Episode 324: Mastering Referral Partnerships
In this episode of Making Sales Social, we welcome Daniel Andrews, a seasoned entrepreneur and the “Chief Instigator” at Networking and Action International. With over 36 years of self-employment experience across four careers, Daniel shares his insights on moving beyond surface-level networking to building genuine, impactful professional networks. He explains how mastering referral partnerships requires intentionality, authenticity, and asking the right questions to create lasting business relationships.
Tune in to learn how to stop networking and start connecting with the right people to elevate your business success.
View Transcript
Intro
0:00:00 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Welcome to the show.
00:01:15:06 – 00:01:48:07
Bob Woods
My guest today is Daniel Andrews of Networking and Action International, as well as many of his own endeavors. Daniel is a native and residents and resident of Columbia, South Carolina. But I’ve driven through there often, actually. He shows business people how to identify, find, meet, and nurture professional relationships with key referral partners. Fundamentally, he shows business people how to stop just networking and instead start building true networks.
00:01:48:09 – 00:02:09:14
Bob Woods
This is his fourth career, and I’ve been there, and done that kind of thing myself. He has been successfully self-employed for 36 years, and that number actually goes up to 50. If you start with that lemonade stand that he had in first grade with that. Welcome to Making Sales Social
Daniel Andrews.
00:02:09:15 – 00:02:23:01
Daniel Andrews
Thank you. It’s good to be here, Bob. Thanks for the invitation.
00:02:09:15 – 00:02:23:01
Bob Woods
Sure. Glad to have you here. So our first traditional question always is what does Making Sales Social mean to you?
00:02:23:01 – 00:02:49:16
Daniel Andrews
The way I think it ought to be applied is to be authentic. I think this may come up as we kind of expand on some concepts. But I see too often people using a cocktail party style of networking and relationship building and finding out who belongs in your social circle is a completely separate concept from finding out who belongs in your professional circle.
00:02:49:18 – 00:03:17:01
Daniel Andrews
So I think if you’re going to make it social or relational, that relates to being intentional and authentic. But you can’t just do business with people that you’re friendly with.
00:02:49:18 – 00:03:17:01
Bob Woods
Okay, so what is that kind of style, I guess?
00:02:49:18 – 00:03:17:01
Daniel Andrews
Well, I can illuminate a little bit, and I think you’re going to I’ll try to send it out because it makes a good point, which is the title on my LinkedIn profile.
00:03:17:01 – 00:03:34:09
Daniel Andrews
If you could look at it, if anybody cares is the chief instigator. And I use that title because it means I’m willing to tell you what works, even if you don’t think it’s what works. Because I have data to back up that it’s funny. I have people all the time like, Well, I’m doing X or I have a system and I start getting the results.
00:03:34:10 – 00:03:51:11
Daniel Andrews
What am I doing wrong? And I go using the system and they’re like, No, no, I just got to do it better. I’m like, No, you asked what you’re doing wrong. That system has already got a built-in limit. And one of those is the notion that you know, well, let’s start with this phrase. It’s a phrase you’ve heard a thousand times.
00:03:51:11 – 00:04:09:04
Daniel Andrews
You’ve said a hundred times mastery, audiences heard a thousand times miss your audience and said a hundred times. And it’s this phrase people do business with folks they know like and trust. What’s the most important word that’s the most important word. That sentence is business. I don’t care what you are going to say, you’re going to get it wrong.
00:04:09:04 – 00:04:28:24
Daniel Andrews
The most important or that sentence is business. Here’s a better way to think of it. Are there people that have been to your house for game night? You’ve been with them down to the bowling alley. They join you for the football tailgate, but you wouldn’t actually hire them to do what you do. Are there people that you hired or would endorse, recommend, and refer?
But you just don’t picture them at your house or game night or tailgate or down the bowling again? Okay. So if your model is finding out if Bob Woods is likable, that’s great. If you need extra guests at the tailgate. But if you’re trying to find out if Bob was referable and does he belongs in my professional network, you’ve got to ask a totally different set of questions.
00:04:47:17 – 00:05:12:20
Daniel Andrews
I’m not saying you can’t ask about the fam and house life and, you know, you look all of a sudden did you go on vacation, whatever the case may be. But those don’t move the professional conversation form. They don’t do anything to find out if this person was in the progression circle. So social selling to me means prioritizing authenticity and relationship analysis, taking social connection with business connection.
00:05:12:23 – 00:05:45:16
Bob Woods
Okay, that sounds good. So I’m I’m still amazed at the four careers thing. So why don’t you quickly walk us through what you’ve done so far? And I’m especially interested in how you got from being involved with Big Lemonade to doing what you’re doing now.
00:05:12:23 – 00:05:45:16
Daniel Andrews
The insurer and given us the shortest bio podcast recently. He’s like, I need a three or four-paragraph bio and I’m like, Nobody here for the show knows I’m like a weekend.
