Episode 143: Jeff Rogers – Stop Working, Start Playing

Jeff Rogers  00:00

Social Selling, I think, is all about translating what we do in person to a digital font, if you will, and still engaging, still creating that relationship, and still having that laughter having that bond that we would create in person.

Intro  00:16

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients, so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

Bob Woods  00:42

Welcome to Making Sales Social. I’m Bob Woods, Chief Marketing Officer at Social Sales Link, where we train and coach both individuals and sales teams on converting connections to sales conversations through the power of LinkedIn and social selling without being salesy, of course. So we’re gonna plunge right into things with this question. What do Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and the Second City Theater all have in common? The answer, and my guest today, is Jeff Rogers. 

Jeff is a Wall Street Journal in USA Today, best-selling author, and award-winning television and live event host  (remember live events, you remember those?) And a sought-after public speaker with more than 25 years of experience engaging and delighting audiences as a performer at Second City, and I am Oh, so envious to say that, but as a performer, a second city, he learned about improvisation while on stage with folks like Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, Rachel Dratch, and Tina Fey, and I’m guessing you probably know a couple of those names and at Harvard, Stanford and MIT, he studied design thinking, which is the process of innovation. 

So what happens when you combine Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Second City together, you either get a really weird smoothie, or you learn something exciting, and you learn new ways to think differently. Now in the author category, Jeff wrote the Playmaker Mindset, which presents a radically fun way to build a culture of teamwork and instant innovation and instant part is really good. I like that. He also uses a phrase that I love, “Stop working and start playing,” which is just chef’s kiss, as they say, the book has a 4.8 out of five-star rating on Amazon, and after today’s Making Sales Social episode, I think you’ll know why that is. So with that, how are things in Chicago, Jeff?

Jeff Rogers  02:44

They’re fantastic, Bob, thanks for having me on the show.

Bob Woods  02:46

It’s excellent to have you on. So our first traditional question always is, what does making sales social mean to you? 

Jeff Rogers  02:56

Well, Bob, if I can read from the page that you gave me to read for this question, which is odd for an interview. You know, actually, that is a perfect example of what making sales social means. It means making a connection. And I think that a lot of people, when they’re utilizing social media, they forget about that connection aspect. Sales, and it’s so important. I think one of the tricky parts and one of the things that you do really well is help people translate that relationship to a digital relationship and vice versa, right, you act as a translator for that.

I am absolutely not getting paid to plug Bob in his services, meaning I should be getting paid Bob, you might want to think about that. But the point is, I think that’s a difficult thing to do, it’s a challenge for a lot of salespeople, especially for those of us who are used to doing things in person, even on the phone, right, we have that connection. So social selling, I think, is all about translating what we do in person to a digital font, if you will, and still engaging, still creating that relationship and still having that laughter, having that bond that we would create in person.

Bob Woods  04:19

That’s a great definition and the checks in the mail. So what I’m wondering is because I went through so many different things, and people are probably like, how does this happen? How does someone go from point A to not even point B? I don’t know if this is like point F, point G, or something like that, but how would you describe who you are and especially what you do today?

Jeff Rogers  04:44

I think that I’m a bit of a polyglot in terms of, I am always curious. I really love to take things apart and see how they work. I got attracted to improvisation because it really forces you to work in the moment. You have to be present, you really have to be right there. And most of the scenarios that I’ve been attracted to, it’s a very similar scenario, you have to be curious and be in the moment for innovation, as well as improvisation, and really for sales. Because if you’re in your head thinking about Okay, the next thing I’m going to say is this, the next thing I’m going to say is this, you’re going to miss one of the things, one of the great clues that they’re gonna give you about what they need, right? Whether it’s a latent need, an intrinsic need, extrinsic– it’s all in the listening. 

And so if you’re not present at that moment, it becomes really difficult to identify what it is that they actually need. And very often, it’s not what they’re asking for, you know, we see that all the time in sales, right is they’re asking for one thing, but what they need is what you can give them, and so you need to let them know, we’re going to get to where you want to go through the methodology that we utilize and it’s not quite exactly the way you think we should go, but it is what’s going to get you what you need. 

