Episode 429: The Power of Strategic Storytelling in Sales & Marketing

Intro

0:00:18 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests teach their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Enjoy the show.

00:00:48:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I’m your host, Brynne Tillman, and I am so excited to introduce you to our guests today, Leslie Capps Leslie, known as The Strategic Story Preneur, is an accomplished author, course creator, and speaker who specializes in helping entrepreneurs monetize their stories and build compelling brands that resonate with a wealth of diverse experiences from owning a ranch to guiding sea kayak tours in Alaska and even fixing windmills. Leslie’s unique journey fuels her insights into the often tumultuous world of marketing.

00:01:33:18 – (Brynne Tillman): As the founder of Wild Woman Marketing, she empowers business leaders to harness the power of storytelling, simplify their marketing strategies, and ultimately find joy in their marketing efforts. Today, we will dive into her innovative approaches and explore how entrepreneurs can elevate their marketing through strategic storytelling. Leslie, welcome to the show. 

00:02:00:19 – (Leslie Capps): Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s really a pleasure to be here with you and sharing with your audience. 

00:02:06:18 – (Brynne Tillman): We’re really excited. And I have to say, I understand the power of story in sales. We use stories all the time, but the way you do it is so strategic, and I’m really excited to dive into that kind of framework, right, that you use in your storytelling. But before we dive into your genius, we ask all of our guests the same first question, which is what does making sales social mean to you? 

00:02:36:19 – (Leslie Capps): Oh, I think it’s such a great question. It seems like when we go online we get all weirded out, right? Maybe there’s something in the waves of computers that Fritz out our brains, and then we think that we’re not human and that we don’t have to be social and get to know someone. So I talk about it in the sense of, you got to do a little flirting even before you ask me out for coffee, right? But definitely not putting a ring on it on the first interaction. So for me, you know, being social is having that space to let things happen, to find out what makes somebody tick and honestly find out if they could truly use your service.

00:03:17:13 – (Leslie Capps): How many times. I can have enough fingers, right? That somebody pitched you something. You’re like, I literally do not need that service. 

00:03:28:18 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. So yeah, yeah, it’s amazing to me how spammy these messages can be. But you said something interesting, right? And it’s really about having a conversation. One of the things we always say is treat the person on the other side of the message the same way you would if they were on the other side of the table, right? It’s a human being. You’d never walk up to them and say, Leslie, nice to meet you. We help entrepreneurs just like you wouldn’t do that in real life. But for some reason people think it’s okay to do it online. So I love your answer. 

00:04:05:13 – (Leslie Capps): Thank you. It is. Isn’t it true? Like, I’m always sort of dumbfounded by that, that somehow this thing creates a whole different interaction in our brain and allows us to do stuff.Like you said, nobody would walk up and just blab out. You need my service. 

00:04:24:07 – (Brynne Tillman): You’d have a nice conversation. So I love that it’s totally aligned with the way that I think. So I want to jump in, you know, you are known as the digital marketing matchmaker, and I think that is so cool. Talk to us a little bit about what that means and how, you know, you’re helping those entrepreneurs find those marketing strategies for each of their unique stories, right?

00:04:49:03 – (Leslie Capps): Again, you know, it’s such a crowded marketplace. And I think we got here’s the bottom line, really. I’m trying to save everybody the time, the thousands of dollars I spent on trying to figure out marketing right. And following people’s, oh, this is going to work for you. And if it doesn’t work, you’re not doing the work. How many of us have heard that? Well, well, we can just lay that to the side and say, no, that’s absolutely not true. There are things that are aligned with us or not aligned. There are platforms as well.

00:05:22:21 – (Leslie Capps): Like I tell people, if you hate Facebook, why are you spending time on it? It’s creating that friction that we just don’t need. And you’re also creating that intention, right? I hate Facebook, so why? Yeah. Laying aside all those things. Right. And trying to align not only your message, but then how are you going to share it with what makes you happy? So, you know, when I wrote a book not that long ago and I kind of was in the back of my mind, but ended up getting the opportunity to write one, but like, that’s my Zen rate. I thought, oh my gosh, why have I not been writing books? Because this makes me happy. Like trekking around my garage or talking into my phone.

00:06:06:14 – (Leslie Capps): Each chapter really made me happy. So then how do I incorporate that into some sort of marketing plan instead of, you know, if I don’t like podcasts, there’s other avenues. There’s so many avenues now. So really tapping into what lights you up and what excites you. 

00:06:27:07 – (Brynne Tillman): So I love that. So your matchmaking is not person to person. It’s a person’s product or solution.

