Episode 127: Casey Jacox – Win the Relationship, Not the Deal
Sales and Executive Leadership Coach Casey Jacox joins the LinkedIn Whisperer Brynne Tillman to talk about how important it is to build authentic relationships and not focus so much on winning the deal, in order to truly grow your business.
Casey, the author behind the book, WIN the RELATIONSHIP, not the DEAL: Six Common Sense Strategies to Succeed in Life & Business, doesn’t believe in faking it until you make it. Tune in as he shares steps on how to win a relationship as well as what he learned from the mistakes he made early on in his career. Find out more about Casey and what he does at caseyjacox.com. Grab a copy of his book on Amazon or by checking it out on his website at caseyjacox.com/book.
Making Sales Social to me means being your authentic self, realizing that everybody else has already taken so focus on being you makes it so much easier to tell the truth when you’re being yourself and let it out because we all laugh, smile, cry, get nervous, get anxious, but the sooner that you just dive into that I think you’ll win and you’ll develop relationships a lot quicker.
Bob Woods 00:21
Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients, so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.
Brynne Tillman 00:46
Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I’m so excited about this episode. We’ve got Casey J. Cox Casey Jacox, the author of WIN the RELATIONSHIP, not the DEAL: Six Common Sense Strategies to Succeed in Life & Business. Casey’s no nonsense and personal approach to building authentic relationships, helps humans improve self awareness helps them ditch their ego and find simple ways to build lifelong relationships, that for salespeople can really help us grow our business. Casey, welcome to the show.
Casey Jacox 01:20
Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here. And I’m excited to have fun conversation with you.
Brynne Tillman 01:24
I’m excited! Do tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you get to the six common sense strategies?
Casey Jacox 01:30
Well, I spent over 20 years in corporate. I was a college athlete, I was #UncleRico for Napoleon Dynamite fans out there. I have to mention college football because I learned a lot about adversity, grit, resilience, goal setting through playing sports. I know that sports don’t always apply to every person. So I’ll be sensitive of different analogies to use but I was a corporate seller for 20 plus years, moved into executive leadership, and had this idea about 10 years ago, when this phrase hit me about, we have to win people.
I was mentoring folks, we have to win relationships. And even when you lose a deal, you can still win a person on how you respond. Are you staying neutral in your thoughts? are you… whatever you… however you go about doing that there’s still ways bringing up positivity to the person you’re working with. And it hit me like that’s the title of the book. But I did not want to write the book when I was still in corporate because I didn’t want to make it have that to be an outward excuse, and have myself not fully focused, because I wanted to be all in on my corporate job.
And then when the time came for me to part ways, which was a nice, nice divorce, I’m still great friends with all my former employees, executives, etc. And I spent four months on writing, and it’s everything I’ve ever thought it would be, except who I’m serving. And when I left corporate, Brynne, I also did not anticipate getting into coaching. I thought I might be a speaker because I do like speaking but I did not know that starting a podcast as well for fathers would bring all this together. And you know, fast forward. Two years later, someone said, “You realize you started a business in a global pandemic?” I’m like, that’s actually pretty cool. I know, I didn’t ever sit back to think about that but that’s really how it happened. And it’s so fun, just helping people slow down to go fast.
It’s fun to give people tools that you know, as the author, I’ve read this book eight or nine times through the editing process, when I narrated the audible, I still learned from myself, which tells me these are lifelong lessons that I’m not perfect at it,. I’m the author but it gives us a tool to get back to center on ways to kind of figure out, where are my gaps? What are the things I’m not doing that I need to get better at?
Brynne Tillman 03:37
Love that. So I’m gonna jump deeper into those six common sense strategies. But before I do we ask all of our guests to answer one question, which is what does making sales social mean to you?
Casey Jacox 03:50
making sales social to me means being your authentic self. Realizing that everybody else is already taken. So focus on being you, makes it so much easier to tell the truth when you’re being yourself. I would say as simple as that. Just be yourself and let it out because we all laugh, smile, cry, get nervous, get anxious, but the sooner that you just dive into that I think you’ll win and you’ll develop relationships a lot quicker.
Brynne Tillman 04:16
Yeah, you can’t have relationships that are inauthentic because they’ll blow up pretty soon. So I love, that just be yourself. So I thank you for that. Let’s dive in. So six common sense strategies to win the relationship, not the deal. So let’s start with number one. What’s the first strategy?
