Episode 232: Joe Sabatino – Unmasking Success: The Power of Authenticity in Executive Presentations

Joe Sabatino  00:03

Remove the social mask. And when you’re up there, show people who you really are. Because like I said before, we all think we’re, we’re kind of different. But you know what, we’re all so much the same. We have no idea. And the mere fact that you’re opening up your heart to your audience, they will resonate with you and they will connect with you that much better.

Intro  00:28

Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast featuring the Top Voices in Sales, Marketing, and Business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show!

Brynne Tillman  00:54

Welcome back to making sales social boy do we have a fun guest today? I was at the sales 3.0 conference, the CRO 2023 conference in Vegas. And as much as I love going to the conference, what I love most is meeting new people. And I was very fortunate to get invited to a private dinner with Eli Cohen. And sitting across from me was this fabulous man, Joe Sabatino who just won my heart and is now my new friend, at least I think so and he is our guest today. Joe is so different from every other presentation coach and business advisor. 

His multifaceted background is at the highest level, he brings an award winning actor, writer, television producer and executive experience to the sales and entrepreneur speaker Joe brings an innovative approach to his coaching his unique combination of Performing Arts expertise, and professional athletic experience allows him to provide unconventional and transformative coaching principles. Unlike any other presentation and business coach, his distinct blend of skills and experience sets them apart allowing Joe’s clients transformative results to show, Welcome to making sales social.

Joe Sabatino  02:28

Oh my gosh, now that was an introduction. Thank you so much, Brynne, it’s absolutely a pleasure to be here at making sales social. And, you know, when I, when I think about making sales, social, it’s such a, it’s such a great title for this show. And when you think about making sales social, it’s so important that executives today in that corporate sphere, really have honed their public speaking skills when they go to conferences or when they’re on virtual conference calls. Because if we can’t capture someone’s attention, where our message resonates, what do we have? We really have nothing. 

Brynne Tilman 03:19

So I love that. And you know, it’s interesting, I go to lots of conferences, some speakers, catch your attention, grab you in, like you want you to hang on every word. And other ones make you want to pull up my phone and answer some emails. Right. One of the things that you do and and I have seen this in a couple of clients that you brought to my attention, and I kind of did some poking around. It’s been transformative, and I don’t think it takes that long for you to work with them to get them from a subject matter expert to a subject matter expert speaker. Right. And there’s a difference in how you move from I know a ton that can bring value to my audience, to my audience wanting to hear the ton.  I know.

Joe Sabatino  04:12

Right. You know, there’s this phrase, which I’m sure everyone out there is for. And it goes a little like this. “They say Good is the enemy of great.” Okay, so when executives are presenting, if they’re good, well, they deliver their presentation and their co-workers say, “Oh, that was a great job.” And then when they leave the room, and 15 minutes removed from the presentation does everyone remember it? Probably not. Because it just blends in with the sea of presenters. 

So when we think about how do we really captivate the audience, so that our message can resonate? There’s a couple of different things that we do. And what we share behind the talk with our clients. But we really break this down. And like you were saying, “I think the differentiating factor behind the talk is simply that we’re looking at this from a performers point of view.” Because sometimes when you speak with executives, I’ll say to them, “Hey, okay, you got to go up there and give a performance.” They’re like, “No, I’m not giving a performance.”

Trust me, you’re giving a performance now, and I always say to the executives, because as you were alluding to, how do you, how do you separate yourself from everyone? “Oh, my gosh, there’s so many people out there.” And I always start with saying, “You’re going to walk on stage differently.” And they go, “Wait a minute, Joe, how are you going to walk on stage? How am I going to walk on stage differently?” and just like Brynne Tillman walks on stage differently, that’s how they’re going to walk on stage differently. And what people don’t realize is, when we’re at a conference, where we’re going up on stage, or we’re on a digital conference call, there’s something that happens, and we have this, we have this thing inside of us that the moment we get a little apprehensive, maybe a little nervous, maybe questioning, “Hey, is that a good opening line?” 

You know, do I want to start that way, the speaker before me, they did this, I know. And we start questioning this, we’ve maybe become a little insecure. And the first thing that we lose is this, we lose our smile. So here’s the thing, think about this. And this is a trick that please remember this, this is a trick that every actor does when they’re presenting on stage, or look at your favorite comic, when they come on stage. And as for performance, we all know this. So when we walk on stage, we have to really understand what our brand is. 

So we understand what Brand and Brynne you to do this, you’re so wonderful at this because you bring on “No, no, no, don’t get worried.” You bring on this fun, exciting, passionate way of speaking. So before you do anything, and I just saw you a few days ago, but before you do anything, and before you say anything, you’re already screaming volumes to who you are. So before you even say anything about LinkedIn or anything like that, you come up there with a smile, you look at everybody, and you’re already syncing with the audience of who you are as a person. 