So I would say curiosity is the thing that really drives most of my, you know, most of my various different plates that I have spinning, and it’s a great place to come from because you just keep learning, and people and things are endlessly interesting if you allow them to open up to you and you get involved in it.

Bob Woods  06:29

 Yeah, that’s really interesting because, and, and it’s funny that you bring up the whole curiosity and improvisation thing because even we at Social Sales Link, when we’re in group coaching and things like that, we emphasize the “Yes, and” which is “yes, comma, and” which is one of the if not the key driving force behind improvisation but to do that, you really need to be listening, you really need to be in that moment without thinking ahead. When you’re thinking “yes, and” it almost takes that thinking ahead out so that you can react and really listen to and be present with the person who you’re speaking to or the people who you’re speaking to.

Jeff Rogers  07:13

let me “Yes, and” what you just said because I think that you’ve really encapsulated a couple of elements there. And I think of “Yes, and” a little bit deeper than what a lot of people think of it is. So “yes, and” is a tenant of improvisation, you need to use “yes, and” onstage in front of an audience. So let me give just a two-second explanation of improv. So coming up in Chicago, improvisation, the home of improvisation, the home of Second City, improvisation is the act of getting up in front of an audience not having any lines of dialogue, not knowing what, where your scene will take place, asking for a suggestion from the audience as to what they would like to see a scene about and then creating that onstage, real-time with other performers. And it has to be fun, it has to be enjoyable, or at least it has to be engaging for the audience because they paid money to see it. That’s a level of interaction with the audience that most people would be very frightened by, you don’t have a safety net, there’s nothing there for you, right? 

So we use “Yes, and” to support each other on stage, it’s accepting what they’re giving in terms of their ideas or their, you know, their ways of creating that scene, and then adding to it with the “and.” But I want to take that one step further, and it goes directly to your idea of how to react, and I would counter that you don’t want to be someone who reacts as much as you’d want to be someone who responds. And in response, you stay within what your belief and value system is, and you respond in kind, as opposed to reacting to somebody else’s, whatever energy they’re giving off, whether it’s a crisis, and they’re frenetic, whether it’s, you know, they’re depressed, things aren’t going well. 

So you can respond from where you are, but I’ll tell you the Yes, part of it gets a lot of people confused. They think, “Oh, I gotta agree to everything.” It’s not what yes means. The “yes and yes, and should” mean radical acceptance. So what does that mean? That means that you are going to accept the reality of what’s going on. And so few of us are able to do it, and I’m certainly not perfect at it, but that ability to address what is truly happening and accept that that’s the reality that you’re in. I mean, that’s why it’s called radical acceptance, but you also do it without judgment. And that’s the other part of that balance, right? No judgment and that really does feed the psychological safety and need both in the workspace with a client when you’re selling or onstage. 

So that’s why these tenets of improvisation of do not deny yes, and listen are such great tools for both sales and improvisational theater. So they really does translate well. And so that idea of “Yes, and” transcends the idea of being a yes person. It’s much more about being someone who can respond from radical acceptance and non-judgment, in order to give an authentic response

Bob Woods  10:22

Yeah, react versus respond. I think that that’s just there. It’s such a simple statement, but it encompasses so much and just brilliant, absolutely brilliant. With that in mind, and especially talking about your improv experience, we could probably go on for hours just about experiences that you’ve had with all these different people but what I’d like to know is maybe just one or two notable events that really led you to the work that you do today.

Jeff Rogers  10:54

Yeah, boy, I gotta tell you, I did have the opportunity to work with so many genius comedians and improvisers onstage and really just amazing people. And one of the things that I always identified with what they were doing is that there was no sense of fear in what they were doing. And that to me and or in my own work on stage. Now, let me be completely transparent here. When I first started improvising, it would take an entire bottle of Pepto Bismol to get me on stage. My stomach would be churning, right, but I really wanted to do this, and I realized as I progressed and I got better at it, I lost that sense of fear, and I gained a sense of play. And that opened up everything for me. 