00:06:34:07 – (Leslie Capps): Absolutely right. How can we get your message out about this product? Where do we find your people and then what’s the avenue that resonates with you? Right. 

00:06:46:07 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh, I love that. So, you know, one of the things that I think about when I talk with people is I don’t have a unique story. I don’t know what my, you know, and, you say, yeah, you do. Let’s find it right to talk about like, what does that look like? If I’m a client, I come to you and I’m like, Leslie, I don’t have a unique story. Right? Help me.

00:07:11:07 – (Leslie Capps): Yeah, exactly. It’s interesting. I think we all think that. And yet when we start talking, there’s something unique. There’s some reason why we’re doing what we’re doing. And a lot of times we don’t recognize that as unique. And then we hear other people’s stories. You know, I was homeless with my dogs in the car, and we’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t have the suffering story. And I, I say, that’s optional.

00:07:36:09 – (Leslie Capps): Everybody has a unique reason for why they’re doing what they’re doing. One gal I worked with liked it. And you’ll see why she stands out. She came to me, and she’s, well, I’m a brand photographer, but I feel like I’m so much more. But I don’t convey that in my messaging. So one, I’m super curious, has lots of questions. And so I asked if I was like, okay, if feels like there’s a story here that you’re not telling me, why are you doing photography?

00:08:05:20 – (Leslie Capps): And she said, well, when I was pregnant with my second son, my first son with three years old, my mom was dying of cancer. She said I knew I had to pick up a camera and create memories. And she said once I did, then that like, trips my trigger, right? To help people step into their own on a camera, an event, a picture and get out the word.

00:08:30:23 – (Leslie Capps): Like I said, oh my God, great story, right? And you don’t need to say anything more like I understand from that story. They care. You’re going to take my photographs, right? So yeah, maybe some of ours aren’t quite that dramatic, but I have not heard anybody yet that doesn’t have something unique that made them do what they’re doing right now.

00:08:56:08 – (Brynne Tillman): It’s like that. Simon Sinek, why write like getting to that. 

00:09:00:23 – (Leslie Capps): Absolutely. Exactly right. Getting to that. And I kind of like to think about it. You were over here and you came here. So they’re here. There. So you were over there. What got you here? And now where are you headed with that? Because that’s where we’re buying into. Right as, that’s what we’re looking for is that dream, that train that we can get on of somebody that wants to come along with us on that journey?

00:09:28:23 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, I think that’s great. So storytelling can be so many things, right? It’s your story. It’s the story of your clients. It’s the story. How do you help someone, like, find that inner story that is going to be effective in their business. Right.

00:09:49:03 – (Leslie Capps): Kind of like this gal has a lot of questions. But really there is a process, and we, like we argue in our heads, right? We’re like, oh, I need to tell everything. I gotta tell, like the whole from the beginning of birth, because that’s so important. So a lot of it is just getting people to that struggling point where you force them and say, hey, this is a framework.

00:10:11:13 – (Leslie Capps): You get two sentences per little piece of that framework. And I’ve had people in boot camp struggling. Oh no, no way, no way. I can’t get it down. And yet when you press them and encourage them too, it’s like eye opening, right? It’s like, oh my gosh, I can say so much more in so much less. And then that gives me all this content. So I think it’s just really getting us out of our own way and looking at it in a little different light. Ray going, saying, okay, look at it from this angle and just roll with it. Roll with, 

00:10:50:23 – (Brynne Tillman): oh, I think it was a president that said this, I’m going to have to Google it or ChatGPT it. But it was I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn’t have enough time.

00:11:01:13 – (Leslie Capps): Yes, the exact quote is very familiar, isn’t it? 

00:11:07:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. If you talk about how really kind of framing it and getting it tight matters so much. And I’m going to Google that. While you’re saying that’s right. 

00:11:20:13 – (Leslie Capps): Well, you know, we talked a little bit at the first update right before the podcast started. People’s attention spans, like our brains are full, we have full plates and other areas, not only just in the entrepreneurial world. So you have 30 to 60s and if you don’t capture someone’s attention, they’re off, right? They go into their happy place. Or if you. So I will give an example of this poor guy. He probably doesn’t know I use him so often, but he gave a presentation and his acronym was like a r r r. So r. And he even did that, you know, the little wink.