00:05:45:17 – 00:06:07:20
Daniel Andrews
I mean, the last time I read this it was on a podcast, right? So I don’t even like my biography, whatever I want to do other people get. But so we’ll do the four careers and I’ll jump back to Lemonade Stand. So I took a summer job in 1988 with CATCo country, so that’s an independent contractor. So I was self-employed at a corporate ran behind me.
00:06:07:20 – 00:06:24:06
Daniel Andrews
Right. A very systematized process. Been around since 1949, 91, if you count the wherever cook ran in the cycle. But Coca-Cola is a direct sales product, very well established. They have a great system for showing on college on some ended up keeping the job for 15 years because it pays better than most people think. A job selling jobs.
00:06:24:06 – 00:06:44:17
Daniel Andrews
Okay. And that’s where these sorts came from as award season, from that past history. And then after that, I moved from my hometown, Columbia, South Carolina, where I live now. That’s what I’m pointing out now, even though the way I was here then moved away and switched to B2B, which is where I really started to learn what a network knew, right?
00:06:44:17 – 00:07:01:06
Daniel Andrews
We had worked on referrals at a very low level and started to be in a city where you don’t know anybody and therefore trust levels have to be higher, which really took on a whole new meaning. And that’s where the wheels started to turn when I only thought I knew and understood referrals and networks. And so that was a big shift for me there.
00:07:01:06 – 00:07:27:00
Daniel Andrews
And I learned it by grinding it out, meaning doing it wrong, doing it right, taking notes. In both cases, mentors, reading, studying so and so. I may have jumped to B2B, but because I did not understand referrals and networks, I should say, and because of what was sitting right, I know anybody in Fail and I closed my employee benefits brokerage and went to work with a company selling direct mail to car dealerships.
00:07:27:02 – 00:07:47:01
Daniel Andrews
And that’s about as boring as you think it would be. Even if you’re an industry, it’s still pretty boring. But the one thing if you take your car to the dealership for an oil change, the one thing they know for sure about sooner or later, is the beginning of the oil change. So there’s a whole direct mail process behind windshield wipers and paint jobs and oil changes and batteries and eventually new car.
00:07:47:04 – 00:08:10:05
Daniel Andrews
But I built my network and I built my understanding of networks. And when I left that position because, in turnover, they had made it a corporate office. I went back to my employee benefits brokerage and launched it successfully. So that was career number two. And went to two and a half to right back to number two. Right? So I went to three and then back to number two.
00:08:10:06 – 00:08:25:29
Daniel Andrews
Did it quite well. Move to Houston, Texas, Encounter Network in action. And my first wife had said three years, if you could ever figure out a way to make a living on all the handshakes you generated between other people, right? I said, Yeah, the only model I know of is a finder’s fee model. And it’s problematic for a whole bunch of reasons.
00:08:25:29 – 00:08:41:27
Daniel Andrews
It’s not a good approach to life in business, so I’m not going to engage in that. But yeah, I wish there was a model as a client of Network and Action in Houston, Texas. I’m like, and when I went to move back home, Dad was in his eighties with cancer mom and stepdad, but starting to get ill too.
00:08:41:29 – 00:09:01:08
Daniel Andrews
I came back home years ago and I said to the founder, I said, I hate that you guys on Network in Action in South Carolina. Yeah, because they were only in Texas at the time. And he said, Well, we can fix that. So Korea, number four, became the model that I’d always wondered if it existed outside of Korea, how to make a living, breathing interactions for people and bringing the right folks into it.
00:09:01:08 – 00:09:26:18
Daniel Andrews
So the last eight years, I really put a lot of focus on that now to make sure people understand that it wasn’t a jump from age six to age 20, you know, lemonade stand to CATCo. It was a very direct line. From there I went to selling greeting cards door to door in the neighborhood that I went to selling programs at University of South Carolina football games on the weekends for eight years, fifth grade through 12th grade to selling Eminem’s to my classmates.
00:09:26:18 – 00:09:44:27
Daniel Andrews
Once I got a driver’s license, I could go down to the wholesale and he got me downtown, where the building is still. There’s no longer a wholesale organic company, but it’s still there in downtown Columbia. And you can see the faded paint, palmetto, Palmetto and the cigar and that, right? So it was always his thoughts about the sale.
00:09:44:27 – 00:10:04:05
Daniel Andrews
And I think part of the reason I’m drawn to Susan is because my father was a fighter pilot and they kind of complement one man compared to another from a fighter pilot’s perspective you don’t suck that bad. And I loved the sales environment. I mean, he aged well and before he passed he gave me a lot of grace and we healed a lot of things.