Once I realized that when I’m in a play mindset or a playmaker mindset, I’m utterly fearless because I’ve lowered the stakes in order to raise my game. When you play, you’re exploring, you’re curious. When children play, they come running up to the other kid, right? And go, “Hey, you want to play?” The other kid goes, “Yeah, okay.” And they run off and go play. They don’t say that. “Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let’s go down the checklist.” When you say play, what are the rules going to be for our engagement? So I understand when that–No, it’s let’s go explore, have fun, be curious and see what we can learn. That was a big thing for me. That moment of identifying a play mentality because your body changes. 

When you think of work, your body reacts, muscle memory comes into play, and immediately it’s “ahhh…” That’s why we don’t like Mondays, right? It’s all of those things wrapped up with how our muscles remember what work is like but when we think of play, even just do it right now, if you’re watching, think of play and what it makes you feel like just whatever play it is, whatever you’re thinking, it’s a better feeling. It’s a lighter feeling. All of a sudden, “yeah, I can do anything. Let’s try it. Let’s certainly try those things.” 

So I got very interested in the idea of play, and through that study, I realized that Innovation and Play had a lot in common. It’s the use and the application of creativity and imagination. Social selling, I think, is all about translating what we do in person to a digital font, if you will, and still engaging, still creating that relationship and still having that laughter, having that bond that we would create in person. And that’s what play is and when you apply that mindset to innovation, all of a sudden, it opens all of these doors. I always talk about it when we get stressed and this is a physiological condition, we narrow our vision, right and in fact, when we get really stressed and we pass out that vision just completely cuts out. But our vision narrows when we’re in a sense of play, and we feel psychologically safe, like it widens out, so we’re able to see more and leverage more of our knowledge and our experience and pull that to the fore and use it as part of our creative juices. 

Those are the two sort of big moments of okay, I know I like to play and I know that innovation is incredibly important. How can these two things come together? And that’s really what led to the book and to, you know, the speaking that I do now? 

Bob Woods  14:22

Yes, so, and speaking of things like that. I did want to talk a little bit about the book because I’m gonna be ordering it here pretty quick. I mean, everything that I’ve read about it seems fantastic for those of you who are interested, the full title of the book is the “Playmaker Mindset” a radically fun way to build a culture of teamwork and instant innovation. So it seems kind of natural to me that improvisation and innovation actually fit together but I’m guessing that there’s probably more to that right?

Jeff Rogers  14:57

You know, a little bit, yeah, not a lot, though. I think we’re good. Let’s go on to the next question. 

Bob Woods  15:04

Okay, next question. Yeah, let’s do that.

Jeff Rogers  15:06

The thing that I brought to this was that when I looked at Design Thinking, it was very much engineering driven, right? When we think of design, we think of the design of a building, the design of a product, the design of a user interface. And that’s engineer-driven, or, you know, it’s really thought of in terms of how somebody is going to interact with it. The problem is that most people think of design thinking in the same way, and they immediately get that block. “That sounds complicated,” or “what do we have to do to get there?” When I looked at it, I looked at the rules that they have for design thinking, and they mirrored the fundamental tenets of improvisation, they mirrored the ideas of “Yes, ANDing” ideas, coming up with a bunch of ideas, right, divergent thinking, and then convergent thinking where you’re bringing the ideas down to the ones that you really think are feasible, viable, and desirable. And in that way, everybody gets to participate. So again, we’ve got that ensemble mindset, where everybody is playing, and everybody is supporting each other’s ideas. There’s no judgment. And so all of these things really tracked and lined up well, with improvisation.

What I did was made that first step much easier and more fun to get into the process of design, thinking and innovation. My thinking was always if people enjoy that first step, they’ll take the next step, and once they do, then they realize, “okay, I see where this goes, I see how this moves forward.” And that’s really what the playmaker mindset is all about, it’s about making that first step easy. Again, lowering the stakes in order to raise your game, lowering that sense of fear or reaction, and increasing that idea of being able to respond as you, authentically you. So you can offer up to 10 ideas, and nine of them might be terrible, but that one idea might be awesome when it’s paired with this person’s one idea out of their 10 ideas. And you start building like that once you’ve identified the actual challenges that you’re working on. 

