And it’s like, well, that doesn’t go over well all the time. So let me try coming from where they are and finding out where they are, you know, like, an example I use is, maybe I was born, and we have a 100-chapter book. And maybe I was born, and I automatically was on chapter 20. Someone else was born, they’re on chapter 73 because they’re incredible parents, great operating, and so forth. Someone else is going to be in chapter three. So for order for the person that was born in chapter three, kind of raised by wolves, a little humor, but you know, whatever their difference of the background is, in order for them to get to chapter 20, it’s like moving mountains. In order for me to get from chapter 20 to chapter 73, it’s moving mountains, I may not relate to the person who was in chapter 90 and gets everything. So they have to, when they say something to me, in order for them to be empathetic, they have to understand where I’m coming from.
So when people say, I’m a good listener, what they’re really saying, in general, is I hear words, I hear noises, right? I see dead people. I mean, it’s comedy when someone says, I’m a good listener, because nobody who is a good listener, says, I’m a good listener. Right? We say, we need to be better. We’re always looking to be better. I can’t tell you how many times I interrupt people, and then I go, I’m still not there, right? So that’s just one example where people will say, I’ve got it. And then the others are, you know, I closed this person took a ton of money and made a ton of profit. It’s like, yeah, it’s all selling with dignity, right? (crosstalk) Exact opposite, right? It’s not what we’re talking about. So that’s kind of where I’m at. I let people grow and they’re not, they’re not in the same chapter I’m in. And maybe one day they’ll pass me but I just take it with a smile and say, you know what, keep learning, right? That’s the message.
Bob Woods 29:47
Absolutely. And you just mentioned, you know, closing and get to the close and everything. But there are ways that salespeople can help after the sale as well. Well, I’m wonder if you get into that a little.
Speaker 1 30:02
Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you asking that is when I, I’m not sure if you’ve seen this once or twice, but people talk about, “I want my customers to love me.” After the sale, what happens? What happens is sales rep post-sale to acquire a new customer, right? The move on, right? And in fact, the customer will say, I remember hearing this because I again, I didn’t come from the sales world, right? I was anti-salesperson. So people would say to me, like, “What are you doing? You already made the sale!” Customers were saying this to me, “What are you doing? You already made the sale? Why are you here?” I said, “because I want to make sure everything goes perfectly. I want you guys to adjust to whatever it is that I was selling, and love it.” Right? I didn’t know anything about creating raving fans. I just felt like I wanted them to really enjoy the investment they made.
So, post-sale, a simple thing is not calling and saying how’s everything. Everything’s fine. People are gonna say that right? But you’re not going to create raving fans by calling and asking how everything is. Go there, bring some pizzas, you know, bring some bagels, light up the room, you know, thank people for the business, go around, if you’re selling whatever that other people are using it, ask what they need? How can you make the experience better? What questions have come up? That is going to create raving fans, right? And so, you know, other things like you’re big into social selling, right? And I can’t wait as we have this conversation, I tell people all the time, is how are you providing value to your customers after they bought? And I said what are they doing on LinkedIn? How can you provide a value on LinkedIn? It’s like, I don’t know, I could tell him I’m selling something else. Like, you know, just comment under post, just comment four words. Thank you Harry Spaight for — that’s six words. Thank you Harry Spaight for your post. That provides traction with, so people who are posting, they want someone to come under posts. So the algorithms get things moving, right? Isn’t that what you guys teach?
Bob Woods 32:29
100%. One hundred percent.
Harry Spaight 32:32
A simple thing to provide value and I find out most salespeople are like, are you connected to your clients? No, they don’t accept my invitation. (Bob: I wonder why.) How about follow them? You can comment on their followers, right? But if they don’t accept your invitation, that’s because they think, what? What do they think? That you’re just gonna sell more crap to them? And that’s not what they want. (Bob: Exactly.) Yeah. So the simple things are, you know, post-sale follow-up, make it a great experience, and then event, I’d say visit the business recommend the business on social media. So much you can do that provides value, and people are gonna look at you and say, “This Bob Woods guy is a genuine fan.” (Bob: Yeah.) What’s your take?