Now, if you want to connect with your audience, what you want to do is you want to let them see you. So what Brynne Tillman does when she goes on stage, is they see her with her smile, and how you look, you know, right, left you just observing your audience, and then you begin talking. So that’s really like one of the first keys, we all know this, whether it’s human behavior, or neuroscience, or whatever the case may be. People want to deal with people who are positive, who are happy, probably passionate, excited. 

So we know this for a fact. So then the big question comes for anyone out there, if you’re going to give a presentation, why wouldn’t you walk on stage, smile, look to the right, look to the left and taking your audience so that they can then take you in, and you know what that establishes, that establishes immediately how confident you are as a speaker, and how confident you are in your content that you’re going to share with them.

Brynne Tillman  08:53

Well, that’s awesome. And I appreciate that you observed that in me, but when I you know, well, you know, when I connect with a speaker isn’t usually the topic. It’s usually the feeling.

Joe Sabatino  09:10

100%. And you know, there’s that old you know, we’ve we’ve heard this banter about is saying, people don’t remember what you say, but they remember how you make them feel. So for those of you who maybe have watched the television series, The Sopranos back in the day, everybody, okay, everybody’s like, “I love Tony Soprano, I love Tony Soprano.” Well, tell me tell me why you like Tony Soprano. What was it that he said that you like you don’t know? But you just, you know, his aura, his being, how he makes you feel, you know, like, guide you like, you know, probably might want to be a little thinner. 

But I like how he controls everything. And he makes me feel like you know, he’s the guy he’s the man. So it’s, we really want to make peace and will emotionally react to us. So how do people emotionally react to us? Well, here’s a really simple nugget for you. If you’re smiling, you’re creating a positive experience for them. And generally, when they see you, they’re going to smile. Because here’s the thing. I always say this, when we meet someone, I’m going to say “There’s three things that everyone does.” And if I’m wrong with any one of these three things, please type in or, or ask, are you? Okay? Yeah, email me. 

But the three things when you see someone, what are you going to do? Well, First thing you’re going to do is probably look at them right in the eye, you can stare at them in the eye, and why are you going to do that? Because we know inherently, that when someone looks us in the eye, “Wow, we can trust them.” They’re looking me right in the eye. And there’s that old saying that, “Hey, our eyes are the window to our soul.” So that’s the first thing we’re going to do. The second thing, we’re probably going to have this big smile on our face, right? 

You meet someone for the first time, we’re going to smile at them? Why? Well, because inherently, we also know that when I smile at someone, it’s going to show them that I’m a positive person. And I’m going to get that same positive energy back. And here’s the third thing that we’re probably going to do when we meet someone, Pre-COVID. Yes. And now that we’re post- COVID, I’m sure it’s coming back. But we’re probably going to reach out our hand and shake their hand and say, “Hey, it’s a pleasure meeting.” Why do we do that? Because when we know that, when we have body contact, it’s an acceptance. 

It’s a welcoming between two people. So now we know inherently, these three things are going to ingratiate ourselves with who we’re meeting. And now I just want to jump to, and I see so many executives that were innately aware of this, when we’re having this human interaction in person. But the rules kind of changed. When we’re in front of a camera on our digital conference call. And you say, “Wait a minute, how do the rules change?” Well, here’s how the rules change. When we meet someone on a digital conference call. If I were to look at you, Brynne. 

If I were to look you in the eye, I’d probably be here looking at you in the eye. And so many executives. Now they’ll talk like this, they need to be looking at the camera because whoever we’re speaking to, we need to have them feel because it’s not about it’s not about me. It’s about the audience. What are you going to learn? I have to connect with you. Also, I have to be cognizant of, you know, how does my audience feel about it? Well, if they see me smiling, we have this thing. It’s called our automatic brain. And our automatic brain is constantly making these decisions. “Oh, my gosh, look at Joe 17.” “Oh, what’s that in his background?” “Oh, it’s just a backdrop. Look at, look at Brynne look at she’s got that lamp there and she got this, tchotchke.” 

Right, no, but we’re always making these decisions. So if we stay consistent with who we are making eye contact, smiling, and then also, and then you have to shake the person’s hand. But wait a minute, oh, my gosh, we’re on this digital conference call. I can’t take anyone’s hand. How am I going to achieve that? Will you notice, as actors as performers, whenever we’re on screen, the frame right here, this is where we live. And this is broken down into thirds. So if you’re ever on a television set, or a movie set on the screen, you have the upper third, the middle third, and the lower third. So as an actor, when you’re working and you want to come alive, we know that generally you probably have witnessed me now speaking, and generally I’m probably my hands are coming in and out of the lower third. 