So that was really the genesis of that, and then I really got into design thinking, and like you mentioned, I studied at Stanford, and MIT and Harvard, and everybody has a slightly different tack on it, right? Everybody does it slightly differently. I found it interesting as well. I was like, “Well, okay, so does my theory still work about that first step?” And what I realized was Stanford is very interesting to me is that one group looked very much at the human-centered design aspect of it, one group looked at the financial and viable business aspect of it, and another group really looked at sort of thinking outside the box aspect of it. But what I realized that the same first step was still missing in all of these programs is to get people to feel comfortable, being creative, playing using the same muscles they did as children to bring those to bear. 

A lot of people don’t realize how critically important play is to our everyday lives. The opposite of work is not play, okay? The opposite of play is depression. So when you think about it, that way, you realize that you can still play at work, and get a ton done and be the person that you want to be, be that authentic person who enjoys where they are because they’re curious about what they’re doing. They’re trying, they’re supporting each other, they’re getting supported, it creates an entirely different culture for people to exist in, as opposed to, unfortunately, the culture that a lot of people exist in your nine to fives.

Bob Woods  18:57

Yeah! it’s funny you say that because I mean, when people ask me about what I do, and everything else, and after I tell them, I just I’m, and I’m always saying, you know because it’s also fun. It’s fun. I mean, what I do, and you know, what I take from it, is just, it’s fun. And a lot of that has to do with the creative process. And I’m also very education-oriented, I enjoy and have fun sharing everything that I know with other people to help them out. And it’s just, you know, it’s I can’t come up with a more detailed explanation with a –It’s just fun. It’s just fun. I have a good time doing it. If I didn’t have a good time doing it. I wouldn’t be doing this.

Jeff Rogers  19:37

Well. Here’s a crazy question, right? (Bob: Sure.) What if work is supposed to be fun? (Bob: Yeah, I know, right?) We’re still measuring work by our pre-industrial age, tools, metrics, right? You gotta grind it out. You kind of work hard from morning to night. It’s like none of that is actually what we’re doing nowadays, it has changed radically. And frankly, Gen Z is looking at some of the older generations going, “Wait, why do I have to work eight hours if I can get my work done in four? Why?” You know, you’re paying me for the work, not for the hours, right? And so it really that shift, there’s a huge shift in, I think, how we look at work and what’s important about work. 

That is, we’re in the midst of it was accelerated by the pandemic. And then I also think that sales is going to play the most important role in that entire process, the role of salesperson is going to both broaden and be, I think, even more, critical than it is now. And I’ve always thought sales is a critical aspect of any company, anybody who tells you differently doesn’t know what a company does, right? (Bob: Right. Exactly. Yep.) So I think it’s going to be just, it’s going to be even more of a focus than it is now.

Bob Woods  21:02

Absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, you’re right. If a company ever comes out and says, “Well, we don’t sell anything. It’s like, yeah, right, whatever. What are you trying to sell me?” Well, yeah, but it can be fun. And it should be fun and cooperative and everything that obviously both you and I believe in as well. If you’re just punching a clock and coming in and out, and you’re not having fun, then figure out a way to have fun or do something else. 

Jeff Rogers  21:28

Well, I think a lot of the companies that have that type of worker are finding it very difficult to find employment or employees right now because they’re asking those same questions.

Bob Woods  21:41

Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of things, sales and things like that, let’s talk a little bit more about what salespeople can do on calls and things like that because you’ve already mentioned, you know, we should be out there having fun. And but, you know, salespeople may not be thinking, “Well, how do I go into a call and have fun and yet do my job and maybe not look like I’m having fun? I’m not really sure. What do you think about that?”

Jeff Rogers  22:08

I think a lot of people conflate the idea of having fun with something that’s not challenging, and the actual recipe for happiness that they’ve done, and all the positive psychology has to do with being challenged in what you do. So if you want to be happy and enjoy what you’re doing, right, by having fun, it’s actually by being challenged in that work. So if a client is, you know, they’re kind of on the fence, they’re not sure what they’re going to do, and they, you know, we’ve got to go through this loophole, and this, you know, all of these things in order to land that client, if you’re enjoying that process, it’s of “Yeah, all right, well, then let’s, let’s do what we need to do” really embracing it passionately, then you’re actually having fun. You’re enjoying the work you have to do because it is a challenge to you. 