Casey Jacox 04:36
The power of the golden rule, treat people the way we want to be treated? When we’re three or four or five years old? Our parents taught, that some parents did, maybe our teachers did but yet we get in corporate America, we forget that advice. We think we’re bigger than everybody. We can be rude to our admin. We can flip someone off, we can come in with our negative energy to an environment, to a meeting. Maybe I got an argument with my spouse, my child, my wife, whoever it may be and I bring that negative energy into a meeting or my environment, that’s my fault. That’s not my team’s fault.
So I think it’s a good way to kind of realize, again, you know, when I was, when I played quarterback a long time ago, if I didn’t bring positivity into the huddle, well, I didn’t help the team. And so I think that same mindset when we come into an office, be someone that you know, is a fountain of energy, not a drain, not sucking it out, be someone that deposits into the bank, not with constant withdrawing.
Brynne Tillman 05:25
I love that. It’s interesting. You say, the golden rule, I’ve been hearing this Platinum Rule lately, which is, “Treat people the way they want to be treated. What do you think of that?”
Casey Jacox 05:33
I like it but again, make sure that you’re doing what’s also good for you in being human. If you’re doing something to be not you. You know, if it’s really worrying about someone else, and not worrying about like, you staying centered with yourself. And I would just, I would only have challenge for that is make sure you’re still being yourself.
Brynne Tillman 05:53
There. That’s a very good add to that. I love that. So you can treat them the way they want to be treated as long as it doesn’t contradict the way you want to treat people. I love that.
Casey Jacox 06:03
And I’ll also say one thing, the very first line, few first lines of the book when my son was seven years old, and he said, “Daddy, what do you do for your job?” And I could have easily, I could’ve told him well, “Budd, dad’s a you know, Senior Account Executive, President blah blah, of staff augmentation providing consulting resources that do UI UX Vov, blah, blah, blah…” he’d be like, What is my dad do?
So I simplified it and said, “You know what budd, when you’re older I’ll explain it to you but what dad does, he makes friends for a living.” and my buddies were like, “You can’t say that. He’s gonna go think… you can’t just get money because you have friends.” I said, why can I say that? It’s exactly what I do. When a friend needs help. I help them. If you as my friend needed help would I lie to you and steer you else? But no, I’d set your expectations. I’d be honest, I’d say “Hey, let’s find you. If I can’t be the one to help you, I’d find you a different friend.” And so that again, simplifying the mindset of what we do, is it for me or is it a super helpful way to, as I train people as I teach people now as I remind myself.
Brynne Tillman 07:08
I love that. I think that’s brilliant. So what’s number three?
Casey Jacox 07:12
Brynne Tillman 07:14
Ohh all of that was just in number one?
Casey Jacox 07:16
You’re so excited. I know.
Brynne Tillman 07:17
Casey Jacox 07:18
Expectation Manager. Set clear expectations. Too often relationships get eroded. Think about the last time you bought something. Someone said it was going to be here on time. They told you they’re going to send you something in the mail, meetings at 10 o’clock. We showed up at 10:18 “Oh, Brynne got stuck. She’s probably busy too.” Are you setting someone’s expectations? “Hey, I’m going to be late.” “Hey, here’s what’s going on.” I’m a big believer in over communicating. Get ahead of things that you know, someone might be thinking of, don’t assume my mom told me earlier you make an ass of you and me, joke as kids.
But I think, again, bringing focus and energy to expectation management. It sets clarity for relationships, it sets, you build trust a lot quicker by saying what you’re going to do and go do it. And I think our younger generation, I hate to be the old guy here but we’re so, we’re on text, we’re on Instagram, we’re doing all these messaging, but we don’t send as we can’t control the tone of those expectations on how we communicate them. And I believe that’s a miss.
And so like, you know, sarcasm on my kids want to have friends over they’ll say, “Hey, I’m gonna text him.” I said, sounds like you don’t want him to come over for a playdate? What do you mean? I said, pick up the phone and call them and make them call, right? Do something but just bring that kind of human element to it. But anyway, bringing it back to chapter two, it’s all about this clear setting expectations and I provide examples where I did not do a good job of that in my career. And there’s exercises throughout each chapter to that kind of help you.
Brynne Tillman 08:47
Oh, that’s fantastic. One of the things I liked that you said was that you believe in over communication. Over the weekend, actually, my best friend from sixth, seventh and eighth grade is from Brazil, and she was in states and she and her sister stayed over this weekend. And there was an interpretation around communication, right? Because you’re between Portuguese and English. And ultimately what she said and I think this leads right into what you said is when you don’t communicate enough, you’re sweeping it all under the rug and then you might trip and I thought that was great and that was like some translation from Portuguese but I thought that was awesome so I thought I’d share that.