Bob Woods 33:19
Easier to make a fan when you are already a fan and I think that that definitely gets proven out here. And then if you’re commenting on something, it helps even more to like, you know, identify something in the post that you agree with, maybe even ask a question based on the posts, or if they link to an article or, or something like that. I mean, thank yous are good, don’t get me wrong but if you want to take things, even that one step deeper, that’s a really good way to do it. And it really doesn’t take a lot more time. Besides, you’re already typing thank you into the box, you might as well you know, just add that little bit of extra thing. It’ll take what 30 seconds to do. So it really doesn’t take a lot more time to really interact.
And maybe it will start a conversation within the post that can lead to another phone call about something different, you know, I mean, you just never know. It’s all about conversations and selling with dignity. People are going to want to talk to you more than likely and let’s say they, you know, unless their personality just isn’t like that. But most people aren’t like that. They will want to talk with someone who they like and because you’re selling with dignity, you should be in that position already.
Harry Spaight 34:32
Yeah. I mean, if someone is posting, they’ll probably want to speak right, especially about the topic. Again, providing value could be, “I love the message that you just put out and I want to better understand it so I can maybe help promote it.” I mean, you may not but at least have the conversation and shows that you’re not. I mean, what’s that, a 10-minute conversation. It doesn’t have to be an hour. Few minutes just and you know, maybe it’s a little back and forth on the DM but you’re now showing genuine and don’t fake it.
Bob Woods 35:11
They will know when you’re faking it. I mean, anyone will know when you’re faking it.
Harry Spaight 35:15
Exactly. Yeah, ‘cause I mean, that just comes out. But if you’re, you genuinely care about people and I think sometimes people struggle with that, because they don’t genuinely care. So what do you do in that situation? What’s your thought on that when people who are in sales or in business don’t necessarily care about other people, how, what do you say to them or…
Bob Woods 35:39
Just try to find any type of commonality that you might have with someone else, and that’s going to take some questions. And that’s definitely going to take a little bit of talking to, but if you do it in that genuine, dignified way to really find, you know, at least one commonality, that will make future conversations a lot easier, and then you’ll just gradually start to care, because you have the commonality, something that you care about and the other person cares about.
Harry Spaight 36:08
Yeah, exactly. And I think of people who say, Well, I’m not really a people person. And you know, they’d much rather just hide behind emails, never answer the phone if they didn’t have to. But even in conversations with these people, I say, “What do you like about sales?” And they’ll say, “Well, I like helping people.” Right? So they may not be people, people per se but they’ll still say, I like helping people. Once you say that, you may not love people, but look for ways that you can help them. And sometimes it’s just getting out of our comfort zone and being polite and asking them a question about what’s important to them is helping too. It’s not just being a great customer service. (Bob: Yeah.)
Bob Woods 36:53
And that can be the commonality right there, too. So, speaking of all these general types of things, if you can give us just one success that you’ve had, with a client, you know, considering everything that we’ve just been talking about…
Harry Spaight 37:09
Yeah, I mean, I’ve worked with people who make calls and they do a lot of outbound calls. And, you know, there’s a lot of, it’s not always the most comfortable thing to do for a living. Right, but I worked with a person recently, and just coming from the mindset of, we’re here to serve, we don’t need to sell on the first call, make it so that the next call is better. Make it so that the third call will be even better. So instead of trying to close for a meeting on the first appointment, build better relationships on the first call. Instead of trying to close our meeting on the first call, start laying a foundation where trust can be built so that the next call, so that I look at calls as appointments. I don’t look at calls as something separate as inferior to an appointment. The appointment is like the ultimate, you need more appointments. (Bob: Yeah, with so many people.)
Well, that first conversation is incredibly important and then the second one, so when do you, do you want to dismiss those and just say only the appointments count when you could be building a huge funnel of great conversations? And it changed the person’s outlook completely under outbound calling. So I mean, the results, I can’t measure the results yet. But what I can measure is that the person’s outlook on the job changed dramatically, because now every conversation became valuable, right, versus only the ones that closed with an appointment. And then the trust is built, the follow-up, emails are being sent, thanking people for the time they gave us versus years ago, we went to, you know, like, if I didn’t get an appointment on somebody with a phone call, I felt like it was a lost call. Now we see the value in that the relationship is starting to be built, even when someone’s not interested. But being respectful, sending a message, thanking them, you know, providing some value maybe in connecting with them or following them on LinkedIn. There’s a lot, especially if it’s a targeted account. There’s a lot of good that can come from that. What’s your thought on this one, Bob?