But when I want you to really remember something, or I want to hit home with something, I break that lower third, and now I’m in the mid, middle third, or upper third. So what this actually does is it allows me to animate my conversation physically, because we speak with these right? In addition to how we, you know, vary our inflections and our animation of our conversation. So there’s these two schools of thought, these two laws that as an executive, when you’re in person, you know that one innately also as an executive needs to understand that we need to connect with our audience.

Brynne Tillman  14:49

So I love that and I love that you brought in the digital too because so much of our presentation, say on Zoom, right? So much of what we’re doing so you know, and you gave us a lot of real I love the thirds. But what can we do to create? So we have a presentation, we’re going to talk about the sales numbers for this month and who did what? And generally, it’s a you know, the numbers change, but it’s the same presentation every single month. Where the salespeople are, they have an obligation to just show up, and some companies have an obligation to be on camera, which means they can’t be doing emails. What do you say to this executive to get their team excited to show up? Where do you know it goes from? It’s the exact same PowerPoint with new numbers so I can’t wait to hear what’s going on in the company?

Joe Sabatino  15:47

Oh, yeah. So this is, again, everything that I’m going to speak about is rooted in 30 years of performance experience. So one thing that performers know, and this is what we share with the executives, it’s about self awareness. What does self awareness really mean? Well, what it means is, we might be talking about the same thing, we didn’t make our numbers in the first quarter, and now it’s the second quarter, we’re having that same conversation, and the third quarter, and we can, we can present it the same way. 

But if you become self aware, and then the game, the game changes, because now we know, okay, the executive that has the wherewithal wants to get as much productivity and, and work with his team, and, and build them and empower them. So maybe they, you know, change their results. So he or she has to be cognizant of how they’re presenting. And with self awareness, like we discussed before, and we touched on it. People don’t remember what, you know what it is we say, but they remember how we make them feel. So we have to really be cognizant of how we are sharing the same conversation, and we’re getting those same results, you know, quarter in and quarter out, we want to change that game a little bit.

 So now we want to interact with our audience a little differently. So I always say people resonate with it, and Brynne. Again, you did this so wonderfully. But people resonate when they see you, when they see you. They resonate. So when we’re presenting, you know, the numbers, I think it’s something that sales executives can show a part of. What’s something in your life that you can bring out that was inspirational, that you can kind of connect to those sales numbers? I have this one, one. Might be a good friend of mine. I don’t know if you’re familiar, Brynne with the show Ted Lasso.

Brynne Tillman  17:57

Obsessed. Yes. Okay, so my favorite shows of all time.

Joe Sabatino  18:01

Okay, so my buddy created Ted Lasso. And there were so many, if you really watch Ted Lasso closely, there were so many big business lessons within that show, just you know about positivity, and storytelling and everything like that. So I’ve had, I’ve shared with executives saying, “Hey, everyone thinks we’re all so different.” We’re all so different. Look at this brand. I didn’t know you were a fan of TED lasso. And I’m speaking of Ted lasso. And now how about if I, if we’re talking about speaking in public being confident, and I go, “Hey, you know what, there’s this show Ted lasso, I want you to watch because it brings out the essence of what we’re speaking about today.” Let’s take a look at this. Now, here’s what we do. And we call this suspending reality. We’re in a business meeting. 

But we’re suspending the reality of the business meeting. And we’re showing that scene from Ted lasso. So what we’re actually doing is we’re changing the biological state of the viewer, because now the person that sees that is seeing and going, Oh my gosh, Brynne. Like you said, “I’m obsessed.” The moment you see Ted Lasso on the stage, your whole chemistry, your whole body chemistry changes. And now you’re pumped up. “Oh, my gosh, it’s the deadline.” So Well, I remember seeing “Wow, that’s so cool.” Now, not only are you seeing deadlines, so not only are you absorbing that message a little differently, but now you’ve got a new energy all about you. So leadership today has to be creative, when they’re discussing numbers or marketing or whatever. We have to deliver that information and we have to be creative to have a different delivery system.

Brynne Tillman  20:00

Oh, I love that. That’s a great way if you know if a sales leader or CEO is right when you’re starting these meetings if every meeting or once a month meeting you start with another wonderful scene that sets the tone. And I think for someone who’s concerned that they may not have stage presence, that almost like leads them in. So you already have this, your team feeling the way you want them to feel. And then I think that’s brilliant, I’m gonna start doing that. We have weekly meetings every Monday. And now I’m gonna open up. I’m just gonna live on YouTube finding awesome clips. So I think.

