Episode 199: Chris Goegan – From Dreaming to Achieving: Empowering Business Owners to Scale and Succeed

Chris Goegan  00:02

Making the Sales Social like when I think of when I hear that sales shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be mechanical. It shouldn’t be forced and shouldn’t be scripted. It should be relaxed and you should really enjoy it like the person you’re selling to, you should really enjoy it. And that should be a wonderful enjoyable experience for you and for them.

Intro  00:21

Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast featuring the Top Voices in Sales, Marketing and Business join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods. As we each bring you the best tips and strategies. Our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show!

Brynne Tillman  00:46

Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I’m Brynne Tillman, and I am here today with Chris Goegan, the Founder of Engineered Growth Systems. He has helped entrepreneurs go from six to seven, even eight-plus figures, and give them more time and more freedom with his Engineered Growth System and Engineered Marketing. 

There are only three growth systems separating you from the business that you want. On a personal note, Chris loves sports, the outdoors, and as he’s originally from Canada, so he speaks a little funny. I love Canadian accents. He’s married and has four kids that won’t stop growing up, Chris, Welcome to the show!

Chris Goegan  01:30

Hey, Thanks for having me here, Brynne.

Brynne Tillman  01:32

I’m thrilled to have you here. And I’m really excited to talk about how you are helping business owners scale, Right? The ones that are stuck, that are on a plateau, that have been doing well enough, but not growing, and I’m excited to talk about that.

Chris Goegan  01:50

What and well enough gets painful. I like it if you’re there for too long but continue. 

Brynne Tillman  01:56

So well. I want to talk all about that great stuff.  We do. I mean, He has one question that we ask all of our guests, What does Making Sales Social mean to you? 

Chris Goegan  02:07

Oh, jeez! That’s a tough one. I should ask you that, you know, you’re the expert on social selling. But for me, It’s making the sale social, like when I think of when I hear that sales should be, It shouldn’t be mechanical, It shouldn’t be forced, It shouldn’t be scripted, It should be relaxed, and you should really enjoy it like the person you’re selling to, you should really enjoy it. And that should be a wonderful, enjoyable experience for you. And for them.

Brynne Tillman  02:32

I love that. I don’t know that we’ve gotten that answer in our over 180 episodes. So that’s pretty cool. That’s a good one. Maybe we have, I just forgot, but I like it. I like it a lot. So all right, let’s go back to the three core growth systems separating business owners from the success that they dream of.

Chris Goegan  02:51

Because usually, to get businesses off the ground, It takes a whole heck of a lot of work, as you know, to get past six figures, you know, you say yes to anything and everything. Because you need to for cash flow. But then kind of once you start getting past, like, six figures into like, you know, 150-200 Multiple, like low multiple, six figures, can you get a chance to breathe a little bit? And then and then you’ll look at okay, well, don’t as some people just want to stay there. And that’s fine. 

But for people that want to go on wanting that next level of growth, you gotta you got to look at things a little bit differently, you know, what got you here, won’t get you there. And, so you got to replicate yourself and take what you do so well. And then and then have systems built to do that. And like my good friend, Michael Gerber. He’s got this really simplistic model, he talks about the three-legged stool. And you know, where you got the three legs are lead generation, lead conversion, and client fulfillment. 

Gotta get leads, close leads and deliver on the leads. And if you have a three-legged stool, if anyone’s legs are gone that stool topples, Right? So, when we’re looking at systems like, overall it’s like, there’s MARKETING SYSTEM sales systems and fulfillment systems. Now understandably, there’s more systems than that. 

But you gotta find a way to systematize those two, take yourself out of the one doing it, doing it doing it being the magic everywhere, like where if you don’t do anything, nothing happens. Pull yourself out from being the magic and have systems and people like to do that. You know, like, instead of you doing it.

Brynne Tillman  04:30

I love that and I happen to be a huge fan of the E Myth. I think it’s amazing. So that’s Michael Gerber and is a lot of what you do based on the E Myth and before you answer that, my big like, you know 40,000 view takeaway of the E Myth is if I went on vacation for six months would my business run wouldn’t have all the steps and the processes to run and so I love that way if they thinking. So is that sort of your approach in scaling and helping these business owners scale?