Bob Woods 39:40
It is, that’s amazing. All that was just absolutely amazing. And you’re right. I mean, it’s, the one thing that I got out of that was you know, everyone’s thinking about, you know, booking the meeting, booking the meeting. Well, follow up phone calls before a meeting is, are just as important. So I mean, you know, people put meetings way up here and call way down here, there’s got to be much more of an equilibrium there because calls build relationships. And then obviously, you know, the actual meeting can take things to the next level. But if you don’t have the work, or whatever you want to call it before the next level, the meeting is not going to be as good.
Harry Spaight 40:22
Yeah, exactly. And then you’re, I think that if you have the right perspective of it, that your funnel, right, sales funnel, whatever you want to call it, your foundation for future conversations, just keeps getting better and better versus one and done, not interested, next, not interested in, see, that’s where the mechanical sales is a number game fits in, and having conversation with someone that thought that way and then turning it around saying, look, this first call, and the second call are extremely valuable, because that’s an account that may take three years to get in. And we still want to get in in three years. But we can’t wait for three years and call them and expect to get in. Right. So this is a labor of love to some degree. Right? And if we treat it right, then good things — I always believe you do things the right way with the right motives, good things will happen.
Bob Woods 41:22
That is a perfect way to end the conversation. That’s just amazing. So your book Selling with Dignity, your formula for life-changing sales results? Tell us a little bit more about that, about the book, obviously, I think we’ve we’ve talked a decent amount about what’s in the book already but why don’t you just give us a little more detail on that?
Harry Spaight 41:46
Yeah. So the book, thank you for asking. The book has got 26 chapters of the everyday things that we need in sales. Where do we come from in the first place? What kind of place is it taking or giving, you know, to starting conversations to be an empathetic listener, to not being afraid to asking for the business. Having, you know, positive attitudes about yourself, getting rid of dead weight inside of your mind, right, you know, where there’s negativity and negative people. So all of these things, I feel like people could pretty much open the book. And the way I wrote it is that they’re short chapters, you could open the book and this way, I like to sometimes get a spark, and just turn to a page and say, “I needed that,” right, “I’m going to be a better empathetic listener,” or “I’m going to listen, watch this story, that Harry talks about where he was in the Dominican Republic and people were offering him fruit juice made out of river water, and people were getting sick with amoebas.” And my peers were saying, “No, I can’t drink your gift, because it makes me sick.” I learned that saying that does not really, that’s not empathetic, right, you’re rejecting someone’s gift. So I made, I took that and had some fun with it, and learned how to speak better with tact and tie that into sales.
So I take all of these stories that I’ve learned in the mission field, and said, you know, there’s a sales story here. And so that’s what the book is, it ties in the whole giving survey mindset with actual stories and bringing it into the world of sales. And I 100% believe you put this stuff into practice, even the simple things about being an empathetic listener, your life will be better, and your sales will be better.
Bob Woods 43:45
So if you want all that, and I really don’t know why you wouldn’t, but if you want all that, hopefully you do, you can go to HarrySpaight.com. That’s Harry and then S-P-A-I-G-H-T.com. And you can order Selling With Dignity: Your Formula for Life Changing Sales Results, you can order it directly from the website. So Harry, this was amazing. Thank you so much for your time. We really, really appreciate it.
Harry Spaight 44:12
Man, you guys are doing great work, Bob Woods. The whole social selling thing is a big part of selling with dignity. Right? Yeah, we should touch on that more but by all means, this is a big part of your life and I, in sales and in business is the social aspect and make sure that you’re listening in on what Bob is teaching and give his podcast some reviews, five stars, reviews, (Crosstalk).
Bob Woods 44:47
So I just I want to thank you for streaming this episode of Making Sales Social. And remember when you’re out and about this week, be sure to make your sales social, and because of this episode, we’re going to change that to make your sales social and with dignity. Thank you.
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