Joe Sabatino  20:44

All right, cool. I love it. You can even use a couple of the shows. I wasn’t kidding.  

Brynne Tillman  20:51

Yeah. So I want to do that and then I’m gonna come back. So tell me even though I already IMD IMDB. Edu, but tell me some of the shows or tell us tell the listeners some of the shows you’ve been on? Which you have an incredible resume. And so many amazing people.

Joe Sabatino  21:08

Ya know, I’ve been really fortunate that we’re gonna be getting a little serious here. No, but I’ve been fortunate, guys. I’ve worked with some of the biggest stars in the world, whether it’s been Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, George Clooney, Dennis Quaid, Tommy Lee Jones. I mean, it just goes on and on. But one of the reasons why I just feel so blessed and, and have a tremendous, and I mean, a tremendous amount of gratitude for the entertainment businesses, is because it’s, it’s taught me so many lessons. And what has it really taught me? Well, we all think of Arnold, Tommy Lee, you know, all these actors? Oh, they’re just so effortless in what they do. 

They, you know, act as a present. They don’t get nervous. They’re just like a different type of person. Okay. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. I’m listening, everyone. And I mean, everyone gets nervous before they perform. And, okay, but here’s the thing. How does the actor not show that nervousness? Because the actor has kind of made friends with someone. Now you’re saying, “Wait a minute, the actor has made friends with someone.” Okay? Here it is. We have as people and think about yourself when you go to present and think about yourself, when you’re just home in the most comfortable environment. We have these two personas that dwell inside of us. 

The first Person when it comes to public speaking is what I would call him, Frankie fear. And Frankie fear is the persona of oh my gosh, I hope they like me. “Oh my gosh, my material isn’t good enough.” That last week was really good. Oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? How’s this gonna work? I don’t know what. That’s Frankie fear. And then there’s another persona that maybe is a little deeper inside of us. And I call this persona. Frankie is fearless. And Frankie is fearless. Is this guy and you know, me? Yeah. I’m fine. Okay, so now we got these two personas, but here’s the thing. We can’t have too much Frankie fear, and we can’t have too much Frankie fearless. So what we have to do is we have to feed them both. 

Okay, so we got to, we got to bring Frankie fearless in to go Alright, just calm down. We got this. We know this. But we are still every actor, every actor that I know, including myself. I want to be a little a little nervous, you know, a little, but we don’t call it nervous. I want to have a little adrenaline running. Because I know when I have that adrenaline running back, I’m on it. I’m on target. I’m thinking quickly. I’m working with my audience. And that’s how I’m playing the game. So we want to really, as a performer, you come and you embrace these two personas that dwell inside of you. And you want to have that, that nice balance, because it’s then when you hit that Oscar winning performance.

Brynne Tillman  24:47

I love that so I’m gonna just drop some TV show names that I loved that you were on. One Desperate Housewives.

Joe Sabatino  24:56

Oh my gosh. I was gonna tell you stories from every show, but I won’t.

Brynne Tillman  25:02

No. We don’t have time, but I will get them. Cold Case was a Philadelphia show and I was living in Philadelphia at the time. 

Joe Sabatino  25:10

I was stoked. Can I just share this one thing? Yeah. Okay. When we were outside, I was doing a TV show guest star, which is like the lead guest star on the show. Yeah, I played this abusive dad. And my daughter was, she was deaf. And every actor on the show, except the series regulars and myself, every actor was Deaf on the show. And I was communicating and acting opposite these actors. And here’s what was so beautiful about it. And I’m getting goosebumps as I’m talking, please forgive me. 

But what was so lovable is that the actors the were teenagers, that I was working with, I could see them it was such a moving experience to me because they had a concentrate on what my mouth how my mouth was shaping, making all of my words and you know, in creating my words, and that’s how they would respond to me. And I just was like, I cannot believe I’m actually doing this. What an experience. So it was wonderful.

Brynne Tillman  26:20

Very cool. I’m still leaving a few Prison Break. Fun show, 24.

Joe Sabatino  26:27

Oh, who didn’t love that? Yes. With Kieffer.

Brynne Tillman  26:32

Oh my gosh. I mean, that was crazy. So you have an episode on Veep. So does my niece. Oh, my niece. 

Joe Sabatino  26:40

No way. 

Brynne Tillman  26:41

I love it. Oh, yeah. Morgan Smith, so we’ll have to talk about that one day. She had I think maybe 12 lines in three episodes by the way. That’s awesome, Brooklyn 99.

