Episode 131: Kay Miller – The “Win-Win Sales” Philosophy

Kay Miller  00:00

Being social means connection and it means community. I even went down a little rabbit hole and looked up the word social and where it comes from and the different meanings and at the root of that word is the word friend and so when we do business with people…

Bob Woods  00:22

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients, so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

Kay Miller  00:44

That’s the operative phrase, we do business with people and if we can do business with friends, that’s even better. 

Bob Woods  00:53

Welcome to Making Sales Social! I’m Bob Woods, Chief Marketing Officer at Social Sales Link where we train and coach both individuals and sales teams on converting connections to sales conversations through the power of LinkedIn and social selling and we do all that without being salesy. You know, nobody really likes that. My guest today is Kay Miller. She was the first woman ever hired for outside sales by Anchor Hawkins Amarok Am I pronouncing it? Is it “e-ma? (Kay: You did! Great.)  Good, Amarok division which makes decorative and functional hardware solutions for kitchen, baths, and home decor and if anyone knows me out there you know that I like my poles on my cabinets. So, I definitely know what that’s all about. 

She was later hired by Walker Exhaust, the largest automotive muffler manufacturer in the world at Walker Exhaust, and this is fantastic. She became a salesperson of the year and earned the glamorous nickname “muffler mama”  which again, I love and if you can get to be known with a nickname like that in your field, that’s just a big chef’s kiss to you. That’s just fantastic. 

Kay is the author of Uncopyable Sales Secrets: How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell Your Competition, right there. This book is packed with strategies you can use to make more sales. I’ve read it and let’s just say there are lots of notes in the margins of my copy. I also liked the fact that it addresses “win-win sales”, which is one of our philosophies here at Social Sales Link, so we have a lot to talk about. 

Kay’s book just came out a few months ago so it’s packed with up-to-date strategies. This isn’t one of those things where someone is selling something from 2016. This is new, this is current. I’m also happy to point out that it has a 4.9 rating on Amazon so people are really liking it too, which is fantastic. And you’re gonna want to hang out with us until the end of the episode. Kay has a special gift for you our always-valued listeners with that, how are you doing today, Kay?

Kay Miller  02:59

I’m great. Thank you so much for that intro. I love it. I love the 4.9 stars, you know (Bob:4.9, hey) not that we pay attention to that or anything.

Bob Woods  00:53

Yeah, no, nothing like that, so what happened to that one tip? But anyhow…No, 4.9 is fantastic!

It’s fantastic, absolutely, congrats! So our first traditional question that we always ask on the show is what does making sales social mean to you?

Kay Miller  03:26

Being social means connection, and it means community. I even went down a little rabbit hole tonight or last night and looked up the word social and where it comes from and the different meanings. And at the root of that word is the word friend. And so, you know, when we do business with people, that’s the operative phrase, we do business with people. And if we can do business with friends, that’s even better. And we talked a little bit about how, you know, our philosophies are very similar with social selling, because we don’t want it to be adversarial. 

I’ve always, you know, loved to have the kind of sales relationship where I help the other person and connect with them on a human level. So yes, that’s what life is all about, right? It really is making a difference to people and human connection. 

Bob Woods  00:53

100% Yeah, I mean, if you can’t bring forth what you do, and how you are just everyday if you can’t bring that forth to business for whatever reason, that might be, why you’re doing it, basically? You know, I mean, life should be good, life should be positive and sometimes the sales process gets very adversarial and it’s like, why? And you know, it really really shouldn’t be like that.

Kay Miller  04:50

Right! Especially when we think of ourselves and how we like to buy, you know, I mean, recently I just bought a new car. I didn’t tell anyone. “Oh, the car dealer sold me a new car” you know, we want to be in control, we want someone to guide us and help us make that decision but that all happens through a social process. 

Now, I know there are some things that we work with clients that have very technical, long drawn out sales cycles, it’s still human to human, and all of those things that you have to do, like build trust and be someone that they want to talk to, you know, it’s, that is where social comes in. 

Bob Woods  05:30

Yeah, and especially in those long drawn out ones, there’s also probably quite a few people involved with that ultimate decision too.

