Episode 260: Five-Minute Mastery: John J. Fenton – Transforming Stress to Success in Sales Leadership

Intro 00:00

Welcome to Making Sales Social Live, as we share LinkedIn and Social Selling Training Strategies and Tips that will have an immediate impact on your business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, every week, Making Sales Social Live! This is the recorded version of our weekly Making Sales Social Live Show.

Bob Woods  00:00

John J. Fenton, author, speaker, coach, and the founder and CEO of John J. Fenton Executive Coaching, joins us in the Social Sales Link Virtual Studios for this week’s episode of Making Sales Social. John is known as the “CEO Sensei,” I love that, and works with CEOs and business leaders who want more clarity, better results, and more freedom in their lives. 

What separates the good leaders from the great ones is that inner game or mindset of leadership, and John is dialed into that mindset. Formerly a managing partner with BDO, USA, John has been transforming the landscape of executive coaching and leadership since 2013. 11 years now, that’s great. His recent book Five Minute Mastery was a number one new release and a bestseller in three categories on Amazon and is available currently on Amazon as well. 

And something I find fascinating. John has earned a black belt in Tai Chi and is a master of meditation in that field as well. So, I would try to come up with a Tai Chi joke, but I just don’t know it well enough at this point. So I think we’d stay, we’re just gonna say. Welcome to Making Sales Social, John. 

John J. Fenton  02:09

Thank you so much, Bob. A pleasure to be with you. And excuse my voice. I got a little bit of laryngitis this past week. 

Bob Woods  02:17

Oh, yeah, everybody’s getting sick. It seems like I’ve been dancing it so far. Hopefully, I will continue. Yeah. So our first traditional question on the shoe is, What does making sales social mean to you?

 John J. Fenton  02:35

You know, really, to me, it really is about connecting – connecting with people who don’t know me. I’m building relationships. That’s a starting point to build a relationship. And it’s starting to get to a point where we can get to a point – a point where you can have a conversation. So it’s really the starting point for me about reaching out to people, people that I’m interested in. Hopefully, they’ll be interested in what I have to offer as well. And we can start a conversation.

Bob Woods  03:04

That’s probably the most succinct answer that I’ve ever heard of that question. And it’s also a fantastic answer to that question. Appreciate that, John. Thanks. So you’ve been recognized? Excuse me, speaking of blue, you’ve been recognized as a leading authority in leadership. So how do you see the role of leadership evolving, especially in the context of B2B sales and what we like to talk about around here and that social selling?

John J. Fenton  03:31

Yes, thank you. Great question. You know, the world is so complex, and it continues to be more complex every day, every year. The great pandemic really accelerated a lot of uncertainty and ambiguity in business. And so, really, my view is you want to be the best leader you can be. I was a student of leadership throughout my career, I played collegiate sports, [and] I got to see the good and the bad and the ugly about good teams and championship teams. 

I was a part of both, and what leadership it took to really have those kinds of teams, successful teams. And so it’s really been a passion of mine, reading about learning from other leaders. And in today’s environment, with the world being so crazy as it is really being grounded in your leadership, your authentic leadership style, and everybody has their own authentic leadership style. 

But it’s so important to focus on what you believe in. Be grounded in your values. And really focusing on what matters most to you as a leader, and then help leading is really about guiding other people and being there for other people. So, being in a position to help that. 

Bob Woods  05:17

When it comes to that whole thing about deciding what type of leader you are, I guess, just gonna throw it out there very generically. I mean, I do think a lot of people probably know what that is. But if somebody doesn’t know what that is, or somebody doesn’t like what that is, what can they do? 

John J. Fenton  05:55

Yeah, great follow-up. There’s a lot of preconceptions, I think a lot of us have an idea about what a great leader looks like. We think it’s the person out in front, the big name, the big persona, that doesn’t have to be some of the greatest leaders of all time. We’re introverts, right, I have a client who’s really she’s a self-proclaimed introvert. And that’s okay because you can still be an introvert and still be very impactful. 

But great leaders are… they’re driven, they have a vision for the future. It’s not all about themselves, or about their own satisfaction are our own careers. It’s about everybody, they’re working with their team members, people in the organization, they want to see everybody be successful. So leadership really comes from a place of giving compassion, great leadership, giving and compassion, and really having a view for what the future could look like. 