Casey Jacox 09:31
You actually made me think of something too. One of the best trainings I’ve ever went through was my first job out of college, It was called the “Cigar Box Training.” So imagine my hand is a cigar box and these are five instead of these are cigars or fingers but this is emotions instead or experiences.
So let’s say that you do something that frustrates me. “I don’t want to deal with it because it’s, you know, or Brynne’s late.” All of a sudden my fingers or emotions are now getting tight, tight and strong. And now that cigar boxes is just trying to close it, not deal with these things or these frustrations or experiences. And then randomly you do something that’s so silly and so simple and I explode. It’s not your fault. That’s my fault because I did not set expectations or communicate clearly. Maybe you did something that frustrated me, but you didn’t even know it. Am I giving you the benefit of the doubt? Am I slowing down to go fast? And so that’s, you know, another example where…
Brynne Tillman 10:21
Yeah, that communication is critical. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. All right now are we on number three?
Casey Jacox 10:27
We are, yay. The difference between hearing and listening. I would say don’t just listen to your customers. Don’t just hear your customers, listen to them. Sounds simple yet when you’re talking my whole, yeah, looking at my smartwatch looking at my phone, texting while you’re talking. Or am I removing that, treating you like you’re the only person left in the world. Making you have that “Maya Angelou” moment, not what I said, what I said but how it made you feel when you leave? You’re like, “Man, he was different, he actually listened and he didn’t… believe me say about myself. No similar questions. Wow, that sounds [inaudible] And when we make it more about someone else, weird, they open up, weird. Now we have commonality which leads to rapport which leads to trust, which leads to a relationship and that is not everybody. But it takes listening, right. And listening is such a gift. And something you can practice believe it or not.
Brynne Tillman 11:20
Yeah, I love that. Jeffrey Gitomer says, are you listening to respond or are you listening to understand and you know, something like that? So obviously listen to understand not listen to response. So I love that, that’s awesome. Go ahead, you wanna?
Casey Jacox 11:37
I was just gonna say you in 2020 we were dealing with you know, the craziness of all craziness. We got election, we got COVID Very similar line hit me like lightning. I said if we listen, to learn versus listen to persuade, what would happen to our relationships?
Brynne Tillman 11:50
I love that, listen, to learn, versus listen to persuade. That’s great. That’s a great line. Write that down. If you’re listening to this on our podcast, that’s a great line. Listen, to learn.
Casey Jacox 12:05
We should make T-shirts.
Brynne Tillman 12:07
Yeah, I think yeah, I would buy one. So number four?
Casey Jacox 12:14
Power Documentation. So most sales people don’t like using these three letter words, and everyone’s gonna get squirmish, your CRM, right, because CRMs are only for our leaders and managers, because they just want to know what we’re doing. They want to micromanage us, wrong. You guys, everyone out there, CRMs are gold to me, I think I’ve made me look like I went to Harvard, it made me look like I was the smartest in the room always. Just because I listened, I documented. And it gave me a tool to figure out how to follow up with people because they’re telling me what to do next. They’re giving me information I’m using to then ask questions, not calling to convince people I’m using all that data, I gather through conversations, and then using it to further the relationship.
So that really chapter talks about, again, painful lessons of how I was not good at that early in my career. One of the goals of writing the book, when I wrote it, was, I didn’t want to have this sales book that says, “Look at me, I’m so great. I’m all this.” I want it to be like, “look at my gaps, look at my failures, look at things I stunk at and don’t follow the same mistakes early in my career.”
Brynne Tillman 13:12
Sometimes what not to do is a better lesson than what to do in a lot of ways. So I love it. I have a friend who since smartphone, I think since her BlackBerry somehow carried through. She has a CRM for her company, but personally everyone that goes into our contacts, she has notes on the date they met where they met. So we were at a networking meeting. We were at a networking meeting, this guy comes up to her because you look so familiar. I feel like I’ve met you. And she said, “Well, let’s see.” And he goes, “What do you mean let’s see?” And she opens up her contacts and she looks up his name and she’s like, “Yeah, we met five years ago at a conference in Philadelphia. And you have, you know, two kids that are in school district. And he’s like, “Oh my gosh” she’s just like, “everyone I’ve ever met is in there.” So that’s so cool. It’s so cool.
