Episode 179: Colin Coggins & Garrett Brown – Redefining Sales for Entrepreneurs and Future Leaders

Colin Coggins  00:02

Social awareness is one of the most important characteristic traits of any great leader, any great seller. But when you think about the art of selling the ability to be able to be present enough to listen to someone and realize that you said something, and they didn’t hear it, you’re able to change your entire conversation to make sure that you can give them the gift of understanding your intent.

Intro  00:33

Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

Brynne Tillman  00:58

I am so darn excited today. I have recently met these two best-selling authors through so many people talking about their book, and I got it on audio and I knew immediately I needed to bring them on the show. Garrett Brown and Colin Coggins are author speakers and professors known for their entertaining and unexpected approach to selling that blurs the line between sales and life. 

They teach the popular class that created the sales mindset for entrepreneurs at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business. They are also co-founders of Agency 18, a firm that helps mission-driven companies adopt the unsold mindset, which is also the name of their book that they just published on February 21, 2023, “The Unsold Mindset.”

Challenges common misconceptions of successful salespeople so that we don’t have these misconceptions of them. We’re going to dive into that. Through interviewing many professionals, they discovered that the most successful salespeople were not necessarily confident and outgoing, and were pushy.

Instead, they were self-aware, socially aware, and unsold on what it means to sell. I devoured this book on audio, and it truly provides a new approach to not just selling but life by emphasizing mindset over tactics such as report building and objection handling. There is rarely a new thing under the sun. 

But the way that the unsold mindset challenges us just challenges us to adopt a new perspective on selling ourselves. And to understand the greatest salespeople are successful because of how they think, not just what they do. Welcome Colin and Garrett to making sales social.

Colin Coggins  02:49

Wow, that was an amazing introduction. 

Garett Brown  02:52

Amazing!

Colin Coggins  02:54

Can we take you with us everywhere we go?

Brynne Tillman  02:57

I can send you the tags. certainly can, you deserve it. You guys deserve it. I’m… I don’t get this excited a lot. I’m really, really excited about this. And I’m so excited to talk to you guys. But before we dive into your genius, we ask all of our guests, what does making sales social mean to you?

Colin Coggins  03:18

I’ll let Garrett go first. I see him smiling.

 Garrett Brown  03:21

Colin never let me go first. I’m so excited about it. I mean, What is more social than the act of selling? I mean, every interaction that we have with a human being is pretty much some kind of selling, Right? Whether we’re having a conversation and trying to get our point of view across whether we’re trying to convince our kid to eat his or her vegetables,

Whether we’re convincing our partner on what to have for dinner tonight, or whether we’re selling a product or service like there is nothing more social than an interaction with another human being, and trying to communicate and get them to buy into something that’s going to change their life for the better. So for me, that is what social selling means.

Brynne Tillman  03:59

That’s great. All right, Collin floor is yours.

Colin Coggins  04:02

Now I get to say I agree with Garrett. So that’s mine. And also social awareness is one of the most important characteristic traits of any great leader, any great seller. But when you think about the art of selling the ability to be able to be present enough to you know, listen to someone and realize that you said something, 

And they didn’t hear it and you’re able to change your entire conversation to make sure that you can give them the gift of understanding like your intent and when you talk to someone and you realize that they don’t think that you’re listening, they think you’re waiting to speak like these social cues. The element of being a social seller, to me, is the element of being a socially aware seller. And that’s the best seller in any room.

Brynne Tillman  04:55

Yeah, socially aware absolutely Foundation. Channel for what makes sales social. I love that. All right, I’m gonna dive into my very first question and it really is what is the origin of the unsold mindset? How did you guys come up with this?

Colin Coggins  05:13

Many margaritas and guacamole and,

Brynne Tillman  05:16

Shipping without salt?

Colin Coggins  05:19

Yeah, without software one of us. Got it? Yeah, Garrett and I, we have very different origin stories that got us to the place where we met. But, you know, the short story is that after we were together at this software security company, we created what we thought was a really foundational approach to selling and it would soon become this modality called “The Unsold Mindset.” 

But we didn’t really know it at first, you know, but it didn’t look like a curriculum and it did look like learning and development and you were looking at customer segmentation differently. And you were thinking about, you were thinking about how to sell, you weren’t thinking about the tactic of how to sell. 

And so when that company got acquired by Google, Garrett, and I said, like, we think we could probably do this, like at scale, like, why be limited to this and so we were trying to come up with what we were teaching, because we were guest lecturing at all these different universities and then ultimately, USC said, “Hey, like come here, like, make this a home and we got you know,”

We created sales mindset for entrepreneurs, which is the only sales mindset class and all of the higher education that we know of, it became really popular really fast. And we were like, Okay, how are we compartmentalizing this, if we think about what’s happening, a third of the class is showing up every single week, because they want to learn how to sell ideas, like they weren’t their future leaders, their future entrepreneurs, they might be future salespeople, but they want to make sure they can garner investment they want. 