And then taking a stance, sometimes you have to take a stand about what you believe in and what you think the company or the firm or organization needs to achieve or go towards to create that vision or create that future. And sometimes it’s not always popular, but if you believe in yourself, you’re grounded in your values. I think leadership is really about taking a stand and believing in really good grounded values that you have and moving forward and moving towards achieving those goals. 

And leadership can come from anybody in any level in an organization. It’s sometimes a situation. And it shows that you care for other people. You care about not only your own success but the success of the people around you. And you have a clear idea about where you want to go forward to.

Bob Woods  07:36

Yes, So that’s interesting because so far, we’ve kind of looked at things from a leadership standpoint, um, you know, from the person being the leader, I guess, is what it should say, but what is it about that type of leader, that people who are looking to be led or who need to be led just because they’re working for the leader? What attracts them to that type of person? And what should that leader do to kind of, I don’t want to say reinforce that attraction. But I mean, just to make it easy for people to go, “Hey, this guy, or this gal is a good leader, you know, I should listen to him and, you know, be led by them.”

John J. Fenton  08:22

I think for everybody, I believe that for everybody. And I know this from my own experience, look at the people in your life, who have been that you thought are good leader, what is it about them that you thought was a good leader? It’s really unspoken, really, it’s not the words they say, it’s their actions. So if you’re true to yourself, really, a lot of my work is around, tapping into your authentic self, your best self, if you’re true to that self, and making life decisions based on a place from that best self and a true self. 

You know, energetically your vibe, whatever it is, is going to come off from you. People are going to resonate with some people will resonate with some people may not right. There’s different vitamins, getting all kinds of quantum mechanics with different vibrations, about leadership and energy and things we’re bringing to the table. But as a leader, the big common mistake of leaders are you typically the person that has done a really good job at one level, the organization keeps getting moved up in the organization, right? And then you come to take on more and more leadership roles.

And then these roles are more split. They’re responsible for more people than just themselves. Well, a lot of times we get this trap kind of trap thinking that we have to be something that we’re not really right. We kind of his own idea what we think leadership is to get into impostor syndrome of trying to be something we’re not, and we’re not being true to ourselves. And the moment that you start to make decisions and do take actions that are not gonna say Start with your core values of who you really are. 

People are going to recognize that it’s unconscious, really, people recognize that. And they may or may not want to follow you as the leader, or not the leader. So I think just it’s really the inward, it’s the inner work, it’s really focusing on you being grounded in who your true values are, what your true values are. And in making choices and make decisions and taking actions, actions speak louder than words about being that real, authentic person. 

And then really taking the time to spend time with your people that you’re leading, getting to know that I’m getting to understand them, you know, coming from a sports background and played collegiate sports at a very high level, in the best coaches that I saw the ones that took time to spend time to know their players, and understand their players strengths, and sometimes in their weaknesses as well. Areas that they can strengthen. But to understand those players understand where they’re coming from, so they can relate to them more on one on one basis. 

And I think in today’s environment, with work from home, and all the hybrid work and all these different ways, and now how work is being done, it’s harder and harder to do that. But it can still be done through you know, using your intentionality and spending time with people, one on one virtual coffees or whatever it might be. But it’s really putting yourself out there authentically connecting with the people on your team, having a clear idea about where you want to go. And I think people will gravitate towards you and follow you.

Bob Woods  11:33

And not do all that from on high, I think is what I’m really getting. 

John J. Fenton  11:37

Right. It’s not out of it’s not out of a textbook, really, I think of it as some kind of basic, right. It’s the things we learned growing up, it’s, you know, show respect for other people, if you want to be respected, you know, show respect other people if you want to be trusted, and trustworthy, be trustworthy and show that you trust other people. The same, you know, a lot of talk nowadays about engagement, right, the more engagement from our people. And I know from my own experience as a young young pup growing up in the accounting profession. 

A long time ago, before we even talked about this stuff, or thought about this stuff that a managing partner came to me one day as a young staff person and said, “Hey, I want you to review this projection.” You know, sitting in the office, I had nothing else working on. I was working on nothing else at the time was brand new to the firm at that time. It took an hour spent some time going through it thought about it went back in with some questions. For me, that was you know, and he actually didn’t like to kick me out of his office when I came back to him. 

