Episode 478: The First Meeting Differentiator: Turning Discovery into Meaningful Consultations with Lee Salz

Lee Salz 00:00
Think about how most salespeople prepare for discovery meetings. What do they do? Brynne, well, let me make a list of the questions I’m going to ask and the message points I’m going to share. Nothing wrong with that. And if you think that’s a great plan, let me ask you this: what’s the person on the other side of the desk get out of that interaction?

Intro 00:19
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, Stan Robinson Jr., and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching and using, so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling brain. Welcome to the show.

Brynne Tillman 00:45
Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I’m so excited about my guest today, Lee Salz, a globally recognized sales differentiating strategist and bestselling author of The First Meeting Differentiator: Transforming Sales-Focused Discovery into Client-Centric Consultations. Lee is known as a sales contrarian who challenges old-school, ineffective selling methods and helps sales professionals stand out by changing not just what they sell, but how they sell. He’s the creator of the Sales Differentiation Strategy, a keynote speaker, consultant, and coach who’s helped companies worldwide win more deals at the prices they want. That’s a big deal. Named Speaker of the Year by the Institute for Sales Excellence and ranked number six global sales thought leader, Lee brings a refreshing and practical perspective on how to turn a first meeting into a meaningful, trust-building consultation. Lee, welcome to the program.

Lee Salz 02:12
Thank you, Brynne. I am so excited to be here. Our books launched at the same time, and we had four images of the two books together, then individually, and I loved that. Really wonderful.

Brynne Tillman 02:12
Love it. Absolutely fantastic. They dovetail so nicely, right? You’re teaching how to get the meeting, and I’m saying, “Great, you got the meeting, here’s what to do with it.”

Lee Salz 02:21
Exactly.

Brynne Tillman 02:21
It’s the perfect one-two punch for sure. It’s like a Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup—chocolate and peanut butter, perfect together. Before we jump into your genius—and boy, do you have a lot of genius to jump into—we ask all of our guests the same first question: what does Making Sales Social mean to you?

Lee Salz 02:46
Great way to start. I’ll tell you what makes it anti-social: people who go on social media, particularly LinkedIn, and say, “Buy my stuff.” That’s anti-social selling. What I look at with LinkedIn is providing meaningful value to your target audience. They’re attracted to you and want to seek your guidance. That’s what I look at.

Brynne Tillman 03:12
I love that. Attraction is so important, and it’s a differentiator. Assuming that you’re attracting for something meaningful, trust building comes into play. I say trust-based all the time, and we are so aligned, it’s uncanny. But I want to jump into something I read in your book: you said that traditional discovery meetings have to die. That’s serious. What’s broken about that approach, and why do most first meetings fail?

Lee Salz 04:01
Great question. Think about how most salespeople prepare for discovery meetings. What do they do? Brynne, they make a list of questions and message points to share. Nothing wrong with that plan, but let me ask you this: what does the person on the other side of the desk get out of that interaction? You might think they’ll learn about your company or what you offer—that’s a big fail.

There are two types of sales, and I’ll explain them using a bathroom metaphor. You buy toilet paper. I sell toilet paper. You’re buying my competitor’s toilet paper, and I’m saying you should buy mine because it’s superior. That’s a “takeaway sale,” and most salespeople are in that environment.

The other type is an alternative sale: you buy toilet paper, I sell it, but I’m offering a different way of addressing the issue. Most people are in the takeaway environment, which means they already have a provider. It is not meaningful value for them to learn about your company and products. They have 400 things to do, and you’re saying, “Meet with me to learn about my stuff.” That’s just not going to happen.

Discovery is an egocentric sales step. Compare this to the medical profession: you go to the doctor to become wiser about your circumstances and understand potential remedies. You wouldn’t go to a doctor just for the doctor to gather data with no return. That’s what discovery is—it’s all for us. They get nothing out of it.

The medical community calls this a consultation. I’ve embraced that term for the first meeting, because it recognizes that the person you’re meeting with must also receive meaningful value.

Brynne Tillman 06:17
I love that. It ties into my whole campaign around the narcissistic salesperson and the journey to recovery.

Lee Salz 06:26
Exactly. Discovery is a narcissistic sales step.

Brynne Tillman 06:32
It’s interesting. I see narcissism all the way through, and some of it comes from the pressure leadership puts on KPIs that don’t matter. People focus on commissions or numbers instead of solutions or meaningful outcomes. I love that point.

The title of your book, The First Meeting Differentiator, says so much. But how do you become the “bidet”?

Lee Salz 07:15
I’ve done hundreds of podcast interviews. Most salespeople operate in the takeaway environment, trying to displace an incumbent. Some of us have the luxury of being in the alternative environment, but most do not. You can’t change that—you have to change your approach.