If it was very easy, everybody would do it. And a really good challenge is going to show you what you’re capable of doing in terms of the work that you do. And I think there’s nowhere that that is more readily apparent than sales, you know, for performers on stage, you know, instantly whether or not you’re succeeding or not, right? You get a review, right? In the moment, I would say a half a second behind that in sales because, you know, you got the feeling of what you’re doing and how they’re responding if you’re present and in the moment. 

So I think by embracing the passion that you have for helping other people. Listening to what they’re doing, listening to what they need, and really adapting to the shifts and the changes, the pivots, that are going to come your way, you’re never going to walk in and go, “here’s my spiel, boom! Sale” No one does that. But if you can be passionate, you listen, you can adapt, and then “yes, and” what they actually need, well that’s what play is, right? P-L-A-Y– passion, listening, adapting, and Yes-anding so that you can radically accept what’s going on and give them what they actually need. 

Bob Woods  24:10

Yeah, I can see a lot of people thinking that I do play all the time, but I think what they might actually be doing is plot, and they’re not really doing the yes-anding part because they’re still concerned about what they want. And I think that the “Y,” the “Yes, and” part really broadens things more. I don’t know if you’d agree with that or not.

Jeff Rogers  24:31

I think that’s spot on. Because we attach an ego to the reality that we’ve created. And our desire for reinforcement is attached to that. If we can separate our ego from that and radically accept what is real, A we’ll be more successful because anybody who can identify what’s actually happening and then where that’s actually going to go is going to have a lot more success than somebody who sees it with a filter, and then ends up at the end of the day saying, “I really thought they were going to, they were going to go with me they were going to buy, they were going to make that move, sign that contract. I really thought I had them. I don’t understand what went wrong.” 

Well, I tell you what, 99 times out of 100, you didn’t radically accept the reality that they had invited you into. And instead, you reacted to what they said instead of responding to what they need. And, you know, that’s a little bit of, you know, sales one on one. And I don’t mean that in an insulting way, but rather, what we do is we forget the fundamentals sometimes, I know that I do, and I have to be reminded to kind of get back to what’s making me successful in what I do. That’s listening. That’s yes-anding, that’s adapting and going at all of that passionately. So it’s, I think you’re absolutely right that “yes, and” can be all the difference.

Bob Woods  25:50

Good to know. And it makes me glad that I took improv training, a little bit of it so many years ago, and actually brings up a question, would you suggest improv training for salespeople?

Jeff Rogers  26:01

100%. Listen, improv is sales, sales is improvisation. Every salesperson out there is an improviser, there is no salesperson with their salt who hasn’t sat there gone. “Oh, I didn’t see that coming. Let’s go ahead and respond with where I think I can help out here.” What’s great about improv training is that it will give you the tools to respond immediately in the moment instead of throwing you off or not accepting the unexpected.

You’re able to sit there in the midst of the storm and go “Sure, no, I see that. I see exactly where you’re going with it. So let’s talk about that a little bit.” And it won’t throw you off your game because you’re already experienced with being thrown curveballs onstage in front of a class or in front of an audience. So it absolutely reinforces the best things about sales, listening, working together, and supporting your partner, right? For the longest time, everyone was using that term, right? You got to become a trusted advocate for your client, a trusted adviser. 

Well, how do you think you earn that trust?  You’ve got to be there for them and support them. And that’s how they extend that trust to you that they believe you’re looking out for their best interests. That’s a big part of what improvisation does for you. You have to be there. One of the things that we say to each other backstage before going out on stages, I’ve got your back. You absolutely want to let everybody know in your, in your ensemble or on your team or your client know, what I’m here to do is to make you look good, and no one’s gonna stop me from doing that. So let’s get to work.