00:10:04:05 – 00:10:22:07
Daniel Andrews
So I just want to make sure you guys know I don’t get a terrorist with my dad. My father died on good terms with me, but I was craving a sales environment because you know where you stand. They publish the standings daily or weekly. You know what it takes to get the job done. Nobody promises you one paycheck and gives you another.
00:10:22:07 – 00:10:54:03
Daniel Andrews
Nobody tells you that you could have done better if this is what you did, this is what you got. Right? And I’ve always been drawn to that. The idea that I get to determine where the goalposts are, nobody’s going to win. So that’s why I ended up on Salesman.
00:10:22:07 – 00:10:54:03
Bob Woods
Yeah. So with that great title of chief business instigator, I mean, that’s something you normally don’t see in a business org chart because how do you define that? And especially how does that define what you do?
00:10:54:03 – 00:11:11:25
Daniel Andrews
I love leading with that. I’m always leery of self-appointed typos, particularly things that make people sound grand. Right. You know, I remember in a Zoom call I was in and the guy actually next to his name, he had added the words master connector. Turns out he wasn’t, by the way, about it.
00:11:11:25 – 00:11:28:00
Daniel Andrews
So it’s always interesting when people get well, and I’ll make a reference here in a minute. But anyway, you know, I went with chief instigator because it’s not meant to build me out, Right? It’s just a fact. And that’s this If your system isn’t working, I will tell you you don’t need to figure out how to work the system better.
00:11:28:02 – 00:11:52:15
Daniel Andrews
You need a different system right? And that’s why I feel confident. Chief Instigator I start with the phrase people in business don’t need more connections and need better connections. Everybody agrees with that. And from there on I start to get very controversial, i.e. people tend to divide. The first is for people to know, right? One of the things that I say with confidence about data, by the way, is these are not opinions and try not to have opinions as little as possible positions based on data.
00:11:52:17 – 00:12:21:00
Daniel Andrews
You don’t need more people in your network. You need fewer. You can spend less time, not more, and get exponentially better results. So I can prove that mathematically and through experience. Right? Another is the finder’s fee doesn’t work. Don’t pay people 10% of the deal to bring you deals. That’s that’s a losing proposition across the board. It’s a losing proposition in all but .001 percent of the cases so don’t do it another as you know that idea of, you know, people do those folks they know I can trust.
00:12:21:00 – 00:12:41:10
Daniel Andrews
Right? Or one of my favorites. You know, somebody said, you know, they message me, they reached out on LinkedIn, made a connection. I said, yeah, what are you trying to complex Right? And out in the door? Well, I’m out here building my network, right? I’m like, No, you’re building your connections, right? You know, you know, you know, I well, people in activism, folks I know I can trust, I said, Well, you can’t build no, I can trust these social media.
00:12:41:11 – 00:13:09:02
Daniel Andrews
You can build familiarity. That’s it. That’s all you can build is familiarity, because there are plenty of clowns on politics and government and business masquerading as nice people. Right? And they’re not. So. That’s right. So here’s the other one. I just need to find the right people. I need to find the right community. It is easier to become the right person than it is to find the right people.
00:13:09:02 – 00:13:29:23
Daniel Andrews
And I want I say, to become the right person. I don’t mean characterized. I assume I’ll be able to care. It’s easier to develop the right skill set than it is to find the right people because if you have the right skill set, you will acknowledge that everybody you ever need to reach for the rest of your career is accessible to you today.
00:13:29:26 – 00:13:47:10
Daniel Andrews
Now, you can’t. You don’t have time on the counter to call them today, but everyone that you need to reach to be successful in your whole career is already inside your first year, probably at third degree. So you’re networks, network, network, which really is by definition, your network. You know, your network doesn’t have a network. Your network is your network.
00:13:47:10 – 00:14:11:02
Daniel Andrews
And their network. Right? Your number is second third and fourth degree.
00:13:47:10 – 00:14:11:02
Bob Woods
That’s a good way to put it. I like that. I’ve never heard it put quite like that before. That’s that’s a it’s a really good way to put it. And I believe that this is where your key referral partners’ things come in so fresh today.
00:14:11:04 – 00:14:36:28
Bob Woods
So yes, identifying, finding, meeting, and especially nurturing those relationships. So let’s just dive head first and how that works. And, and I think you pretty much define key referral partners already. But, if you could put like a really specific short definition of that first and then get into how to, that would be good.
00:14:11:04 – 00:14:36:28
Daniel Andrews
Yeah, sure. And I think it’s worthy of a significant definition because this is a really critical component.
00:14:37:00 – 00:14:55:09
Daniel Andrews
There are plenty of people who know what I do that does not make it year for one. There are plenty of people who know me well enough to refer me as I am or for a role in them. I have credibility with them, right? But the vast majority, of those people don’t come in contact with very many people that need me.