00:12:01:04 – (Leslie Capps): And then in the background on his zoom, he had a picture of a pirate with a parrot on his shoulder. No joke. I have no idea what he said because he thought it was really clever and cute, but he didn’t connect the dots for me. So my brain, the whole time, I was like, I don’t get it. What? I don’t know what I don’t understand; I don’t understand our brains, do that. I just happen to be very aware of mine doing that. So as soon as we start down the rabbit hole with a story or it doesn’t connect, I also say to people that I was sturdy. I’m like,

00:12:37:20 – (Leslie Capps): Okay, I don’t get it that you told me this and this is what you’re doing. How are they connected? And people will say, well, they’re not connected. I’m like, don’t tell them because I need them to connect. If you’re telling me there needs to be a very specific goal of why you’re telling me this story. 

00:12:51:19 – (Brynne Tillman): So I really love that. And I had a client once who had, a marketing social media person say, just share a quote today. You’ll get attention. But no one ever knew what she did. 

00:13:08:20 – (Leslie Capps): Exactly. 

00:13:09:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, she got lots of likes, but no business. Right. And then she’s known as the quote girl, not the financial planner. Okay. 

00:13:19:20 – (Leslie Capps): Right. And she could have, you know, she’d use she thought about a little more strategically, done a quote and said, this is why it matters in finances. Because that’s the other thing I think. Bridget. Yep, exactly. People think that the other person is going to be able to build that bridge and granted, they probably will. It probably isn’t going to be the bridge you want them to go down. So nobody is going to say if you build the bridge from, oh yeah, I need to tell me that, no, our brains are like, hey, I appreciate you connecting the dots because now I get it and I don’t have to spend extra brainpower.

00:13:59:23 – (Brynne Tillman): So that’s awesome. And apparently was Mark Twain who said, if I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter. And then Woodrow Wilson used the line. So maybe I heard it from the president. I don’t. 

00:14:12:20 – (Leslie Capps): There you go. 

00:14:13:23 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. So yeah. So I think that’s great. If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter because it isn’t like you can go on and on and on, but bringing it in and you really help people like, hone it down and bring it in so that it is rising, dating right away. And they’re leaning in and listening. And I think that that’s brilliant. So I absolutely love that. You know, it’s not just marketing strategies for you. Like, you do business coaching kind of aligned with the marketing strategies. And tell me a little bit why that’s important and why clients can’t just hire a marketer and say, okay, good to go. Why do you need that balance?

00:14:58:20 – (Leslie Capps):  Absolutely. I think for me, marketing is really the foundation rate, and that’s why I approach it that way. If you don’t have some great or good or even adequate marketing rate, nobody’s coming in the door and nothing else matters. So it really is so essential to your business. And everybody’s like, I’m not a marketer. I’m not a salesperson.

00:15:23:13 – (Leslie Capps): We really are getting over that. So bringing in that business coaching I also like to talk about mindset, not only in that aspect but straight up in the marketing aspect, right? I do a storytelling bootcamp. One whole session is mindset. And how do we get beyond this? I’m not a marketer. How do we address being vulnerable? Because guaranteed

00:15:52:06 – (Leslie Capps): when you start to put yourself out there, somebody is going to look sideways. They’re going to take issue, even if it is totally non-controversial. I wrote a book about storytelling. I picked up Hubert the Hater. And at first I was like, oh, this is going to be fun, right? We can do some barbs back and forth. But then he started commenting on people who were supporting me on their posts. I was like, nope, okay, we’re out just blocking. But it also made me realize that marketing can make us really feel vulnerable. It is putting ourselves out there. There are people that might take issue, and we have that option to shrink back or step up.

00:16:36:11 – (Leslie Capps): And I just want everybody to recognize that. So if it does happen, you know, I’m going to make the decision to step up and go on. What I’m doing is valid. What I’m doing is important. And my story does matter. 

00:16:50:23 – (Brynne Tillman): And I love that. You know, one of the things I talk about and I have a blog written on this is, you have a personal brand, whether you like it or not. Do you like it? Read you because you’ve got one.

00:17:03:03 – (Leslie Capps): Absolutely right. 

00:17:05:23 – (Brynne Tillman): The one you want, 

00:17:07:03 – (Leslie Capps): Right? And if it’s not, then like you got like you got a big Ole salad bar, choose what you want, right? Create your own Sasha Fierce.

00:17:15:00 – (Brynne Tillman): So I’ll tell you an interesting exercise that I have a lot of my clients do is if they’re using AI, well, just call it ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT everything it knows about you, right?

00:17:29:10 – (Leslie Capps): Right. 

00:17:30:00 – (Brynne Tillman): What? What? That’s your brand,

00:17:32:00 – (Leslie Capps): right? Right. And I love that because I think if you probably know this, the more you work with chat these days, I’m like, I think she knows me better than myself, right? 