Chris Goegan  05:06

It has my approach, but it didn’t come from E Myth. 

Brynne Tillman  05:09

Oh, I didn’t mean to. 

Chris Goegan  05:10

Yes, yes. But yeah, It’s making it so. So you’re not needed in the day-to-day business. Because like when you get going, you basically create for yourself a job, you know, a job to replace what you’re doing before maybe to start a business up, you know, you’re entrepreneur to entrepreneur, to begin with, But you create a job. 

And then if that’s all, where you stay at an event ends up being like a low-paid crummy job, or it could be a higher-paid job, but if you want to grow a business, you have to have the business work for you. So you talk about taking six months off? How about taking six hours off? You know, most people can’t? They’re tethered to their phone, They can’t leave their phone on or off for a day, and they can’t go away for a weekend. 

They can’t take a two, three-day vacation. They can’t do any of that. But yeah, if you want to untether yourself, and take six months off, or six weeks off, or six days off, then yeah, absolutely. You have to, you have to look at your business differently, From a system standpoint.

Brynne Tillman  06:05

This is a great segway into that, how do we first look at our business differently?

Chris Goegan  06:10

You know, that’s a great question. My answer is always the same. And it’s not what people think what you got, yeah, the first thing you have to do is “You got to step back” Like because entrepreneurs and business owners are busy, like, think you’re so busy being successful, that you don’t have a lot of time to think, you know, I love a book that John Maxwell wrote a long time ago, I can’t remember anything about the book, just the title “Thinking for a Change”.

And it’s so you gotta like to step back. And It’s like, it’s great that you’re gonna go on vacation to Mexico or something like that, you know, and just step back from your business and think like, “Where am I?” Like, “Where do I want to go?” Like, “Where do I want to take this?” “Is there another level I want to take it to?” Or “Is this it?”. 

Are I happy right where I am right now? And there’s no right or wrong answer. It’s just what’s right for you. So it’s like, step back and take no inventory of where you are, and where you want to go. And then saying, “You know what, Do I have a plan and a growth plan that’s gonna get me there?”.

Brynne Tillman  07:07

So okay, so now, the answer’s no, I don’t have a growth plan. I have a vision. What should I do next?

Chris Goegan  07:15

Yeah, so vision, and then you know, and then there’s strategy and beyond. And then you look at, look at your model, especially as you’re growing, initially, you start off, like I mentioned earlier, saying yes to everything in anything, but then when you start doing that, you got it, you got to like, like pull back and say, “You know what, I don’t like this, I don’t like that, I don’t like this, I like this, I like this, I really like this”. And then and then you establish like, what the core of your brand is all about, this is the area I want to specialize in. 

This is what the core of my brand is all about. And then you know, and then this, this is the purpose, this is the purpose. Like, why was I here? why Phil was put here on God’s green earth. And this is what I want to take out to the world and I want to take it out and bake, you know, so you develop that and develop your purpose, you know, and then and then and then you figure out your vision beyond that. And then we get into practical tackle getting into like, the strategy we get into, the model. And then and then we get into the three core systems, you know, for

Brynne Tillman  08:16

Tutorials, just high-level, what are those three core systems?

Chris Goegan  08:19

Yeah, you don’t know. So I was an engineer. I left engineering and got a sales banged out over 100,000 cold calls, like actually counted it, like 100,000 cold calls. And a grand summation of over a decade doing straight, straight sales was that there’s three types of prospects. That’s it, no more, no less cold prospects, warm prospects, and hot prospects. 

And so when we’re looking at this, from a system standpoint, like a spell a system for each, you know, like so many people that they try to cram everybody into one file, you know, and they try to cram you, we fall but exposes you try to cram, if you’re a cold or warm prospect, you’re not looking to buy, and you’re crammed into this buy now funnel, well, it gets annoying, you know, and nobody likes that. 