Casey Jacox 14:05
That’s so cool, that’s uncommon right there. And that’s, that’s great. I’m gonna, I might steal that. What’s your friend’s name?
Brynne Tillman 14:09
Casey Jacox 14:11
Shout out. Kimberly. I’m… You coached the coach today. Well done.
Brynne Tillman 14:15
Yeah. She’s awesome. Fabulous. So and she’s actually an amazing interview. If you want somebody well, you shouldn’t do fathers so… but if anyone’s listening and you want to interview really cool person, she’s great. All right, number five.
Casey Jacox 14:31
Five It kind of goes back to the question you asked me earlier about making sales social is really it’s about letting your authentic self shine. It’s about giving tools and ideas and stories and experiences on why being ourselves is the number one most important thing. The worst advice. I hate to call some leaders out when they say fake it to make it. I cannot stand that advice, it’s the worst and why would you not, why would you fake something you’re not to me.
If I’m Flying an airline. If I’m gonna be a passenger, I don’t want my pilot faking it till they make it. It can drive insecurities. You’re not going to be who you are. But I think sometimes the power of realizing that you don’t have all the answers, the power of saying “I don’t know,” is a gift, one of my mentors in life, his named John Kaplan. He said, It’s okay not to know every answer. It’s just not okay not to do anything about it.
And that, to me, always resonated, no matter how successful or unsuccessful or whatever stage in your career, when we show we can ask for help, I think as leaders it does amazing things for your culture because my equation for leadership is humility, plus vulnerability equals leadership. And that power of being yourself power saying, Hey, I don’t have all the answers, but let’s figure it out together. Allows for deeper connection, whether it’s internal or external.
Brynne Tillman 15:50
That’s great. And I don’t think people do that enough. I think they’re very transaction driven. And I think they missed that point significantly. So that’s great, not just a reminder, but how to do well. And authentically, because you care, not because you’re trying to make a sale. Right? So I love it. And what is as we round this out at the sixth common sense strategy?
Casey Jacox 16:17
Relationships take time. They take patience. It takes perseverance. I talked about a story where there’s a shout out to Nadine. If you’re listening it took me five years, she was an executive a former customer of mine. Took five years to build that relationship but it’s tight as tight can be. I can text her right now, I’d be willing to bet she texts back while on this call. I’ve worked that company for years. And just give steps and stories that like I even think about there’s a gentleman I’m coaching right now. And he wants to be promoted. So quick and all he’s focusing on is that he’s been there 10 months. And I’m like, so this is your idea, not theirs yet. You’re not showing your leadership team why they should promote, all you’re doing is bringing negative energy. The person said, let’s change your mindset. Let’s focus on what you do have control over. Let’s focus on building great relationships. All of a sudden, they’re gonna be like, “Man, he or she is doing amazing things, we should probably promote them.” Great idea, Mr. Mrs. Boss, it’s their idea, not yours.
So just reminding people that to one, give yourself grace, in this business development process. It’s hard. It’s not easy. But when you commit to it long term, realizing that it’s… like Simon Sinek says it’s an infinite game, it takes time. And I know sometimes we don’t admit to that, that you got to do it the right way. And I found that over my 20 years, well now 25 years of doing what I’m doing, those six things were the things that helped me sell it an elite level, when I was in corporate.
Brynne Tillman 17:44
I love that. This really powerful information. And this is like the core of your book: “Win the relationship, not the deal. So tell our listeners where they can find that.
Casey Jacox 17:56
Well, it’s on Amazon. It’s on my website, caseyjaycox.com/book, which, and I will say to be the power of on if I’m leading with coachability, our esteemed host of the show coached me before we started. So she gave me great advice about wanting to be coachable. I’m leading from the front here, I’m being coachable. I’m gonna make sure that that redirect is exactly the way it should look to make it easier for all you to go on buy it.
Brynne Tillman 18:25
That’s great. Well, I’m gonna go out and buy it for sure. I really love the concept that it’s really when we ditch the ego, when we’re really in it to be authentic. And we want to be the best people we can be we’re going to show up in a way that will naturally build relationships. So I thank you for these great gems of insight, and I’m excited to hear the successes as people start to put them together. Casey, thank you so much for joining us for Making Sales Social. I know that your insights will have a significant impact on our listeners.
Casey Jacox 19:03
It’s as an honor to be here. Thank you for your time.
Bob Woods 19:05
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