Bob Woods  27:42

So what I really liked about what you just said is that you took…because I think salespeople really think of improv as having to be funny all the time. And it’s like, no, you can take the concepts of it, you don’t have to be funny. In fact, in the sales situation, you know, you can crack jokes, stuff like that, but you don’t really have to be funny. But take those tools that you learn. And then, as you just said, become that trusted adviser because you’re fully present, you are fully invested in the conversation, and in what the customer needs.

Jeff Rogers  28:16

That’s exactly what it’s all about. It’s about utilizing the tools. Listen, you learn how to write a screenplay. And the screenwriter can write a comedy or a drama, you know, that’s up to them, but they’re using the same tools to do both salespeople are doing the same thing. You use the tools of improvisation. The reason I think that people think of improv and immediately go to comedy is because improvisation if you’re doing it well and authentically, you’re showing a little bit of vulnerability. And when you do that, you share a universal truth.

I may not have gone through exactly the same thing you’re talking about, but I know it, I’ve been through something similar, or I can understand it. And when we do that, it immediately makes us feel good. We released, literally chemically in the brain, oxytocin, right? It’s that feel good drug in the brain that we release when we have a connection with somebody. And that’s what that is. It’s not necessarily a joke or comedy, but it is a connection that has value. And it’s that bond, that connection, that makes somebody make a decision to go with you or go with your competitor. So the more that you can use these tools and build those bonds of trust and connection, the more you’ll lean into what comes next, which is persuasion and influence. So but you gotta start with trust first.

Bob Woods  29:36

Yeah, absolutely. 100% As we’re all going back out into the world, and we’re actually seeing people live again. And a lot of that is also happening with sales organizations, and you’re probably doing a lot of live stuff again, I’m starting to go out and start to do live stuff again. But I’ve also been in the audience at live things where I’m getting hit with communications. And it’s just like, What? What are they talking about? How are they trying to relate to me? So what I’m wondering is what can leadership, whether it’s sales leadership, the C suite, whatever, what can they do better to communicate with and connect with, I think, their audience too?

Jeff Rogers  30:20

Yeah, there’s a number of things. Don’t try to overdo it. So many speakers get up on stage, you know, VP of sales leadership. And their thinking is, I’m going to communicate all of this data, all of this information that everyone has to understand. The problem is that they forget about what it’s like to be in the audience. And if somebody’s giving me a pile of information, I’m finally going to check out at some point during this whole thing, concentrate on three things, three points that you want to make an underline, give some information and some data, and a story around that. By the way, storytelling is the number one skill you want to have as a leader or in sales, it immediately does all of those things that we want to do, builds the connections, it builds trust, it shares that vulnerability incites people to release those chemicals, dopamine, oxytocin.

So many people don’t know how to tell a story. It’s not even funny. They think that if you’re the hero of the story, that’s a good story. It’s the worst story to tell from the audience’s perspective. Listen, I don’t want to hear about your goings on the hero, right? So there are ways of doing that. I would say the other thing, the other biggest issue that I see all the time, is, and this generally falls to the sales lead or the owner of the meeting, is that they also host the meeting. 

So listen, I also work as a professional host, I host meetings and emcee, awards, banquets in the evenings, and all of this stuff, I’ve done it on television, don’t be that person, you don’t have to be that person A if you’re the host of the meeting, and you’re delivering the main sales message, guess what, your status has been lowered, because now you’re also telling people, “okay, I think we’re going to leave this room, we’re gonna go to lunch, we’re gonna go do this.” be the star of the show, don’t be the host, be the star of the show who’s introduced and brought out to deliver this incredibly important message, and then exit to huge applause and bring in someone to host so that your message and your status isn’t diminished by having to do all of those extra duties. 

Also, it allows you time to connect with the people that you’re leading. People forget if you’re spending time in person, you’re there to spend time with them, not to be locked away in a rehearsal room. So that’s the big thing. That’s the big mistake I see a lot of companies make. And, it’s really to the detriment of their leadership, instead, get a pro, and it’s not just a plug for me, but it really is the idea of treating this as a special thing. So that when you come out, you shine, and then you walk off, and everybody wants some time with you, and you engender that sense of, you know, real leadership, as opposed to Julie McCoy from The Love Boat being the cruise director. That’s not your job.