So instead of that, it’s like, let’s just talk to colds, the way colds would want to be talked to Let’s Talk to warm so accordingly us build a system that to handle and nurture and warm the worms until our hearts, the hearts we can close, you know, and the hearts are happy to be closed. But like somebody said before, Chris, I don’t want to be chased until I’m ready to buy, you know. And so it’s that we have three separate systems, one for colds, one forms one for hearts, hearts for today’s dollars, and worms are tomorrow’s dollars. 

And when we build these systems and look at it from a system standpoint, meet them where they’re at, and help them then we can have phenomenal growth. You know, like this is how it took one company from startup to largest in the world three years. If we look at it let’s just treat people accordingly. And they loved it

Brynne Tillman  09:48

Interesting. And then do they move through the funnel or pipeline based on their engagement? So I go from cold to warm, like the system does that?

Chris Goegan  09:59

Yeah. Well, the system doesn’t but see here, here’s one thing that I found Brynne is, I can’t make somebody go from a cold to warm to hot. I can’t do that. They could do that. Everyone goes through this. This thing called the looking zone. And we’re like something happens in their life, where now all of a sudden they’ve got this, This pain or this desire in their life for a change. And I can’t create that change. Like, an easy example is weight loss, Right? Like December. 

Nobody wants to lose weight, December, you know, I want to eat cheese and be festive and have a glass of wine and eat desserts and get fat, you know, but then come January one, while everyone’s making, Right? It’s like, “I’m fat”, “I’m out of shape”, “I put on some weight”, “I need to get rid of this”. They started looking for a weight loss program, Right?. 

So if you’re selling, How can you help? How hard would it be to sell somebody in December versus selling somebody like maybe right at the end of December or in early January. Because they’re now in that looking zone, Right? There’s something happening in their life, there’s a trigger, I call it a trigger event triggered event to move them in the looking zone, or now they’re looking. 

So all we want to do with these systems, we develop these systems like systems for the worms, where they stick around. And they really love the value that we give to them, the education that we bring to them, the help that we give them, and the perspective that we give to them. And then when that life event happens, where they move into that looking zone now they’re like, “Okay, they become hot”. And they’re like, you know, “Hey, I want to talk to Brynne”, “Brynne, Fantastic”.

You know, I don’t know if I’m going to work with Brynne or not. But I’d like Brynne, and I’m going to talk to her. Yeah, and people just don’t know Brynne is the one, Brynne is the one. I don’t, it’s like, you don’t like, this is where, you know, I had somebody like, call me up after, you know, weeks or months or at a guy like, you know, 10 years. 

Chris? I don’t know, I don’t know if you remember, but I saw you speak at this place. And, yeah, I really enjoyed this. You know what you’ve been sending me in? Here’s my situation. I’m great. I’m great with hot. My warm system stinks. And my cold system stinks. How much does it cost? When can we get started? What I make good. I made the checkout too. You know, It’s those kinds of things that you get, like from that.

Brynne Tillman  12:19

Yeah. So that they’re moving themselves from.

Chris Goegan  12:20

You can’t move them. 

Brynne Tillman  12:21

Yeah, I love that. That’s sort of a really good perspective to keep in your brain because we do try to pigeonhole, you know.

Chris Goegan  12:32

This analogy that I use in forums, run and it’s like, there’s two guys on a porch, sipping on an iced tea, and the dogs whining in the call, and the corn on the porch. And one guy says, buddy, it’s like,e “Why is your dog whining?” And he goes, “He’s lying on a nail”. And guys, like, Well, why don’t you move, guy goes, don’t hurt bad enough, you know,  So like, like, until that nail pierces the skin, they’re not ready to move. 

Brynne Tillman  13:04

I love that.

Chris Goegan  13:05

Until that nail pierces the skin, now we can go over, we could put our foot on him and gently press down on him, you know, with you know, with different messaging and stuff like that, you know, we can help them to feel that pain more. But until that nail pierces the skin, they’re not hot. Once that nail pierces the skin, then when they’re ready, they become hot, and they’re ready to buy.