Kay Miller  05:38

Exactly! so you know, and sales, sales isn’t easy. I mean, it’s rewarding, it’s fun, it’s so profitable. And you know, I do think of it, you know, as a game, because you know, how, you know, the sales that you get are your positive reinforcement. It’s so worth it and the challenge when you can rise to that challenge, and have a good relationship. Even, you know, a client of ours came into town a couple of weeks ago and took me out to dinner, the client took me. So it was great. So yes, being social, being true to who you are. 

Bob Woods  06:13

Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. So that actually gets into my next question of just in terms of this concept of “win-win sales.” So when everyone comes out with a smile on their face, that is the very definition of win-win. And you just went through that with the client who took you out to dinner. Why don’t you tell us a little more about that, and your kind of view of what that looks like when it comes to sales? 

Kay Miller  04:50

Well, the “win-win” is really, as we talked about understanding the customer, understanding their pain, their problem, or their aspiration, and truly wanting to help that customer achieve that. If you’re in any kind of relationship sales, which is what we deal with, and I think you listening, haven’t read a relationship sales, you know, we’re not the door-to-door salesperson who I bought a crate of grapefruit from one time when I was pregnant and had horrible acid reflux but you know what, I bought it. My husband is like, “what the heck are you thinking?” I’m like, I wasn’t, and he’s gone, so hey, good for him. 

But everybody listening, when you know, listening to this, we want relationships. And the only way to do that is to really understand them, and be their trusted adviser, suggest to them what would be the best option but that is after a long, you know, well, I shouldn’t say that because when I bought a car, they were very good about boiling it down to what I wanted. And this was the second car I bought from this dealer because they were so great. 

Bob Woods: 05:56

Yeah, even with transactional sales and that thought just kind of bubbled up in my mind, because generally speaking, you think of car dealerships, and it’s transactional, the ones that don’t think like that, just like in case, those are the ones you go back to.

Kay Miller 08:06

They are and I remember when I called one time, it said on their, you know, whatever their answering system, “where service sells the second car,” so it’s a whole bunch of things that you do, right? But yeah, the relationship doesn’t end just right when you make the sale. You really want them to win. In many cases, if you can find a way to help your customer’s customer win, say, you know, I work with a manufacturer, well, they’ve got distributors, and this happened recently. 

Well, the distributor has a whole bunch of things to sell and so your product might, you know, fall to the backburner. So if you can help your distributor or whatever the customer’s customer, be more educated, you know, give them some incentive to promote your product, you’re helping your customer and you’re helping them look really good. So look for creative ways to create wins for your customer. 

Obviously, when we sell to the right customer, it is a win but we want to focus on giving them the right solution. I love it when a customer says, “Yeah, that’s what I want.” instead of trial closes and all that stuff. You know, you’re going through, you’re saying, “Does this sound like what we’re talking about?” And “Does this sound like we’re talking about and what else…”   by the time you get into the end of the conversation, and you totally get it, right? It’s just a partnership that you’re walking through ideally.

Bob Woods: 09:35

Right! And it’s almost like a win-win and then continuing to win at that point. 

Kay Miller 09:41

Right, and, you know, that’s all in the book too about follow-up isn’t just before you make the sale. Follow-up is also how you can keep in touch with your customers and provide value, you know, not hey, you know, just you know, think… put some thought into what would mean something to them and, and have some type of way to stay in touch. 

Bob Woods:10:04

Exactly. So this all gets into, like, personal branding. And we talk about that a lot when it comes to the branding of the salesperson themselves. And that’s obviously in, you know, with the company and everything else but why is that important? And how do salespeople do that, especially if they’re at a company that, you know, let’s just say isn’t really supportive of the individual salespeople going out and building their own brand under the company’s brand?

Kay Miller 10:36

Right! And, you know, and one of the reasons I think that companies might be reluctant to do that is because salespeople can take their customers with them when they go. And I know multiple, you probably do, too, where the salesperson is so good, that when they leave the customers says “Well, this other product is good enough. What I want is, you know, the salesperson” so yeah, you might not be able to do as many tangible things to build your brand but to me the brand is your promise, it’s what you represent to the customer. 

We just got blinds all through our house from all the same Budget Blinds, they were awesome. When the franchise owner came in, he told me straight up, “I want to find out what you want, what your budget is, and then I want to get you the best deal, you know, within your budget for the best product” he just flat out told me. 