You know, he appreciated what I did for him. And it really just showed it’s kind of a belonging cue, right. Daniel Coyle and culture code talks about belonging cues, it’s engaging with other people, ask him to do things, do things sometimes challenge them sometimes to challenge them to go above where they’re at in terms of their career, to engage them with more challenging work, and opportunities to show what they really can’t do. And many times people will rise to the occasion.

Bob Woods  13:08

Yeah, that’s, yeah, so be available. And also, yeah, I mean, fighting the status quo is probably a pretty big thing. Here it sounds like I mean, because you do I, I do think that leaders should encourage growth. And it sounds like by what you’re describing that, when people do trust a leader who is authentic and genuine and listens, they feel like they can grow more, rather than someone who just says, “Yeah, you can grow and just always whine.”

John J. Fenton  13:41

Because, you know, talk is cheap, right? And it’s, that’s no, you gotta you gotta walk the talk, right? So you got to really demonstrate your actions, that you do trust people by giving them opportunities to grow and mature. And you mentioned the word listening, listening is so important. And it’s just so important. And it’s something I’m always trying to work on. It was not a skill set that I had mastered at all, before he got to the profession. 

But something I’ve really tried to work on a lot. Because we get in our mind, we started thinking about things, the next conversation the next question, we forget to just sit back and take a moment to pause and just really listen, and really kind of listen between the words, you know, to kind of get a vibe of what that person might be trying to express. That could lead to another question that furthers the conversation. And when you spend that time to really focus on someone, one on one and really listen to them, it makes a big impact. 

Bob Woods  14:34

Listen to the words and listen to in between the words. I like that. I like that a lot. So, your work emphasizes the importance of clarity and focus, especially in the high pressure environments that we all seem to be in nowadays, right? Are there strategies that sales professionals specifically can use to maintain clarity and focus in that high pressure area, especially when it comes to digital? Stop. I mean, we’re all digital and digital obviously is not going away. Right?

John J. Fenton  15:05

Absolutely. Well, I know for myself, I mean, I grew up in a very non digital world, early in my career, right so but but even nowadays, what I do so there’s a couple of techniques you can use it I use for myself, one is push the pause button, I push away from my computer, if I’ve been on my computer too much, I can feel it right, I can feel my head buzzing or push away from the digital stuff, digital tools, take a pause. Breathing is so important. You know, breathing is the one autonomic function your body you actually can control in your body. And you can get it.

Bob Woods  15:44

And it’s funny, you mentioned this, and I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I did want to bring this up because I had read this literally like yesterday, for every 25 minutes. And you can even put this into your, you know, into a smartwatch or your phone or refresh every five minutes, take a five minute break, because that’s a stent, where people start to lose focus and start to lose activity.

John J. Fenton  16:07

Exactly, exactly, you know, years ago, I mean, the system is still this way, I think. But in colleges and high school classes are only like a 50, typically a 50 minute class time, then you Timmons, get your next class, but really just to give you a break, a mental break, right and emotional break too, because we get tied up on our work and, you know, our emotions are involved, and we’re focused, we’re laser focused, hopefully on what we’re doing. 

Gotta take a break out to take a pause. So taking a pause is really important. The Navy Seals have a great motto, they have many models, and one of the mottos that I’ve read is slow is smooth, smooth is fast, right? So slow things down, slow things down. Because it becomes smoother, when it’s smoother, have less errors, less, you know, less variations or whatever, and ultimately becomes faster, right? You know that Navy SEALs’ environment it’s life or death. 

Especially if your listeners are not life or death. But slowing things down. It’s so it’s such a frenetic world out there and we’re bombarded right with constantly good information. The other thing I would say to slow things down is take your devices like electronic devices, shut them off an hour or two before you go to bed. 

Unless you wait for a really important phone call, you know, keep the phone out of your bedroom, all kinds of stuff, iPad, whatever. And then don’t grab your phone first thing in the morning. Don’t grab the iPhone and Android or whatever, or the computer for signal morning. Give yourself some time to reflect. Pause, breathe, start the day off on a good note.

Bob Woods  17:52

That’s interesting. That’s very interesting. Especially as Yes, I just think about myself really quick with that. I don’t know how to avoid that because I actually use my phone as my alarm to wake up in the morning. 

John J. Fenton  18:05

Can you do just keep it down? Do you face that?

Bob Woods  18:09

I like that. Okay, What we can do? So.