00:14:55:21 – 00:15:21:19
Daniel Andrews
So to me, a key referral partner implies the ability to generate a high quantity of quality introductions to ideal clients. That’s a key overall source here for partners, one that we can share back and forth. So by absolute definition, those people are people selling to the people that you’re selling to, but they’re not selling what you’re selling
00:15:21:19 – 00:15:24:26
Daniel Andrews
parallel salespeople, as it were. I gave you some very specific examples. A real estate agent and a mortgage lender may never buy a thing from the other, but the mortgage lenders’ prospects and customers need to be introduced to the real estate agent, real estate agents, prospects and customers, and amenities. The mortgage is at a slightly higher level, meaning a price, a little more thought, but just as valuable as a moving company and a divorce attorney.
00:15:53:06 – 00:16:10:10
Daniel Andrews
Not all the moving companies, customers, divorce or, you know, all the divorce companies, customers that are really coming. But there’s a higher percentage of people that are moving, and going through divorce than men or women on the street. Right? Meaning if I were a divorce attorney in my neighborhood, I would knock on every door. I would knock on the doors of the ones that have moving vans in front.
00:16:10:10 – 00:16:33:25
Daniel Andrews
Right? I’d save the time. I would knock on three, not 300. John Yates, one of my clients is a salary negotiation coach, Amanda of Alabama, one of my trusted friends and business partners, is a resume writing search. Yep. They are both perfectly suited, meaning whatever John does to enlarge his database of prospects and customers, referral partners with Amanda
00:16:33:25 – 00:16:50:27
Daniel Andrews
Referral partners. So the people, whatever marketing or word of mouth or whatever he works buying is going to increase his number of prospects. That gives him more people to do business with and more people to share with them and a man going to do the same meaning you find a point of overlap. My customers are highly likely to be your customers.
00:16:50:27 – 00:17:12:26
Daniel Andrews
Your customers. I want to be the customer. So that’s a referral partnership. As I grow my database of customers from sources as John grows, his database of customers is a database of customers and prospects separate from Amanda. That creates introductions he can make for me. As Amanda finds prospects and customers separate from being referred by John, that creates more competition for you.
00:17:12:29 – 00:17:34:19
Daniel Andrews
That’s a key referral partnership. So if people have 6 to 10 of those, which is not a big number, I don’t care what industry you’re in 6 to 10 and you have a consistent cycle of meeting with them once a month on the average and on the average every time you do. I have a lead for Bob. Bob, I have a late three, right?
00:17:34:20 – 00:17:52:04
Daniel Andrews
Meaning there’s no such thing as too often if we’re finding mutual married, somebody said often you go back to the same wells and often you ask your husband for a hot right. If you’re mutually supportive, you can’t. You be like, I don’t know, it feels really weird by several wives. I don’t know. I don’t want to demand too much from you.
00:17:52:04 – 00:18:12:07
Daniel Andrews
I just think I could get by with one hug. Are you okay with that? You like what now? The experience of a high in holding going on a date. It’s a mutually beneficial experience. So if I’m me, if I have people in my world that are key referral partners and I’m supporting them with the right introductions, they’re supporting me once a month.
00:18:12:09 – 00:18:40:19
Daniel Andrews
Not a big number one referral on average per month, not a big number, but you have 6 to 10 of those that have 72 to 120 warm endorsements. Yeah, to the ideal candidates, not your target market, but your target target market. Your ideal candidate now takes a couple of months, usually for your key or four partners, to move from a very generalized sense of who your customers are to target to ideal.
00:18:40:21 – 00:19:12:26
Daniel Andrews
Right? Even though you’re told on the first time you got kids, you got to tell them more than once, right, right, right, right. So it takes a few months for that to evolve. But once you’ve got those 6 to 10 people in place, you’re only getting ideal candidates, clients ideal prospects, and you’re only getting them on your calendar through a warm introduction or an endorsement, meaning they show up on your calendar with the propensity to believe you because they believe in the person that referred you.
00:19:12:28 – 00:19:42:06
Bob Woods
Yeah, yeah. That’s a really good way to put it, especially because, you know, speaking of these meetings and things like that, I’ve been involved in, you know, probably not the level of what you’re talking about, but like networking groups and, you know, lead sharing groups and things like that. And where you can just tell me really quickly your thoughts on both of those types of groups.
00:19:42:08 – 00:20:01:16
Bob Woods
And, you know, I don’t know if you’d say one would be better for a business person than another or I don’t know what you know what I’m saying now?
00:19:42:08 – 00:20:01:16
Daniel Andrews
Sure, sure, sure. Well, the first thing I want to say is let’s assume ethics, right? Good. Hard sweethearts. Right. Okay. So we’re assuming ethics, but if it works, is going to get done.