So I don’t see how that could conflict really with any company, because he’s telling me what his brand is, what his promise is. Yeah, I’m glad that you agree because also, you know, being trustworthy, and honest, those are huge in sales. And that really should be part of any successful salesperson’s brand. Following up when you say you will when you make a promise, you need to follow up on that. And so you’ve got, you know, your promise to the customer, you’ve got trust. And then you’ve also got an opportunity to create your own stories. 

Now, as you know, throughout my book, The whole thing is stories. (Bob: Stories)  when you start on the book, saying “My first sales call was a disaster”

Bob Woods 12:23

Absolutely. Absolutely, and yeah!

 Kay Miller  12:25

I bet you have a story too!

 Bob Woods  12:27

Oh yeah, all kinds of stories. So if you read a book “Uncopyable Sales Secrets”  just look for the steel-toed boots story.

 Kay Miller  12:36

Right, the steel-toed boots story. And as we talk about being social, I know on LinkedIn, I’ve heard some of your conversations with Brynne, etc. About how we know where’s the line between sharing too much on social on too much social on LinkedIn? Haven’t you had that conversation? 

Bob Woods  12:56

Yeah, that went to more of too more personal, social, you know, kind of more like Facebook types of things, as opposed to being you know, showing your personality and doing everything that we just discussed, but keeping it more, keeping it more on a business level, rather than talking about what you did over the weekend. Almost what you did over the weekend has to do with business, you know, that’s okay but you know, there is that line, it kind of moves. And every once in a while, you just kind of go, “eeh, you know, something, I don’t care if this is truly important to me, I’m going to share it” but generally speaking, it was about the “Facebookafication” which is a long word, but it’s actually pretty accurate about what when it comes to LinkedIn. 

Kay Miller  13:53

Interesting, interesting. Well, like you said, you can’t, unless the story has something to do with business. And so, you know, back to the social part, we all remember stories. So stories that have to do with business, stories that have something that you did, or that happened with one of your customers. Those are huge and as far as the steel toe boots story that became one of my stories when I was back selling mufflers, I was one of the only women and I did something that no one else had none of the other reps and said, “will you teach me to install a muffler?” and they were delighted they thought this is cool, you know well then they said the first thing you need to do is buy steel toe boots which at the time were not my fashion choice you know and I tell a story in the in the book that at that time the movie Flashdance had come out and in the opening scene if you’re old enough to remember they pan in on someone welding and it turns out that it’s Jennifer Beals looking gorgeous. And she’s on some type of assembly line and so her goal is to be a dancer, but this is what she’s doing to pay the bills. 

Well, when they pull back, or when they pan in I’m sorry, she removes her helmet. And she looks gorgeous and I couldn’t help myself when I was under that car, I thought of Jennifer Beals. So I’m under welding this muffler system together, feeling pretty smug and pretty proud of myself and then when I took my helmet off, I looked in the mirror, I looked very different than Jennifer Beals but the beauty of that story is that it got me so much respect. And I was talking with a group of clients that I have on a mastermind. And it’s amazing how many stories you as a salesperson might have of something that you’ve done to go over. And, you know, above and beyond, I should say, what is expected. 

Anytime you do that, or you go learn something that nobody else really knows, share that information that can be part of your brand, that the company, you know, no company would have a problem with. So it’s really declaring what you’re doing for your customer, and how important they are. 

Bob Woods  16:17

And who knows, you may become the “muffler mama” of your own industry, which again, is absolutely fantastic. (Kay: Yes, love so well, it definitely sets me apart.) Yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt and that’s fantastic. So let’s, we’re not changing gears a little bit but let’s just talk a little bit more about one of the topics you have directly in your book, the importance of focusing on your moose, and I do mean m-o-o-s-e, moose, can you talk us through a little bit about what that means and why salespro should be doing that? 

Kay Miller  16:53

Sure! And if you’re watching, not listening, you can see that there is a picture of a moose prominently displayed behind me and the moose represents your ideal target market. So whether you call it your persona, or the avatar, you know, those are words that have been used a lot, you know, different words have been used, but we want to be unique and uncopyable. So we have decided that we would call that target market, your moose. 

And the analogy is that if you were out hunting, and you wasted time hunting, bear or rabbits or any other kind of animal, if you were really intent on getting moose, that would be a big waste of time. So it’s you know, it’s the niche, it’s who is the exact right fit for you. And, you know, focusing on what that particular customer needs. 