Meaningful value is key. If you want someone to take a meeting with you, they want to come away wiser. Learn something that helps them in their role, their company, or both. I put together a tip sheet at meaningfulvalue.com. You’ll find 10 ways to provide meaningful value during first meetings. Once you define that value, fold it into your prospecting messaging. For example: “Brynne, I’ll share a best practice IT executives are using to creatively reduce costs.” If I meet with Lee, I learn something that helps me in my role.

Brynne Tillman 08:46
I love that. It’s about the ask-offer ratio—you’re asking them to invest time in exchange for your offer.

Lee Salz 09:00
Exactly. You didn’t say “spend time,” you said “invest time.” That’s exactly what we’re asking.

Brynne Tillman 09:07
At the end, was it worth the investment? If yes, you get a second meeting.

Lee Salz 09:25
The overarching objective of a first meeting is to pique enough interest that they want to keep interacting with you. You don’t need to ask every question or tell them everything about your offering. Share the right information and ask the right questions.

In Chapter 2 of my book, I teach how to reverse-engineer the first meeting. Most salespeople plan: “Here’s my list of questions, here’s my message points.” There’s an infinite number of questions you could ask, but only so many someone will tolerate. You can talk about your company for 16 hours, but no one will sit through that.

In a consultation, define success. Ask yourself: Was it a great first meeting if I accomplished what? What information do I need? The chapter has a downloadable worksheet to guide you. Identify the outcomes, then ask only the questions tied to them and share only the relevant information. Another first meeting becomes almost like a project plan.

Brynne Tillman 11:00
That’s fantastic. It’s a collaboration, not an interrogation. You also talk about moving from interrogation to consulting. That’s the first piece: when you schedule the meeting, ask what the other person hopes to accomplish. But salespeople often go into their own agenda instead.

Lee Salz 11:46
True. That question is introspective for the salesperson. In preparing the first meeting, they define outcomes: “Was it a great first meeting if I accomplished what?”

Brynne Tillman 12:05
Go deeper into that—it’s really meaningful.

Lee Salz 12:10
Preparing for the meeting means defining success. Identify potential outcomes. Use the chapter worksheet to check the boxes that meet your definition. Then figure out how to achieve each one: questions to ask, information to share verbally and visually, actions before, during, and after. Brilliant.

Brynne Tillman 12:56
That is amazing. Planning a map to reach your goal in a way that’s meaningful to your prospect—that’s a mic-drop moment.

Lee Salz 13:23
Now, Brynne, you wrote a fantastic book on how to get a meeting.

Brynne Tillman 13:30
Thank you.

Lee Salz 13:32
Okay, so now I got the meeting.

Brynne Tillman 13:35
By the way, it’s about getting a meeting in a trust-based way, without pitching. Not being salesy, being meaningful. Chocolate to the peanut butter.

Lee Salz 13:48
Exactly. We get the meeting, and with a discovery mindset, most people screw it up in the first few seconds. For example: “Brynne, what I want to do today is ask you some questions about your business, and then I’ll share information about what we offer.”

Brynne Tillman 14:20
Narcissism at its best.

Lee Salz 14:23
Exactly. It’s all about us. Now, if we view this as a consultation, we ask: “Brynne, for this to be a great use of your time, what do you want to make sure we talk about today?” That question does two things: it tells you what’s most important to them and shows you genuinely care about the value they get from their time.

Brynne Tillman 15:10
Before I ask the next question, this is spinning my wheels in real time. There are three paths: they give an answer I didn’t expect and I have to pivot, they give an expected answer and I’m on the right path, or they have no idea why they’re there—they just took the call.

Lee Salz 15:46
That’s amazing to me. When you think of how busy everyone is, the fact that they took a meeting and have no idea why they took that meeting—it’s incredible.

Brynne Tillman 15:55
That comes up for me because so much of what we teach is warm referrals. I’ll get on a call with Jeffrey Gitomer, and Jeffrey took the call because Lee said, “You have to talk to Brynne.” Many of our calls start with a very warm, credible introduction, but they’re not exactly sure why they’re there—except that someone they trust said, “You have to have this conversation.” That’s the third leg of my stool.

Lee Salz 16:31
Then I would start the meeting a little differently. I’d ask a different question: “I appreciate Jeffrey introducing us. Just curious, why do you think Jeffrey thought we should have a conversation?” Perfect, right? Maybe they share some wisdom. If they have no idea why Jeffrey introduced you, make a joke out of it. Then say, “Would it be helpful if I give you a little sound bite about what I do?” That gives context and starts the conversation. Hopefully, that gets the wheels turning—they go, “Okay, now I know why Jeffrey connected us.”

Brynne Tillman 17:25
You should write a book on this.