00:20:01:16 – 00:20:25:11
Daniel Andrews
It’s bad. Right now. The problem with a leads group mentality and most I call these groups, call themselves networking groups, right? They’re lead groups. But part of the challenge you run into there is it’s very roster-based, meaning you’re expected to refer simply because they’re on the roster. And if you’re not on the roster, you’re no longer term, meaning you’re trapped in a cycle.
00:20:25:11 – 00:20:41:27
Daniel Andrews
It’s a treadmill. You can’t get off if you become dependent on those leads, right? If you’re not actually building any real relationships. Our time I got relation to people in there right now and prove it. They may go golfing with you if you quit, but if you quit the group, you’re not. They’re not allowed to give you business.
00:20:42:01 – 00:21:02:12
Daniel Andrews
That means you don’t have a professional. You might still have a golfing buddy, might still have a best man for your wedding, but you’re not going to get away from them. So you have to know reality, Right? But if you’re expected to refer, regardless of the quality of the work that’s being done, if you’re based on a quota, so be able to throw me names into a hat rather than not have a name because they get in trouble for not having a name to throw into to they often mask it.
00:21:02:15 – 00:21:19:01
Daniel Andrews
You’re getting a low-quality, right? I’m not interested in what I’m. I’m interested in people who know me well enough to give me one ideal client for months. And if you don’t have one this month, I rather skip it than have you give me low-quality. Right? Because you think you. All right. So anything is predicated on quotas.
00:21:19:01 – 00:21:45:19
Daniel Andrews
Anything predicated on the roster is fundamentally transactional and they get in the way. You can make it up on volume. Right. But you’re not building a relationship and you’re not building, right? I mean, yeah, you’re not. The whole relationship is very transactional, right? And very frustrating. And they believe they hear it is better, right? Because they’re trying to make it up on quantity when again, you only need 6 to 10 people in your world.
00:21:45:20 – 00:22:03:04
Daniel Andrews
You really only need 6 to 10. Right? Okay. So a now where you might have a better time and energy to it. They want to do well, but they stop at trust. Building awareness is one thing most of the ultimate networking group and all they accomplish is awareness. Here’s my card, Bob is what I do. This I want you to for me to.
00:22:03:09 – 00:22:18:20
Daniel Andrews
I don’t. I don’t know. You’re not going to firm. They may get to trust. You can get to trust in a group. They may meet with you once or twice after that to build trust and then they sit back and wait for the phone to ring. So they’ve gone from awareness to trust, which most people ever make that almost everybody I’ve ever met, with the exception, of maybe three people.
00:22:18:20 – 00:22:39:14
Daniel Andrews
And I stop at trust and wait for the phone to ring. They do not have a system where they’re back in a Zoom call every 20, 30, 45, 60 days, or I’m Bob. This is our monthly call where I open up my Rolodex and you open up your key for me. That’s the app for use. Right? And again, people go, Well, I don’t want to ask that often.
00:22:39:16 – 00:22:59:24
Daniel Andrews
We don’t. You have something to offer. Is that a key referral partner or a key referral source of fear for a partner? They’re anxious to meet with you because there’s mutual value, right? Like referral source. You can wear them out, but a key referral partner is never worn out by your presence because you’re supporting them like they’re supporting you.
00:22:59:27 – 00:23:18:06
Daniel Andrews
So people don’t bother to get into a cycle. Now, I think you not only have to do that between a while, months before the other person’s got the hang of it and you’re finished coaching your job. On the difference between target and ideal, but you get the rhythm going and at that point, there’s plenty people who put themselves on my calendar for 15 minutes.
00:23:18:06 – 00:23:35:05
Daniel Andrews
They don’t show. They just know that’s my 15 minutes to focus on them for the month, Right? All right. Right. You know, they just put in the right after they book my 15-minute slot, it says in handy to know. And they go, I won’t be there. I’m just counting on you for referrals in this event because I can give them or they have already done it for me.
00:23:35:05 – 00:23:49:11
Daniel Andrews
Right. And they know that that’s the best way to make sure I’ve got the time. Right? So you can reach a point where you don’t have to me. But if you think about it, if you’ve got ten people and you meet for a half hour, am on the hang after client once a month, that’s 5 hours a lot.
00:23:49:14 – 00:24:18:14
Daniel Andrews
That’s no immense, that’s no open networking, that’s no leads groups. And so now we’re in groups that’s like Chamber of Commerce. That’s nothing. It’s ten zooms a month, 5 hours, and top 120 warm introductions to qualified candidates. That’s more than most people’s business can stand. So you need to be doing you spend less time with fewer people, and build the right relationship.
00:24:18:16 – 00:24:54:00
Daniel Andrews
The more is in the authenticity, the more as in what you’re able to give and receive.
00:24:18:16 – 00:24:54:00
Bob Woods
Okay. All right. Great, great. So in your experience, now we’re talking going from that high mark probably to a low mark. So what are the most common mistakes business pros make in networking and how can they avoid them, especially? I mean, we’re not talking about events necessarily here, but I mean, you know, we are all going out to events more so I guess that in that key.