So instead of blasting out, you know, in LinkedIn, I suppose, you know, trying to connect with everybody really studying who your moose is, and one great way to do that is to say, Who are my best customers now? You know, what do I love about them? How are they benefiting? And then you can get a profile? And say, “Okay, where, you know, how can I find more of those moose?” So it’s just a great visual and anytime you ask a question, like, should I send this out? Or should I post this? or, you know, talk about who is my moose? 

Bob Woods  18:29

And then sometimes, I don’t know if this is a great analogy, but there are different kinds of moose. So you know, what if you’re interested in like a different specific subset of most, so in other words, really zero in, and sometimes you have to zero in beyond like, just most moose in general too  I mean, you really need to know exactly who you’re going after.

Kay Miller  18:51

Right! Because you know, and I think when I was number one salesperson, it was so strategic, so that you have to ask, you know, I mean, it’s the 80/20 rule, okay, 80% of your sales will come from 20% of your accounts usually. And then you can keep drilling down 80% of those sales. So you’ve got your, who is your big hairy moose, and who is your hungry moose that knows they have a problem or are dissatisfied because, you know, until you make someone dissatisfied, they’re, you know, they’re not going to be a great buyer. 

Bob Woods  19:25

Absolutely! So next I want to get into something that you said in your book, “People don’t want to be sold, but they love to buy” and there’s a quote that I really thought was good from the book. “It’s our job as salespeople to figure out what the prospects’ desired experience if they knew it was available, looks, sounds and feels like and then help them buy the very thing that will make that experience happen.” 

So we can all kind of visualize that in terms of what that is. What happens when either the customer doesn’t really know what the experience should be or what happens when the experience actually changes as you’re taking them through the process. 

Kay Miller  20:13

So I think a lot of times the customer doesn’t know what the experience is, you know, I think of Steve Jobs and the iPhone, you know, no one even knew what was possible. And so, you know, I do tell a book, a story in the book about going to Europe and getting a guide, who asked us all the questions that you know, about what we wanted to do and what the experience was going to be like, we had our kids with us. And then that was a great example of this as we were on the trip. And it happened to be super hot that day, and I ended up fainting in the Roman Forum and so he changed the whole plan, okay, we’re gonna go to cooler spots, we’re not going to walk as much, you know, whatever he changed. 

Do you change the experience? I think as sellers, we will often say we get a price objection. We need to help our customers think through what all these things mean. You know, how much inventory do you have to stock or, you know, I remember when I was selling mufflers, we had a lifetime warranty on our product, the cheaper competitor also had a lifetime warranty. So they would say, well, what’s the difference? So we had to delve down and say, “Okay, what happens when a customer brings a muffler back?” it turned out, the customer expected a free muffler, but the auto shop would have to do all the installation, and there would be other parts they’d have to buy and so the customer would get ticked off when they got a bill that was almost as high as you know, the original one. 

So whether it’s saying I can you know, rebates are coming up, I’m gonna keep you a price of all of that. You really, you know, would it be? I’ll give you another example of a machine on a manufacturing floor. The keeper competitor did not have the safety restrictions. Well, one of the competition’s machines had an explosion. And luckily, no one was hurt but that allowed the salespeople to say now, how important is safety to you? “Well, oh, you know, pretty, you know…” you see what I’m saying.

You have to really think of the things they’re not thinking and educate them. Like you would a good friend. (Bob: Yeah! Again, relationship. Absolutely!) And, really, to do the best job at making sales and make it a “win-win” you do have to find the right moose because if you have the wrong target customer, you’re not going to be able to get them to buy and be happy.

Bob Woods  23:05

Excellent. Excellent. So now we have our most defined, we have the mindset that we’ve been talking about and everything else. How do you then take it to the next step and create your own uncopyable advantage?

Kay Miller  23:19

You know, the Uncopyable Advantage to me, I talk about it like a salad because a lot of ingredients go into it. I feel like your branding promise is very important. It might be that you know, so you have what you are offering to the customer. 

One example in the book is that one of the IT salespeople said, “I give white glove service.” So describe what you offer and what you mean to the customer. Have your stories that back that up, you know, have a work ethic and be trustworthy and then you also want to be memorable. So “muffler mama” like you said, very memorable. We, you know, our color branding color is orange, we always wear orange. So think of what you can do to stand out like we like to say, “look at what everyone else is doing and don’t do it.”

