Episode 466: Solving the Alignment Gap: Social Selling, Collaboration, and AI in Modern Sales
In this episode of the Making Sales Social Podcast, host Stan Robinson Jr., Chief Coaching Officer at Social Sales Link, sits down with Bill Dwoinen, Chief Revenue Officer at Mural, to unpack a modern, human-centered approach to social selling, leadership, and revenue growth.
With over 20 years of experience leading high-performance go-to-market teams at companies like Salesforce, Slack, and LinkedIn, Bill shares why social selling starts with an intentional personal brand, how leaders can create mutually beneficial relationships with their networks, and why “showing up only when you need something” is the fastest way to lose trust.
The conversation also dives deep into Mural’s research on the alignment gap, why sales, marketing, product, and customer success teams so often work in silos, how misalignment drives burnout and poor customer experiences, and what collaborative, visual selling can do to fix it. Bill explains how visual collaboration creates clarity, accelerates deal cycles, and helps teams move together toward shared outcomes.
View Transcript
Bill Dwoinen | 00:00
When you net it out, it really comes down to bringing a more individualistic approach to how you think about sales. One of the biggest callouts is that you have to think about it in two different ways: social selling and social media marketing. Many people don’t know how to separate the two.
Intro | 00:19
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 00:45
Welcome back to the Making Sales Social podcast. I’m Stan Robinson Jr., Chief Coaching Officer here at Social Sales Link, and I’m delighted to have our guest today, Bill Dwoinen, Chief Revenue Officer at Mural.
By way of introduction, Mural is the leading visual work platform that helps teams collaborate, innovate, and solve problems together. Bill brings over 20 years of experience building high-performance revenue and go-to-market teams at companies like Slack and Salesforce. He now leads global sales, professional services, revenue strategy, customer success, and revenue operations at Mural.
At Mural, his mission is to scale how organizations ideate, align, and generate impact by fusing visual collaboration with revenue-driven alignment across teams. Bill, welcome to the podcast.
Bill Dwoinen | 01:57
Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. It’s a great way to end the week and spend some time on a Friday.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 02:05
Our pleasure. We always start by asking this question: What does social selling mean to you?
Bill Dwoinen | 02:15
It’s a powerful question and could easily be a five-hour answer. For me, when you net it out, social selling is about taking a more individualistic approach to how you think about sales.
One of the biggest distinctions is understanding the difference between social selling and social media marketing. Social media marketing is typically driven by the marketing team—posting on LinkedIn, Twitter, and other platforms, executing campaigns, and managing brand presence.
Social selling, on the other hand, is how an individual shows up in an always-on world. It’s how you present yourself in the social sphere. You have to think about your personal brand. What do you want people to know you for? Do they see you as a thought leader?
For me, this really clicked during my time at LinkedIn. It was the first time I seriously asked myself what my social brand should be. Over the last six years, my content has ranged from leadership insights, to why sports matter and bring people together, to my personal journey with marathon running. I’ve run five of the last six marathons, and there are so many life lessons in that experience.
In between all of that, I might sprinkle in posts like, “We’re hiring,” or “Join our event.” What I try to avoid is being the person who only shows up when they need something. We all know those people—the ones who suddenly reappear asking for tickets or favors after years of silence.
Social selling is about not being that person. It’s about building your brand intentionally and showing up consistently.
The second piece is being a multifaceted person who adds value to their network. Too often, social selling becomes a one-way street. People want something from their network but don’t contribute back.
LinkedIn is an incredible tool, but sometimes it turns into a highlight reel where everyone is hitting quota and closing million-dollar deals. That’s not reality. Social selling should be about creating mutually beneficial relationships where your network learns from you and supports you—and where you support them as well.
For example, when I recently posted that we were hiring for several roles, the response was incredible. A few weeks earlier, I shared a post about an AI Day we hosted at Mural, including an internal AI talent show. I had dozens of people reach out wanting to learn more. That’s the power of nurturing your network.
When you’re consistent and add value, your network will be there when you need them—whether that’s for hiring, events, or awareness. It’s not about a single moment. It’s about long-term relationships.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 06:31
That was amazing. You covered so much, and I’m looking forward to listening back myself. What you described aligns perfectly with what we teach at Social Sales Link—positioning your LinkedIn profile as a resource, focusing on one-to-one engagement, and providing value before asking for anything.
Bill Dwoinen | 07:24
I’m very passionate about this. When you see social selling done well, it stands out. And when it’s done poorly—copy-and-paste messages, recycled content—you notice that too.
I’d rather post something original and get zero likes than share someone else’s article and get a hundred. Originality matters. It’s not easy, and it takes intentional effort. Social selling is an investment—not just for sales, but for your personal brand and career progression. Don’t be the person who only shows up when they need something.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 08:39
Exactly. One way to offer value is through thoughtful content that helps your audience—especially your ICP—do their jobs better. Shifting gears slightly, one of the things that caught my attention was Mural’s research on the Alignment Gap between sales, marketing, and other departments. Could you expand on that?
Bill Dwoinen | 09:47
Absolutely. I’m really proud of the research our team has done. It goes back to how you engage your network. You can talk about product features, or you can share insights that educate and inform.
The Alignment Gap isn’t a new problem. I’ve been in sales for over 20 years, and teams working in silos has always been a challenge—even when everyone was sitting next to each other in an office.