00:24:54:03 – 00:25:20:01
Daniel Andrews
Okay. Sure. The mistake amateurs make people are new to the world or that haven’t matured to a certain point. The mistake they make is thinking that all of the value is going to happen in the event they don’t know what the next steps are. Some people don’t even know that there are next steps right. But if they don’t know the next steps exist or what they are, then you’re forced to try to create all the value inside that moment.
00:25:21:09 – 00:25:37:05
Daniel Andrews
At the event. Righ?. And you cannot create any value at an event in a group setting. I’ll come back to that because people are arguing with me in their heads. I’ll tell you what you think you’re thinking, but it’s not what I just said at an event in a group setting. You cannot create that.
00:25:37:05 – 00:26:04:09
Daniel Andrews
You can lose value. You can say something stupid sexist or racist. You can lose great. You can maintain credit. Right? My Johnson, good friend of mine, you know, business connection, friend. He’s leaving as I’m coming in. Right. Neither one of us has time to stop, but mine goes and I go. But if he said and I turn my head, I’ve lost Graham so I can lose, I can maintain.
00:26:04:16 – 00:26:22:23
Daniel Andrews
You cannot build cred in a group. So they stop and they try to force all the value into that moment when there’s no value to be had, and that forces them into one or two months. They’re very similar, but they’re first cousin. Some people think the same thing in my mind, the first need to prospect. You’re going to find the thing about yes, no, maybe going to be.
00:26:22:25 – 00:26:42:29
Daniel Andrews
And Obama thinks there’s just no way we’re going to be targeting Obama. Thanks, Suzanne. Yes. No, Maybe going to every great speed prospecting. They’d have been better off going into the parking lot. Slammed a business card under everyone. Save the time, save the gallery, save the money, go, and or it’s close. Cousin marketing by hand. Here’s my card, Bob.
00:26:42:29 – 00:26:59:04
Daniel Andrews
Call me if any of me putting up here through cards. If you ever think of somebody that needs me, I have them call me. Right? I don’t know. You all have to refer you. Right? don’t. I don’t. I don’t distrust you. I don’t trust you. I don’t distrust you. I just don’t have any trust built. We’re starting at zero.
00:26:59:04 – 00:27:22:29
Daniel Andrews
You’ve got no credibility with me. I don’t know if I would right? I don’t know enough to know if you. The strong person in front. Now, Erin, as I say, not. It’s not true. Me and David had a great conversation at the networking event. So now you have a great conversation adjacent to the networking events. Yeah, you were at the event, but you literally or figuratively stepped aside and got into a brief 1 to 1.
00:27:23:02 – 00:27:38:20
Daniel Andrews
Yeah, but in a group you cannot game friends. You can only select who you’re going to build with. Then you have to have them out. So amateurs try to cram it all into the event when there’s not to be an event. They don’t do any next steps, so they don’t ever see the value, which is why they keep trying to cram more and more of it into the front end.
00:27:38:27 – 00:27:55:05
Daniel Andrews
Right? Find the right people, find the right group instead of being the right person. And again, I don’t mean character having the right tools to build the right relationships. What experts do, is people that are better at it, but they still drop off as they take the extra steps to build the trust and the credibility or the referrer ability.
00:27:55:05 – 00:28:15:11
Daniel Andrews
If you want to think of it that way, they build the trust in the referral building and then they stop without a system in place. They just hope that someone else is thinking about them, right? David Our Rate of Growth wrote a great book called Getting Things Done, and it’s all about getting things done. And in the book he makes a really solid point and I’m sorry, my phone is ringing.
00:28:15:11 – 00:28:32:11
Daniel Andrews
Hopefully, it’s not picking up on your microphone. And he makes a really solid point. People don’t like to think it’s natural. They do it as little as possible. Lest you think I’m a cynic, ponder for a moment your experience on the roadways of your own hometown and how you get people. I like to think it’s they do as little as possible.
00:28:32:13 – 00:28:55:25
Daniel Andrews
And what I mean by that is, yeah, not cynicism. Right? But Bob, I commend you on referral and then you go about your business. Well, you’ve got a lot of things on your mind, but as time goes on and you have to spend thinking about business, whose business? You think about it?
00:28:32:13 – 00:28:55:25
Bob Woods
Mine.
00:28:32:13 – 00:28:55:25
Daniel Andrews
I’m kidding myself. If I think that you’re going to put much effort at all, if any, because 83 people ask you to think about their business, too.
00:28:55:27 – 00:29:17:13
Daniel Andrews
That’s why you get people’s calendars and you don’t get on the calendar. Meaning I don’t finish one meeting book in the next one. If there’s another one to be had, if the values trickle out, we leave it alone. Right? Or somebody will put themselves on my calendar about myself and somebody else’s counter and the act of putting them on the calendar, both consciously and subconsciously, brings me to the top of their mind forces me to think about their business and then to think about it.