They want to be able to capture, like the minds and hearts of people and then you had a third of the people that were showing up every day, because they wanted to learn how to sell themselves. So they were also future leaders and entrepreneurs, but also future salespeople. And they wanted to create an agency and people so that they would want to work for them, Right?

Like these are these building relationships and then the third of them wanted to sell products and services, the crazy bunch, as we call them, they were one of them, obviously. And you know, as we started seeing what was happening in the classroom, and it mirrored the consulting clients that we were talking to, we were like, they all have this in common. 

They are completely unsold on what it means to be a salesperson like these, like great people that like we were we were meeting these students that were interviewing these chefs that were changing the food landscape, these lawyers that were like changing like the trajectory of people’s lives, they were all redefining what it meant to sell to them,

And it was the exact opposite of what people thought a salesperson looked like or acted like or smelled like to be honest. So, I think the origin of the unsold was we found a pattern that the most successful people on the planet weren’t just the opposite of what people thought they were intentionally breaking rules about who society expected them to be.

Brynne Tillman  08:02

So, I just want to follow up on that and then I’ll go to Garrett. So, you believe it’s interesting, because when I went through this, I thought a lot of this was that people had an intuition that it wasn’t necessarily conscious that it wasn’t a decision. 

Colin Coggins  08:19

Yeah, you’re 100. That was the most fascinating part about it. They had no idea that they were saying the exact same thing, like General Stanley McCrystal, and like one of the top trial lawyers in, in corporate America, Right, like they said, almost the exact same thing. They’re like the SVP of like a startup in California said, 

Like, they were all talking about this concept of showing your work and at some point, they all talked about how they talk to themselves out loud, and in front of others, they didn’t know each other. And they didn’t even know that it was called showing your work. They were just talking about like these examples of why people were falling in love with them and why they were selling, and it was like, Oh, my God, he’s talking about showing his work.

He’s talking about showing his work. He’s talking about showing his work. None of them are showing up and saying, Hey, I’m self-aware enough to know that if I let people inside, and I show my thought process on the left side of the equal sign, then they’ll care more about the right side of the equal sign. That’s the opposite of what they’re doing. So, when we were telling them, hey, you know that Snoop Dog said the exact same thing that you just said, and you watch these geniuses have these epiphanies. They’re like, Oh, my God, that’s why I’m good. Or I never knew why this worked. You know?

Brynne Tillman  09:27

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. You gotta follow that.

Garrett Brown  09:31

I did while I’m laughing because one of Collins’s favorite words is pity. Isn’t that ironic? No, but there are a lot of things I want to add to that. But to your last point, Brynne, I just lost my train of thought. (Because you’re funny.) Oh, you talked about how you thought it was unconscious versus something conscious.

And that’s exactly right. Like it was subconscious. It wasn’t something that they were doing intentionally, and we started to see Our job as okay, how do we teach people to actually be able to go and intentionally get not to intentionally do these things, but to get in the mindset where they’re doing them authentically that it’s interesting that you picked up on that. And that’s exactly what our job was as far as the origin of unsold. 

Collins, making it sound like it was more planned than it was like Collins and I both came from these different nonsales mindsets and backgrounds and we sort of had the same approach. And as we got to the point where he mentioned that we said, Okay, how do we scale this? We hadn’t called it unsold at that point yet, like, we didn’t really have a definition for it, we just knew that there was this set of things that we believed that we knew worked, because we had done it for our entire careers.

And we just sold the company to Google and so we kind of like had this, this anecdotal evidence that it worked. But when we went out and then started to try to talk to people and codify it and figure out, okay, how do we define it and teach people how to do it themselves. That’s when we realized that all of these people that we were talking to were unsold on how things were supposed to be like, they were unsold on how they were supposed to sound,

How they were supposed to act, what they were supposed to do. And that’s when we gave it the label. And then once you label something, as many personal development gurus will tell you, once you label it, then it becomes easy to like, deal with it and so then we couldn’t unsee things, and that’s when we started to really get the buckets that turned into the chapters of the book.

Colin Coggins  11:16

I just said that, just more pithier than you.

Brynne Tillman  11:20

I like the word pissy, too. Although as a salesperson, I’m rarely pitied. (We try) I try to be more of a listener than a talker. But sometimes it just seeps in, you know, you mentioned, you actually kind of dropped a little bit of this already. But you mentioned even on the cover of the book that the best sellers have the opposite of what we think they are, who they think they are. So, this is sort of a three-part question. What do we think? Why do we think it? And what’s the truth?