Brynne Tillman  13:24

Interesting. So let’s talk about the cold just for a moment. How do you earn the right to bring enough value to the table to get them to move themselves? What do you know? What are some of the things that you do?

Chris Goegan  13:43

Yeah, So it’s just a matter, it’s really a matter of just giving them high, high-value content that matches where they’re at, to keep them around long enough, until they become warm and hot. Now, if you’re in a big market, you don’t really need to worry about cold so much if you’re in a small market, like, you know, I was working with one company and their market was at about 100 clients. 

That was our total market, you know, so it’s like, okay, well, we’re going to a golf program for the Colts and colts have no problem. They have no problem. So you can’t solve the problem. So you give them things that are interesting and coles ville will invest 30 seconds with you. Maybe a minute third, but you know, 30 seconds, read an article, maybe watch a clip of a video like some stats, stuff like that, you know, so you just give them stuff that matches that attention span warm swarms they’re not ready to buy yet. 

They know they have a problem. And they’re looking at potential solutions. And they’re just trying to figure out if they want to invest time, money and energy to solve their problem. They don’t know if they want to solve a problem or yet you know, and warms will consume more, you know, more stuff. 

They’ll consume five to 20 minutes you know, maybe like longer sometimes, you know of stuff so we give them high-value stuff when they’re at hot school. consume anything and everything that you have. So, it doesn’t matter. I hope I answer your question. 

Brynne Tillman  15:05

Yeah, no, that’s great. 

Chris Goegan  15:06

I took off. There was a rabbit running by or something like that. Yeah.

Brynne Tillman  15:09

No, no. I mean, I look off when I’m contemplating and I shouldn’t do that at all. It’s excellent. Very, very good. Okay. So I know, I can’t believe how fast this is going. Let me ask you one last question, which is, what question Didn’t I ask you that I should have? 

Chris Goegan  15:28

Oh, my gosh. Which, one of my four kids is my favorite kid?

Brynne Tillman  15:36

Oh, now, we should never say that publicly.

Chris Goegan  15:40

They always ask, they always ask me that, you know, and, you know, it’s like, you know, I pens on the day. Ya know it’s just really like, it’s just really a boat, about businesses and what they want to accomplish, you know, like, what they want, you know, so there’s, there’s no magical one question that, or maybe I should have had a better answer for that. But medium to practical, you know, with stuff.

Brynne Tillman  16:06

Oh, then I’ll change. I’ll change it and say, what is the first thing a business owner should do? Their? They’re probably a little warm right now. They’re hanging out? Where would they find the content from you to consume?

Chris Goegan  16:23

Yeah, yeah, good question. So, because people are usually like, Who is this? “Who is this Chris guy who will place my name with your name”, you know, for your clients? Like, “Who’s this Brynne?” Like, “What’s she all about?” “Who is she anyhow?” “Can I trust her?” “Is she one of those people you know, but I kind of like her”, you know. So for me, I have different resources. 

It’s like he can go to, you know, go to my website, chriscoegan.com. And there’s a three systems guide, it’s a great way to, you know, to go and kind of learn more poker on the website, learn about me, but there’s also stuff on LinkedIn, you know, different articles and stuff like that I’ve written. 

We’ve got videos on YouTube that you can look at just to get it’s really just to get a feel for like, Who is this guy do I think like do I resonate with him and do I think he can help me you know, kind of thing. If so, then go get the free guide. And that’s really going to start giving you some deeper education.

Brynne Tillman  17:21

That’s awesome. And the free guide is at chriscoegan.com, see chrisgoegan.com/three-systems-guide. And we’ll put that in the show notes. Terrific. Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun, and I’m sure that the listeners got some great value. So guys, when you are out and about don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro  17:51

Thanks for listening and joining us again. For more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales, training, and social selling strategies that will set you will park don’t forget to subscribe to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social Podcasts, Leave a review down below. Tell us what you think, what you learned and what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com for more information.