John J. Fenton  18:13

On your devices right, Bob? I mean, they’re like an appendage of our bodies right? If we really have to learn to train ourselves to manage those things I always turn the volume, the data sounds down and everything my wife gets mad at me cuz she never reach because I never hear the phone because I have it on quiet. Right? What I don’t want to let interruption during the day when I pick her up at certain times their day. I’ll pick up the phone, I’ll look at it. Check messages certain times. So I’m in control. If I have that thing pop constantly pinging and dinging me. I’m not in control at all.

Bob Woods  18:44

Exactly. You’re Yeah, spinning out of control. And there’s so many things in life in general that are outside of our control why? That we own and we depend on to control us shouldn’t happen like that. So let’s switch gears a little bit here. And let’s talk about top characteristics of high performing sales teams. What are some of those? And you know, we talked a little bit about virtual or hybrid work environments? How can we adapt those specifically to that environment as well as just I mean, just salespeople in general, obviously, but we are still still a hybrid as much as ever, and I don’t. I don’t see it going away. I don’t know about you?

John J. Fenton  19:31

Right now. I think hybrids are here to stay. Yeah, for sure. I know some companies are actually trying to force a return to office. I know there’s some pushback on that. So I’m not sure when it’s going to end up but I think more people just want more flexibility. But I think you know for sale, you know my experience of high performing sales teams. Very, you got to be very intentional, and disciplined. Right. 

So you got to map out a strategy. As you plan, how many calls or outreaches? Are we going to do it during a week or a month or a quarter? For the whole year, but bring it back to the bring it back to what’s what’s the quarter? What are we going to do focusing on that? I know quarterly measures are really important, Right. So being intentional, I think grounding yourself in understanding your products and services very well understand the why of your products and services. 

So you’re tapping, you want to tap into people’s emotional triggers, if you will, not not manipulatively ban away that you’re cognizant of that. So what makes your product or service like the best in the market, what makes it great, sell those kinds of things, relate those kinds of things to your customer situation? So using great questions, right, great, intuitive, great, conversational questions to dig deeper than the first answer, you know, learn more about them, make it about them, make it about the customer, or the potential customer, and what’s really important to them exploratory find out what their issues are. 

And nine times out of 10. If you have a solution that’s going to solve that potential customer’s problem. And it’s a real problem for them, they’re glad they’re gonna want to pay your farm, your company to solve that problem. Right? So you know, make it conversational, make it a friendly exchange, they may say no, they may say yes, the next Yes. Hopefully, the next yes is another meeting or whatever it might be the closing. But really being focused on that. And then you got to have targets and metrics and things to kind of measure your success. 

And break it down, chunk everything down to okay, what’s got a quarterly target? Well, what’s the next thing I need to do today, it’s gonna move me forward to get to that target. And be diligent about that. So tracking yourself using time blocking, it really takes a lot of discipline, if you’re working from home, get lots of distractions at home, whether it’s puppy dogs, or kids or whatever it may be at home. And in but really, you know, allow yourself that time to be clear, be tied into your values and the core values of your company, in the products and services that you deliver to your customers have that really clear in your mind. 

And then you know, if you’re get stuck, reach out to people on your team for help. Right? Do it all you have to do all by yourself. You’ve got a team at sales team, look out, look to other people for advice, and brainstorm on some things to help you solve some of these issues you may be coming up against. And continue to believe in what you’re doing and believe in what your products and services are. In energetically, if you really believe that you’re grounded in the purpose of those products and services.

That’s going to come across in a conversation with your potential customers. And people, you know, the Simon Sinek notion of why people buy based on what they believe in it aligns with what you believe in. So be clear about what those beliefs are your company’s beliefs, and align those with your potential customers. And you should have some pretty good success, I would think. 

Bob Woods  23:07

Yeah, it’s all about aligning values. It sounds like whether or not it’s from the leadership standpoint, what we’ve been talking about previously, or even just just with salespeople, and I think that that spins into the next question pretty well, because, you know, we’re just starting out 2024. And some people say it’s going to be great. Other people say probably not so much. We just we don’t know. But what I’m wondering is, you know, with everything you just said, what emerging trends or changes do you foresee in the realm of sales? Leadership? And how should sales professionals prepare to adapt to that?