It seems obvious, but in the book, also, I talked about getting in the door, which is more of a you know, traditional sales versus LinkedIn but you see everyone doing the same thing. Everyone is emailing or sending out a LinkedIn message or whatever. I mean, we do, now a lot of direct mail because you stand out if you know your moose, look at what everyone else is doing and don’t do it. Be different.

Bob Woods  24:40

Absolutely. Absolutely. So the next question is what’s the biggest mistake most salespeople make? I suppose one of the answers is doing the exact same thing that everyone else is doing, like you just said. 

Kay Miller  24:52

I think really the biggest and it’s so simple is that and I’ll say “we,” we don’t listen, I have so many, so many and you know, it’s interesting. In a podcast, I told my husband, this is the perfect job for me because my job is to talk but in a sales situation, (Bob: You have to listen) we have to listen. And this goes back to Dale Carnegie and all the sales books and all the wisdom of the ages but it’s a discipline. I think it’s a discipline. Also, I think it’s a mistake to not let silence happen, because a lot of salespeople keep talking and buy back the sale. So that is the mistake I see people making.

Bob Woods  25:35

kind of like that, that was silence. And so yeah, I mean, sometimes, yes, silence, silence can actually work for you. And, you know, when you listen to podcasts, and there’s great back and forth and great exchanges like this, and we’re obviously listening to one another and playing off of one another. That’s what the sales conversations should be like too so you know, maybe imagine that you’re on a podcast with your prospect.

Kay Miller  26:01

That’s a great suggestion. I love it!

Bob Woods  26:03

I just came up with that too some sometimes, you know, something. I didn’t feel a lightning bolt hit me but, you know, sometimes it happens. So, we all love those, “What’s that one thing you can do right now takeaways” kind of thing. So what’s the one thing our listeners can do today to make more sales based on your strategies?

Kay Miller  26:25

I would recommend that you pick up the phone or maybe have to email them first one customer and say, “Why do you buy from me?” You know, in your words, what is it that I offer? That makes me the one you want to, you know, buy from? We might think we know the answer, I think we do think we know the answer but you would be surprised. Maybe it is just that I know I don’t have to worry about anything. I know you will take care of me. It might be something that has nothing to do even with your product or service. So that’s a great way to get some information that you can use later when you sell.  

Bob Woods  27:07

That’s just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Especially in the “You might think you know, but you don’t really know” type of thing that’s just fantastic. The book Uncopyable Sales Secrets: How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell Your Competition by Kay Miller. 

You can buy it by going to uncopyablesales.com and clicking the link. You can also go to Amazon and just search it there too. You’ll also find downloads to resources guides as well as a lot more information about Kay and how she can help you.

And now it’s time for, as we call it in the sales biz, the CTA. So when you go to uncopyablesales.com/makingsalessocial. She’s giving away an excerpt from Chapter Three of the Uncopyable Sales Secrets book. This has to do with crafting the personal brand. And I’ve read it. It’s excellent. And as we said before, when a chapter starts with a line. So this is what it’s like to install a muffler. Yeah, that definitely has me hooked any day of the week. 

If you want to email Kay directly, it’s [email protected]. She’s also on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/millerkay. So flip her first and last name for that. That’s a great idea. If you’re looking for that personalized URL too, sometimes just flipping the first and last name is all you need to do. Kay this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for your time.

Kay Miller  28:36

Thank you, Bob. It was a pleasure.

Bob Woods  28:37

Sure, sure. Absolutely. And thank you for streaming this episode of Making Sales Social. And remember when you’re out and about this week, be sure to make your sales social, bye-bye.

Bob Woods  28:50

Thanks for watching and join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Hit the Subscribe button below to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast. Give this video a thumbs up and comment down below on what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com for more information.

Resources Mentioned:

Buy Kay’s book Uncopyable Sales Secrets by going to uncopyablesales.com. You’ll also gain access to various downloadable resources as well as more information on Kay and how she can help you.

Want a sneak peek of her book? Go to uncopyablesales.com/makingsalessocial. Kay’s giving away an excerpt from Chapter Three, which has something to do with crafting the personal brand.