00:29:17:14 – 00:29:32:11
Daniel Andrews
When I bought a green Prius, all I could see was green Prius had nothing to do with an evergreen Prius on the road. Had to do with the fact that I bring Prius to my attention and therefore I see them. So when I put myself in their car, my count or both of them are elevated, both consciously and subconsciously thinking who to about me.
00:29:32:13 – 00:29:53:03
Daniel Andrews
So when the meeting rolls on, I’ve got value for them and people stop. They wait for the boundary. And I’m like, That’s because you believe that giving referrals is a one-way street and you don’t believe that you’re truly in service to the other person.
Yeah, I could not agree more with that. Yeah. So they stop at trust and never take it a step further.
00:29:53:06 – 00:30:12:19
Daniel Andrews
I’ve known very successful businesspeople whose high watermark was two referrals from one client, and I’m like, they’re about three or 400 leads that you’ve never gotten because you never asked people and they weren’t your diamond, your clients. There are people better situated in Kevin’s world to give them referrals for his own clients. Now, those clients shouldn’t or could or they don’t believe in him, right?
00:30:12:22 – 00:30:40:19
Daniel Andrews
But they’re just people who are better situated than his clients to offer more clients. And he’s never bothered to figure out who those people are and spend time.
00:30:12:22 – 00:30:40:19
Bob Woods
But ask quickly about someone who has successfully done that. And I’m sure you have lots of success stories, but can you share one where you know where someone has done this effectively and what they’ve gotten out of it? And, you know, obviously, you can’t get into too many specifics.
00:30:40:19 – 00:31:00:04
Daniel Andrews
I’ll just quote the testimonials on my website so I can be as clear as we want to be. Right? To admit, Mandy, I can’t remember which one. She’s divorced. So the camera, which one’s from my name. I think she’s Mandy’s email now right? So it was Mandy Anderson’s, Mandy Wills.
00:31:00:12 – 00:31:20:19
Daniel Andrews
Mandy emails right now my website says one introduction from Dan grated $250,000 in net worth. Not gross, not net net worth. It’s a very nice number. Suzanne Taylor King said in her first 90 days of working with me on how to do this better and as a successful business person to front millions of companies before, she said triple my revenue in her coaching business.
00:31:20:19 – 00:31:44:26
Daniel Andrews
And so the first 90 days. Strictly true or false, right? Christina Gosling did a whole case study for me about the video on a printed case study on how much more money she’s earned because she’s adopted the skills that we teach a coach here. All of these things, right, exist out there. Great example. And I will leave his last name off.
00:31:44:29 – 00:32:06:25
Daniel Andrews
Not that we’re not close, but I haven’t asked permission to use it at all. Even leave his first name off because you forgot who it is. McGough didn’t like them broken, but he’s a headhunter and I was introduced in the LinkedIn messaging. Send him a link to it. Okay. Yeah. Is it that I sent him a LinkedIn message? Right? We ran a thread.
00:32:06:28 – 00:32:29:11
Daniel Andrews
He said, Let’s connect individually. I did get an auto-responder. He had his autoresponder and was not a problem because he engaged me right. I’ll tell you what Autoresponder said in just a second. And I have screencaps of this. I mean, I believe this isn’t true. I have screencaps. And he says to me, Excuse me, a headhunter, executive recruiter, right placement specialist.
00:32:29:13 – 00:32:51:09
Daniel Andrews
Do you know how those people get paid?
00:32:29:13 – 00:32:51:09
Bob Woods
when someone gets hired.
00:32:29:13 – 00:32:51:09
Daniel Andrews
To place people in jobs and they get paid when? Right? Sometimes there’s a lag of 3060 days, but they have to put some major because the autoresponder says due to the number of messages I receive, you can only read it plainly because I use this to make appointments.
00:32:51:11 – 00:33:17:27
Daniel Andrews
So I’ll just read it directly right from the screencaps. And if anybody believes you can alter screencaps, I’ll do a screen share and scroll back in my thread with this guy. Due to the volume of messages I receive, my responses are prioritized by one connection and connection referrals, meaning people he knows and people referred by people he knows to job seekers responding specifically to jobs.
00:33:17:27 – 00:33:52:05
Daniel Andrews
I’m working. He’s got a 3.5, but who cares what 3.5 hours have to do with this community? He puts his network ahead of his paycheck because one candidate trying to fill one job that he’s been paying to fill is one payday. But his network is a lifetime’s worth of payments. If you’ve got 6 to 10 people, the people that I get areas too, they’re described as the most networked around, are fully networked.