John J. Fenton  23:50

Well, the sales trends and sales leadership, I think, again, getting closer to your potential being targeting your potential customers, really niching. I think niching more if you can find a niche for your product and services. Really niche into that more find you build out your ecosystem. So your company may provide a certain service, but there’s other people providing similar or other services not competing with yours, to that same target client, ideal client customer. So under identifying ecosystems, and building relationships with those ecosystems.

Other people that can refer you into other opportunities, and vice versa. Right. So you can also refer those companies to potential target customers. So thinking about a big it’s a big ocean, right? A big ocean, and our big pie and everybody there’s room at the table to enjoy that pie. And so thinking about you know, outside of your four walls of your verb, you know, virtual business, if you will, connecting with people outside of your four walls, they’re in that ecosystem. They provide some level of service to customers that your target customers in that market? 

And it’s kind of before, during and after marketing, Right? Where are those people in that process and themselves? Where can you tap into them provide services or information or insights to those service providers that also can lead to two more opportunities, I think, you know, there’s a lot of talk about AI and technology and things that’s going to keep continue to grow, it’s gonna continue to expand, again, I come back to core values, are we gonna let the AI drive us or we’re going to drive the AI and the machine learning so on, Right? 

So it’s embracing this is happening, it’s not, we’re gonna not gonna go back to not using that, I embrace it, this is happening as the trend is gonna continue. Find the ways that you can use those tools as tools. The best way, make sure you have good quality data that you’re using, and not rely on all the data you’re getting out of certain components of AI. 

A lot of companies are investing billions of dollars in their own internal AI machine learning. So you know, use the tools that you can, it’s still going to come down to building relationships, and never lose sight of that in terms of sales, right? You want to build a relationship with those customers. before, during and after the sale, continue to build those relationships, use the technology to your advantage. And again, being just true to your core values.

Bob Woods  26:28

Sounds great. So when it though, the one thing, I mean, I find a lot fascinating about you, but the one thing you probably fascinates me the most is that you have a black belt in Tai Chi and master meditation, which I actually want to kind of know what that is a little bit more. But how do you think principles from Tai Chi can be applied to enhance performance in sales and marketing?

John J. Fenton  26:52

Yes, very much. So. It really helped me dramatically in my career. You know, as a managing partner, I was responsible pretty much 50% marketing, sales and marketing 50% getting the work out the door. And, and you know, it really, again, the principles I’m kind of sharing today are really founded largely in that right being centered, being focused internally, not falling sway to all the external stimulation you’re getting all the time. 

So being grounded in your corporate symbols, really being centered in a term called centered stillness. I wrote a post today on LinkedIn about the very concept of you know, silence is one of the Lord is really the strongest sound. Yeah, letting silence embrace silence. Now you can tell I love to talk. So embracing silence about getting to that quiet place, getting that quiet moment, first thing in the morning, throughout the day, only takes a few minutes, using your breath to help you create that quiet stillness, that quiet space in that silence. 

And that silence is a really great tool to have. It’s really a secret weapon in sales, I think. Because when you’re being silent, and you’re just listening, without judging without anticipating, just listening. Sometimes I find the right words come the next thing that comes out of my mouth, or the right words, that helps move the conversation forward in terms of how we’re going to work together with a potential customer. So really embrace that stillness and that silence. Tai Chi teaches about mind body connection. 

And what that really means is being aware of yourself, Self Awareness, really important and aware of if you’re coming on too strong or not, you’re not interjecting enough into a conversation. Somewhere, it’s about where the other person is coming from and their awareness and it’s more about emotional level, right? And but having that confidence, so building your confidence in that you’re self aware, and confident that you’re going to get to the right answer or right solution for your customer or potential customer. 

And so it’s really about just being self aware, grounded in your values. Living yourself, living your life from your true your best self. As I said, it really is a foundational tool that can help you tap into your best self to many techniques, physical physical movement, as well as breathing and the meditations tied into that as well. So I used to teach Tai Chi classes and as well, I ran a Yoga and Tai Chi center actually for a year and a half. I was asked to run it by the company, the organization I got my certifications from after I retired. 

Which I did and enjoyed thoroughly. It was a great experience, but I had something more to give than that. But it’s a great opportunity for physical activity. It is really great when it is Tai Chi or anything if you’d like to walk or workout or run or whatever it might be. Physical activity really stimulates your body, it gets your juices flowing, it’s good for your body, your hormones, your energy. And then allow yourself that quiet time to just reflection. A lot of just a little bit of it can be five minutes, 15 minutes. That reflection time is really really important in those basic tools that I learned through my practice and Tai Chi.