00:17:43:00 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. But what happens is sometimes it says things that you don’t want your brand to be too right. 

00:17:50:00 – (Leslie Capps): That’s true, that’s true.

00:17:51:06 – (Brynne Tillman): Right. So it’s just good to kind of take an audit. 

00:17:55:00 – (Leslie Capps): Yes, yes. I love that idea. 

00:17:58:06 – (Brynne Tillman): So, so much fun. And you know, I’ve got so many questions that are kind of like seeping out, but I only have time for a couple more. I do want to ask you kind of what are the key elements or framework or just kind of listed to a really good story, like we know the beginning, the middle of the end kind of thing.

00:18:23:12 – (Leslie Capps): Absolutely and that really is it for me. Beginning, middle and lesson. Right. So there’s the theme that is going to tie it all together. But yeah, I’ll apologize in advance. But the hero’s journey I want to start my eye out with a fork whenever somebody starts down that right. It’s very convoluted. It’s complicated, multiple steps. It just really needs to be simple.

00:18:50:02 – (Leslie Capps): And then once you get that framework down, we’ll start shifting things around. You don’t need to start at the beginning. And you could have the same story and four different lessons. You could have four different middles. So it’s just creating a framework. So then we can get creative. And then the fifth step, which is sort of an optional, is a call to action only because it freaks people out.

00:19:14:07 – (Leslie Capps): And so I always say you should always have a goal. Right. And that can be your call to action. And the goal should, if nothing else, be how do I open the door? So this person is going to take the next step with me, whether that’s a lead magnet, a call like whatever it is, that’s your goal and it’s not a sale that’s way down the line.

00:19:37:16 – (Brynne Tillman): I yeah, that’s that’s right I think. So. Give me a ring on the first date. That’s where you jump right. 

00:19:43:07 – (Leslie Capps): Yeah, exactly. And I think when you say call to action, people are like, oh my God, I got to like give an offer out right away, right? No. So yeah.

00:19:52:18 – (Brynne Tillman): So it’s yeah I’m a big fan of if you like this, you’ll love this. Right. You got this for free. You can buy this with your email. 

00:20:00:07 – (Leslie Capps): Yeah. Right. 

00:20:02:18 – (Brynne Tillman): And that’s them. It’s like a little,it’s like inching in.

00:20:06:21 – (Leslie Capps): Right. Exactly. It’s just like one next step, right? I provide value. Value value here. Something. Okay. Would you like the next thing? 

00:20:16:18 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, I love that. And then you have their email and you can drip on them in a good way. Not a little bit in the bucket. Yeah. And you know it’s one of my favorite lines. I have all these lines in my head. Michael Port, who wrote a book, got a good jillion years ago. That was called Book Yourself Solid. And this is like almost before the internet. Like maybe not that long, but like way before.

00:20:48:06 – (Brynne Tillman): The one phrase that stuck with me forever is give away so much value that you’re afraid you gave too much and then give more. And often that value comes in a story. They didn’t say that. That’s what I’m adding. So often that value comes in a story, because I could lecture you all day long and teach you stuff, and then you’re going to get off and you’re like, oh, well, either she’s really smart or that’s too complicated for me. Like you’re saying, simplify, simplify, right.

00:21:19:21 – (Brynne Tillman): But that story I can relate to and I will remember that story made me feel, you know, so I love that you’re doing it. So we are getting close on time. My second to last question, what question should I have asked you that I didn’t? 

00:21:39:09 – (Leslie Capps): Oh. Because we covered pretty much everything that like we did, we did a very good swath through it, didn’t we?

00:21:47:21 – (Brynne Tillman): Nice. 

00:21:49:09 – (Leslie Capps): Yeah. I don’t think that I can think of any question that you should have asked. All right, well, burning that would light up the prairie. 

00:21:59:00 – (Brynne Tillman): Okay, so then I will ask if our listeners are gone. Oh, my gosh, this Leslie, she rocks. I want to talk with her, connect with her, and download something. What’s the next step? What is the call to action?

00:22:12:21 – (Leslie Capps): Let’s have. Sorry. Yeah. That’s right. Well, I will tell you. So here’s my book. It is available on Amazon. Turn your business in this story. Gold. You can also get the first two chapters at story into Goal.com. And then I’ll get a drip on your rate. But otherwise you can find me at Leslie at Wild Woman marketing.com, wildwomanmarketing.com. All the usual social channels, right? Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. I think that pretty much covers it 

00:22:43:00 – (Brynne Tillman): I love it. I had so much fun with you today. Thank you so much for your insights. I really appreciate it. And to all of our listeners, when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro:

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