Joe Sabatino  26:56

Wait, just real quick. Andy Samberg had a crush so much that I remember before our scenes, they would have to go. We didn’t make a poncho because I would literally be crying. What a great.

Brynne Tillman  27:08

I love it. I love it. Castle was one of our favorites for 

Joe Sabatino  27:12

Oh, yeah. 

Brynne Tillman  27:13

Blue Bloods talks about a great guy. NCIS.

Joe Sabatino  27:22

Oh, you know, NCIS Mark Harmon. And we shot that we were in a prison. We were upstate. Upstate here in Northern California, in a prison and it was talking about a unique experience working in a functionally live prison. And I had to do the scene where I was down in the solitary confinement cell. So just walking down there. I’ll never forget they walked me into it. Going into solitary confinement is no joke. 

And then when my cell door slammed, to put me in the cell, and remember, and there’s a camera, the director, you know, sound people outside the cell. It was so claustrophobic and such a strong environment that they were like, “Okay, Joe, you’re ready to run lights.” And I remember going on. Just give me one second to collect myself. So yeah. Wow, funny. And then.

Brynne Tillman  28:20

And I’ve seen this movie at least three times. I think it was an amazing movie, Vise?  What did you do in vise?

Joe Sabatino  28:26

Oh my gosh. So Christian. That was I had three I had, I got to see opposite Christian, where we’re on number one in the movie where the guy falls off of the was early in the movie where he falls off and breaks his leg. And he’s like, Ah, so I had to play this. The foreman for the linesman and Christian. It was a three page scene and they cut it down to nothing. But so I had to play the foreman that intimidates Christian.

So I remember when we were doing it. It was a great scene. And I had this pipe in my hand and I had to walk up to Christian and go oh, yeah, it was like, listen, chaining. You don’t get in line. I’m gonna use this pipe, you know, whatever it was, but it was great. Yeah. So they cut it down to next to nothing. But it was great. It was you know, I worked obviously Christian Bale. And he’s one of the actors that I just go, Oh my gosh, this is one of the best actors in Hollywood. I mean, he’s amazing.

Brynne Tillman  29:33

Oh, I could go on and on. But I’m going to ask one last question, which is what is the number one tip you would give an executive today that is brilliant at what he or she does but is not keeping the attention of their staff?

Joe Sabatino  29:49

It’s a great question and it’s a great question. I think the number one thing we do in life in business is to wear What we call social masks. What do I mean by social mask? Well, we all have this persona that we put forth, it’s our winning formula. Okay. And I think the biggest thing that we can do, and I’m the executive and everybody, you have to have courage to be courageous, I think the biggest thing that an executive can do to really resonate with their audience is remove the social mask.

And when you’re up there, show people who you really are. And here’s why. Because like I said before, “We all think we’re, we’re kind of different.” But you know what, we’re all so much the same, we have no idea. And the mere fact that you’re opening up your heart, to your audience, they will resonate with you, and they will connect with you that much better.

Brynne Tillman  30:56

So it’s really a vulnerability.

Joe Sabatino  30:59

Vulnerability. That’s right. And it takes courage to be vulnerable. And that’s why when you understand, you know, what our greatest strength is, as a speaker, and as people, our greatest strength as an actor, a performer, your greatest strength is your vulnerability.

Brynne Tillman  31:16

I love it. So, for our listeners, if they wanted to work with you, what does that look like? And how did they get in touch?

Joe Sabatino  31:23

Well, first, it looks like a lot of fun. So you can reach me at Joe, at joesabatino.com, you can go to my website, www.joesabatino.com. And you can email me there. And, you know, the approach that I use with my company, when working with people, is simply we’re coming, we’re coming at public speaking, stage presents executive presence, body language, why doing this and understanding the behind the talk method, it really helps you with your leadership, because by understanding all of this, it just makes you’re seeing differently.

And it gives you that perception of that strong and confident leader. So you can Yeah, just Joe at Joe sabatini.com for like I said, just go to www.joesabatino.com. And this was great. Brynne just want  to just tell you this, you your energy is just so warm, and so loving that, you know, I think today, everybody, you know, I don’t know if I should be that vulnerable and say what I want to say, but at the end of the day, you just have such a warm and loving energy. And it radiates when you’re on the stage. It radiates when you’re on your podcast. And it radiates when we’re just sitting there having dinner chat. And so I thank you so much for this opportunity.

 Brynne Tillman  32:56

I thank you so much. This was amazing. And it’s just a continuation of our conversation. And I can’t wait to continue it some more. So, to all of our listeners, I’m sure you got some great value from this. And when you’re out and about don’t forget to make your sales social.

 Outro 33:15

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