Bob Woods  30:25

So as some of that stuff in your book, which is entitled five minute mastery, this is transforming your stress to success and mastering what’s important, do you cover those types of things? Do you get into more of the business side as opposed to the Tai Chi side? How is that working?

John J. Fenton  30:45

It’s really well, the concept of five minute mastery is that everything can change in five minutes. Okay, everything can change. And I base that on my personalized personal experience. So I was in a meeting with a client who passed out during the meeting with my client. And I just stopped breathing, actually.

Bob Woods  31:08

Wow. 

John J. Fenton  31:09

And was rushed to the hospital. Thankfully, someone was there to administer CPR, saved my life. But the matter just a few minutes, everything can change. In turn get turned upside down. Well, you can shift your focus, you can shift your mood you can shift your energy from you might be an you might be a period where you’re on your way down, right, you mean things are gonna be working out, you’re not getting the sales that you want to get, you know, the money’s not going in your bank account. Like you’d like to see whatever it might be soon as down periods.

But you can shift that mindset into a position where you put yourself emotionally and in a mindset, we envision yourself seeing yourself achieving the things you want to achieve. And so choosing visualization, that type of thing. But in five minutes time, you can shift everything just for your own focus, your self awareness and your breathing. So the concept starts there. So I include some techniques on breathing, how to sharpen your focus, how to be the best leader you can be also includes some of my I also have eight ideas about how to be the best leader you can be. Include some of the things we talked about today as well or in that book.

Bob Woods  32:25

Okay, great. Great. So um, that’s probably the spin and the way that I like to wrap up all these interviews in that I love those one thing you can do right now kind of takeaway. So, John Fenton, if there’s one thing our audience can do right now to distress their professional and personal lives, what would that one thing be?

John J. Fenton  32:48

Take a pause. Allow yourself to take five minutes. Just focus on your breathing. I laid out in the book but really simply want to inhale through your nose and exhale through your mouth, very slowly. The term is box breathing for a part breathing. Breathe in, slowly, hold it for four count, breathe out slowly from four count, hold that as you continue to breathe, and don’t force the breath. 

But what that does is it just realigns your mindset, your body, your hormones, it moves you from a potentially fight or flight, stressful situation into rest and digest. I encourage you to start with five minutes. Of course, you could do more than that, and be great. But at least five minutes, you’d be amazed how quickly you can shift your mood, shift your energy and shift your focus.

Bob Woods  33:39

Yeah, that’s something that I also read about box breathing literally, I hate using that word, but it’s really true literally this weekend too. And it was framed and actually something else that that you brought up with, with a tier one operative and the Navy SEALs do that exactly. calm themselves down was actually down.

John J. Fenton  34:00

Exactly. I mean, think about your mean guns or you know, these weapons are going off around them and these missions are doing and they teach them forepart breathing box breathing, so they can calm themselves down in center, the centering themselves, right. What it does is all the commotion and chaos is going outside of you. You kind of pull back not physically, but you’re pulling back to center yourself. So you be clear about what’s the next best action I can take.

Bob Woods  34:29

That’s something, that’s something. So I’m sure that our listeners are going to want to reach out and contact you. What’s the best way to do that? And is there anything else that you’d like to refer them to? out there in cyberspace as they say? 

John J. Fenton  34:45

Just send me a note at JohnJFenton.com. You can also visit my website www.JohnJFenton.com. Real easy. There’s a little box where you can connect with me there are also on LinkedIn. I’m on LinkedIn. John J. Fenton, CEO coach, connect with you and share more about ways I might be able to help you be the best leader you can be.

Bob Woods  35:11

He has a fantastic LinkedIn profile asked me how.

John J. Fenton  35:19

So great.

Bob Woods  35:21

Yeah, no worries. No, no worries. It was a blast working with you on your profile. It was great. So John J. Fenton. We’re just going to call him the CEO Sensei. Thank you for joining us today. Really appreciate your time, John.

 John J. Fenton  35:36

Thank you so much, Bob. It’s been a great pleasure. 

Bob Woods  35:40

Sure. And Thank you for streaming this episode of making sales social. So remember, when you’re out this week, be sure to make your sales social. 

Outro  35:50

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