What’s changed is the impact. Companies are now focused on employee experience, burnout, and efficiency. Burnout happens when work feels redundant or stalled. Misalignment leads to wasted effort, poor customer experience, and churn.
Account transitions happen. Customers aren’t upset about promotions or turnover—they’re frustrated when they have to re-explain themselves because information lives in too many places.
At Salesforce, I worked on deals with 30 people across 12 teams using 17 different tools. That lack of alignment creates friction. Our research shows misalignment impacts revenue, customer experience, and employee burnout.
At Mural, we approach this through collaborative selling. We act as the visual layer across the sales process. Our own teams use it, and we’ve seen less fatigue, faster alignment, and better deal execution. Leadership can jump in and quickly understand what’s happening.
Alignment isn’t about adding another tool. It’s about solving the root problem. When teams are aligned, moving in the same direction, and collaborating effectively, everything improves—from revenue to retention to employee satisfaction.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 14:41
One thing that stood out to me is how visual collaboration differs from traditional tools like spreadsheets and CRMs. Can you explain how that works?
Bill Dwoinen | 15:08
Great question. Mural’s foundation comes from R&D teams using it for user journeys, ideation, and synthesis. What we found was that sales teams were already using it to add visual structure to close plans, discovery, and org charts.
Seeing information visually while collaborating in real time is powerful. A close plan living in a mural allows anyone to jump in, ask questions, and take action immediately.
In deal reviews, what looks like a PowerPoint at first becomes dynamic. People add questions, action items, and links. We get five times more done in 30 minutes because everything is visible and actionable.
Instead of sending follow-up emails or Slack messages, action items live right there. Everyone may have different responsibilities, but we’re all working toward the same outcome.
What’s exciting is where we’re going—interactive org charts, lifecycle visibility, and collaboration that spans from discovery through renewals. It’s about removing bottlenecks across the entire customer lifecycle and keeping teams aligned every step of the way.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 19:40
That is amazing. It sounds like you almost have feedback loops built into this mutual collaboration as you go.
Bill Dwoinen | 19:52
Yeah, it is. I think teams know how to work and where to work, and the real-time collaboration is great. A good example is big deal review calls, which every company does. I remember being a rep and thinking the worst part was that all the recaps and next steps never happened.
I’ve been part of organizations where there was harmonization and account planning. You start the year off, spend hours together, and then nothing happens. You invest all that time up front, but the plans aren’t really used.
What we’re seeing with our teams now is more cohesiveness. We do the account plan, Q1 starts, everyone’s excited for the new year, and it becomes something we live in every single day and every single month. It’s not this big Super Bowl moment where everyone does their account plans and then forgets about them until next year.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 20:47
Good deal. All right, two last quick questions to wrap up. Is there one tip you would give today’s sales leaders, particularly with the advent of AI?
Bill Dwoinen | 21:06
I think I’ll actually give two tips. I never answer the question directly, Stan—I always try to do even better.
I had the privilege of getting my leadership team together in Chicago a few months back. Summer in Chicago—nothing better. We had great dialogue about how this is really a leadership moment, where leaders need to truly lead.
That may sound cliché, but a big part of leadership is direction, clarity, consistency, and coaching. Many leaders are good at giving feedback, but they forget about support and coaching. Feedback should come with help.
Activating true leadership moments is critical. There will always be management tasks—forecast notes, meetings, and metrics—but great leaders focus on strategy, tactics, pull-through, feedback, and support. Anyone can say, “We need more pipeline” or “We need more meetings,” but leadership doesn’t work that way anymore.
People need clarity and support now more than ever, especially in remote environments. Being clear, fair, and consistent matters. Don’t give feedback without coaching. Don’t state obvious goals without offering guidance on how to achieve them. That’s where sales, marketing, and enablement come together.
The second tip is finding the balance between embracing AI and being intentional with it. Use AI responsibly, with clear guidelines. Over the last few months, we’ve focused on defining what we’re using, why we’re using it, and the outcomes we expect.
I’ve lived through two major shifts: the mobile explosion, which happened gradually over 15 years, and now AI, which has accelerated everything dramatically. AI forces faster decisions. Over the past 18 months, many organizations tried to do everything at once, which confused employees.
So here are my AI leadership tips:
First, identify what AI can augment and complement.
Second, involve the people who will actually use the tools—don’t make decisions in silos.
Third, be specific when rolling tools out: what we’re doing, why we’re doing it, how we’re doing it, and the outcomes we want.
It doesn’t need to be fireworks. Sometimes it’s as simple as providing a few strong prompts for account discovery or revenue conversations. That intentionality makes all the difference.
This is a moment in time for leaders to truly lead—with thoughtfulness, direction, and inclusion.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 25:30
Beautiful. This has been awesome, Bill. For our listeners who want to learn more about you and Mural, where should they go?
Bill Dwoinen | 25:40
You can find me on LinkedIn—Bill Dwoinen. There are two of us on LinkedIn, including my dad. You can also visit mural.co for the latest updates. There’s great research there and more exciting things coming. Thank you very much for having me.
Stan Robinson Jr. | 25:56
Thank you. This has been amazing. I really appreciate it.
Outro | 26:01
Thanks for watching. Join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies to set you apart. Subscribe to get the latest episodes of the Making Sales Social podcast. Give this video a thumbs up and leave a comment with what you’d like to hear next. You can also listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and other platforms. Visit our website, socialsaleslink.com, for more information.