Bob Woods  33:18

Yeah, yeah, exactly, but I think that a lot of mistakes come from that, you know, host equals star, and it’s not really like that, not at all. 

Jeff Rogers  33:30

No, it’s really not host equals supporter, host equals, you know, the person who holds you up so that you come out on a higher level, and that’s the level that you should be at, they have a lot of stage time, but when you think of The Tonight Show, or you think of the Colbert Show, you’re not thinking about them, you’re thinking about who they have on that night. And that’ll make the determination of whether or not you watch you’re not generally watching for the hosts of the show. Keep that in mind.

Bob Woods  33:56

Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. So, we all love and buy we all, I mean, me here, we all love the one thing that you can do right now takeaway is I mean, you know, it’s like, if you’re going to do nothing else, do this, and you will be a better person or better at what you do. So what’s the one thing that we can do today to really get into that playmaker mindset?

Jeff Rogers  34:22

Yeah, I think the first thing is to try and remember what it’s like to play. Remember that feeling. And if you need to do something right away, literally get off your phone and try and balance a pen on your finger for a minute. I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous. The point is I want to get you out of the mindset that you have right now. Go online and look for a riddle and try and answer it without looking up the answer. And then, by the way, if you have kids, ask your kids I guarantee they have a riddle and that they could ask you, and they will enjoy stomping you. 

The point is, I want to get you into that mindset so that you’re a little looser, you’ve lowered the stakes a little bit, and you’ve widened your perspective, immediately, you’re gonna have access to great ideas and your creativity and your idea of how to put different things together. If you’ve got a difficult client that you’ve been trying to get into, take a breather, take a break, get that playmaker mindset on, and they will all of a sudden come up with a couple of ideas, you know what I just remembered, they do a golf outing, or you know who I know over there, I haven’t even approached this person, you have the information and the idea and the solution, you just need to be able to access it, and in order to do that, you can’t be stressed, you got to be playing.

Bob Woods  35:37

Nice, very, very nice. I love that play. So if people want to learn more about you and your offerings, and you haven’t really gone into some of the other things that you do, either, we know you’re a funny guy. We know all about the Playmaker Mindset and that your host just kind of briefly tell me what else it is you do, and also where they can go and get a lot more information.

Jeff Rogers  36:02

Yeah, absolutely. So we, I say we, it’s the royal we know, I have a team that I work with, that we bring about workshops, keynote presentations, and we work with teams. To do really, we cover what we call the three C process;, create, collaborate, and communicate. So in creation, we’re talking about innovation, if you have a project, something along those lines, you want to do a design sprint, we can facilitate that and bring all of the creative juices out of your team or on a much larger level, try and do that with the entire organization create a culture of innovation.

For collaboration, it’s really about team bonding. You know, everybody talks about team building, don’t worry about that anymore. Worry about team bonding, right, you’ve already got the players, let’s get them closer together. So they don’t do the quiet quitting and leave your organization. That’s what collaboration is all about, the more they care about the people they work with, the less likely they are to leave where they’re working. So let’s create that environment for them where they feel that bond with each other.

And then the communication is about how to present, how to tell stories, how to really connect with people when you’re up on stage, or you just have a one-on-one with somebody. So we do all of those things. And you can find out more at jeffrogersunlimited.com, and that was, you know, one of the thinking behind the name of the company was there really are no limits when you’re being creative, and if you can tap into that creativity, you’re good to go. So that’s what we try to teach people to do.

Bob Woods  37:31

Excellent, fantastic! And we are good to go to. So I think we’re going to go, Jeff, thank you so much. Appreciate your time today. Fantastic conversation. Really, really love these things.

Jeff Rogers  37:46

Oh, thanks so much for having me on Bob. Appreciate it.

Bob Woods  37:48

Sure! And I want to thank you for streaming this episode of Making Sales Social. And remember, when you’re out and about this week, make sure to make your sales social. 

Outro 37:58

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