Lee Salz 17:27
I was thinking about it. I just decided to write this one instead.

Brynne Tillman 17:32
I love The First Meeting Differentiator. Magic. You have a framework, which is really important. Salespeople need process and framework. You talk about meaningful value as a huge role in that. Can you expand on that?

Lee Salz 17:56
Meaningful value is key. I mentioned how to get the meeting, but you have to deliver on it. They want to learn something that helps them in their role, helps their company, or, best of all, helps both. This could be a best practice in their industry, a way to differentiate themselves from the competition, a method to reduce costs, something competitors are missing, or a new regulation that could affect them. They learn something worth investing time to meet with you.

Go to meaningfulvalue.com to download the tip sheet.

Brynne Tillman 18:42
It’s powerful.

Lee Salz 18:46
At the end of the meeting, there’s a test. Assume the meeting went well: I’d ask, “Brynne, how did we do today?” That’s a meaningful value test. What I want to hear is, “I’m so glad we got together. This has been helpful. You challenged me to think differently about this process.” Music to my ears. That means we delivered on the promise of meaningful value.

Brynne Tillman 19:19
Absolutely. This bridges to top-of-funnel work. Content and messaging need to resonate with the buyer, create curiosity by mentioning challenges, teach something new, and create a compelling moment. They personalize the challenge and make a connection. You mentioned consultation cliffhangers—leave them wanting more. How does that create momentum?

Lee Salz 20:23
Many salespeople treat the first meeting as a discovery: they ask every question, bring all samples, demos, executives, etc. Then, after showing everything, why would they want to continue?

Are you familiar with Herman Ebbinghaus?

Brynne Tillman 21:02
Yes, but not the details.

Lee Salz 21:05
Ebbinghaus studied memory and retention in the late 1800s. People forget 50% of what they learned within 24 hours and less than 10% a week later. One-hour first meeting? They remember about six minutes a week later. Unless you expect an order immediately, you must pace the process. First meeting is to peak interest—they want to keep interacting with you. Demo is not meeting one. Your slide deck is not meeting one. Executives are not meeting one. Those are consultation cliffhangers. The goal: leave them wanting more, inspired to continue the conversation. I pulled the term “cliffhanger” from TV and movies.

Brynne Tillman 22:38
Dead or not dead?

Lee Salz 22:40
JR, right? Who shot JR? That’s the famous Dallas cliffhanger. It inspired water cooler talk all summer and got people to tune in for the next season. That’s the mindset: inspire interest so they want to keep interacting instead of forcing it.

Brynne Tillman 23:39
The idea that they want to come back is huge. Most salespeople get stuck on the first call, the second hardest is the second call. Get the first call right.

Lee Salz 24:07
The first meeting is the deal foundation. If it’s weak, the deal is weak. Price issues arise because the first meeting wasn’t done well. Information sharing, differentiation, engaging emotions, meaningful value—it all needs to be right. A weak first meeting is like a house with a weak foundation—it will tumble. You feel it when you put the proposal in front of them: “Your price is too high. You’re the same as the competitor.” First meeting matters.

Brynne Tillman 24:52
Lee, you just filled every ounce of my business. Brilliant. I started the book but now I’m really excited to finish it. What question should I have asked that I didn’t?

Lee Salz 25:15
My favorite topic is in Chapter Five: empathetic expertise. Salespeople hear, “People buy based on emotion, justify with logic” a gazillion times. But few put it into practice. In 101 sales meetings, 99% are logic-based. We don’t teach salespeople how to appropriately engage emotions. Chapter Five is dedicated to that.

Brynne Tillman 26:26
Every salesperson and sales leader needs this book. Leadership is key—if you’re not coaching the right things, the team won’t do the right things. Every sales leader should have this. Brilliant.

Lee Salz 26:51
Thank you, Brynne.

Brynne Tillman 26:56
How can people get in touch with you? How do they buy the book?

Lee Salz 27:02
Go to firstmeetingbook.com. You can download the first chapter and buy the book anywhere. There’s a bonus: three private masterclasses based on the book content exclusively for book purchasers. The first masterclass is in mid-December.

Brynne Tillman 27:39
Go buy the book and sign up for the masterclass. Thank you, Lee—so many mic-drop moments and alignment in how we teach: take your ego out of the sale, focus on them, and solve their problem. Any last words?

Lee Salz 28:14
Make it about them, and you’ll never be wrong.

Brynne Tillman 28:18
Love it. To all listeners: when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro 28:26
Thanks for watching. Join us again for more guests with marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies. Subscribe to get the latest episodes of Making Sales Social. Give this video a thumbs up and comment what you want to hear from us. Listen on  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and other platforms. Visit our website, socialsaleslink.com, for more information.