00:33:52:07 – 00:34:09:14
Daniel Andrews
I have walked into their office and in that half sentence, there are two key concepts I have to be walked in. You cannot cloak your way onto the other side of their desk. You’ve got to be walked into their office. They are not out because they’re done. They’ve got there 6 to 10. They’ve got more businesses. They can shake a stick out.
00:34:09:14 – 00:34:27:23
Daniel Andrews
They take care of the referral partners. One of your customers too. And it all comes together in the and this is what’s amazing and extra risk are you saying I’m sure you’re not if you like going to the cocktail parties, go, man, you’re going to stop putting pressure on yourself because that’s not where the value is, right? Introverts love this.
00:34:27:23 – 00:34:47:07
Daniel Andrews
They go, Well, I’m like, Don’t sell the extroverts. It’s easier for an introvert to get this because you don’t have to convince them they need fewer ones less time. They’re like, thank God. Right? They’re excited, right? I said, The introverts have the edge because they’re already geared towards fewer people, less time people like you, and that’s what you need.
00:34:47:07 – 00:35:07:06
Daniel Andrews
So you got to convince your extroverts to ease up for a minute. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yes, I’m saying I said, what do we do with all these business cards? It seems a shame. She goes, I don’t know, throw out my throw around. She goes, You message these people four times over two years. Anybody that’s never replied, to you and four times over to you, I never order you.
00:35:07:06 – 00:35:27:02
Daniel Andrews
I said, they don’t dislike you, they’re just they don’t see any value. And I said she’s a throwaway. Get away from your, you know, don’t want the stack of business cards to convince you that there’s value there. You’ve already tested when there’s no mutual value. So awesome don’t want to be around.
00:35:07:06 – 00:35:27:02
Bob Woods
Yeah yeah, I absolutely agree And she’s right.
00:35:27:04 – 00:35:55:13
Daniel Andrews
Plus, you know, I’m going to give her a bride who’s like, I’ve emailed them four times already. We’re not doing this. One gets glue.
00:35:27:04 – 00:35:55:13
Bob Woods
So I’m sure after this there are going to be a lot of people out there who who are going to want to get in contact with you more. So if anyone wants to get in touch with you, find out more about exactly how you can help them with this process. How would they do that?
00:35:55:13 – 00:36:26:01
Daniel Andrews
Sure. Yeah, me too. I might throw my phone number out there. 8033616825. I believe phone numbers are very personal. You can text or call 803361682. But if you do texter call, tell me your name. Tell me about Bob Woods’s podcast. Right? So I’ll remember where it came from right And then you know would love to talk and then my website for people that are worried about timezone differentials I’m on the East Coast and I do stop answering the phone.
00:36:26:01 – 00:36:42:26
Daniel Andrews
At certain point. You can go to my website on my website and find my LinkedIn profile on there. You can find it if you dig out enough to get to my calendar for 15 minutes, That’ll make it easy to find now because I want to talk to you guys, but seriously, text me. I’m not going to sell you anything over the phone, right?
00:36:42:27 – 00:37:05:26
Daniel Andrews
Yeah. High pressure. You’re buying something over a phone, garbage thing out, right? I don’t know how to pressure people. I don’t do that. I’ll talk to you about what I do. We’ll see if my philosophy resonates with yours. If it does. Well, schedule a time to talk. Low stakes, no cost if it’s going to be some serious value. I do have various price points for your time with me, but the website is Daniel Patrick Andrews dot com.
00:37:05:28 – 00:37:47:26
Daniel Andrews
You’re not searching for Daniel Patrick Andrews. You can find me. There’s a very infamous individual apologist in Australia who dominates the search results. You don’t google Daniel Patrick Andrews dot com go to Daniel Patrick Andrews dot com.
00:37:05:28 – 00:37:47:26
Bob Woods
Yeah and both of those site addresses and the phone number will be in show notes so, just in case you missed that just just pop on over to the show notes and they’ll be right there too.
00:37:05:28 – 00:37:47:26
Daniel Andrews
3616825 for those who didn’t get their gun out until just now. I shouldn’t say the operator’s name, but wait, there’s more.
00:37:05:28 – 00:37:47:26
Bob Woods
free shipping and handling.
00:37:47:28 – 00:38:15:09
Bob Woods
Two for one. Daniel f R is the smiles cheap business instigator and partnering guru. Thank you so much for joining us today on Making Sales Social.
00:37:47:28 – 00:38:15:09
Daniel Andrews
This has been a blast. Thank you, man.
00:37:47:28 – 00:38:15:09
Bob Woods
I’m so happy to hear that. And thank you for bringing this episode of Making Sales Social. So remember when you’re out and about this week and any week, be sure to make your sales social.
00:38:15:09 – 00:38:15:29
Daniel Andrews
awesome.
00:38:16:02 – 00:38:16:19
Daniel Andrews Thanks.
00:38:16:19 – 00:38:45:06
Bob Woods
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Outro:
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