Colin Coggins  11:53

Very good questions when we kick off any keynote, doesn’t matter if there’s hundreds of people or 1000s of people, we kick it off with two questions. The first question is, what do you think of when you hear the word salesperson? And they’re really horrible words, you know, yucky, manipulative, smarmy, pushy. 

The second question we ask is, who do you think of when you think of the greatest salesperson on the planet dead or alive? And now the 1000s of people? The top two answers for that question is Steve Jobs and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and daughters and sons are a close third. And Jesus, believe it or not, is like a, it’s like, almost a tie for third, sometimes fourth. Like these are the Top four answers that you get.

Brynne Tillman  12:37

Do you jobs over Jesus, that’s a little scary.

Colin Coggins  12:40

Think about I mean, think about the incongruence. Think about someone that just said that when they hear the word salesperson, they think yucky. And then when we asked you who the greatest salesperson is, you know, you talk about your daughter or Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. There was this huge congruence. So, what do people think sales is? We know what that is. But why we wrote this book was because that incongruence was completely fascinating to us. How was that possible?

Garrett Brown  13:09

That like then to this to the second part of your question, why that’s pretty easy to answer, especially at for people who have been in a sales career long enough, you know, that there are a lot of people doing things the wrong way, that give it that make it harder for the people doing it the right way. 

And whether that’s literally lying or manipulating all the way down to just like, you know, spray and pray and I’m gonna send 20,000 emails out and I don’t care if they’re qualified or not, like all of these little things, and big things combined make it really tough. And then there’s their society to like, if you look at movies, what depictions of salespeople do we see in movies. 

It’s, you know, greed is good or always being closing coffee’s for closers. You know, it’s it’s always, and it’s been that way for forever. So, people can’t be blamed for having this, this preconceived notion of what a salesperson is, and for being wrong about it, but that’s where it comes from.

Colin Coggins  14:04

We found it interesting that to answer this question, maybe being a little differently is we found that everyone was selling like themselves or an idea. Regardless if they thought it was a yucky word or not, didn’t matter, like how they reframe it, like everyone is selling an idea or themselves or a product or service. 

So, when you think about the parts of people’s lives, when they decide to show up and act like another persona of themselves, like when they decide during the job interview, you know what, I’m going to act like the best version of myself, Right? Like, I’m going to act like the person that they expect me to be, that person is completely different from who they hope they are. 

Do you know what I mean? It’s like these, these people. When you think about when people decide to act like someone they’re not, it’s typically when they’re in a selling situation, even if they don’t realize that that’s what’s happening. That’s the minute that you’re like, Oh, I’m going to teach my kid I’m going to sell Um, I cannot eat his veggies. 

What would a dad look like? who’s really good at selling a kid on beans, veggies, okay, I’m gonna come in and I’m gonna, I’m gonna be the cool that just that hypothetic what I did, right? I thought brought ranch out I was that guy. But I don’t normally, you know, to ranch with broccoli. So, it’s like these things like that, like, I’m acting like someone I’m not, you know, trying to prove this point when what we realize is the greatest sellers on the planet are really good at being imperfect. 

Like they’re really good at making sure that the person on the other end of this sale knows we are very similar. I’m imperfect, just like you. I am very raw just like you. I’m trying to figure it out just like you. And most of us for some strange reason, when we get into selling situations, we try to act like we are perfect when people hate perfect people.

Brynne Tillman  15:43

Yeah, it feels arrogant. Often, we don’t realize it. 

Colin Coggins  15:47

Yeah, No one wants to be the smartest person in the room. That’s what we found in that book. The smartest people in the room are intentionally trying not to be the smartest people in the room. They’re like creating infrastructures to be a lifelong learner, because they know how easy it is to be an hour. 

Brynne Tillman  16:01

Wow. which really makes them the smartest people in the room. But that’s beside the point. But I love that. So, tell me a little bit about the truth, Right? What does a really successful seller look like?

Garrett Brown  16:18

A really successful seller moves differently than somebody who is seeing dollar signs on the other end of the table or the other end of the phone, if you are calling somebody because they’re the 25th name on a list of 50 people that you have to call that day, that’s not going to sound the same as having a conversation with somebody that you genuinely care about helping or wanting to learn more about, 

You know, you’re going to ask different questions. If you care differently, you’re going to listen more closely. If you care differently, you’re going to you know, go out of your way to try to find ways to be valuable, instead of just thinking about them as a math problem and saying how can I add enough value to make sure that they give me money in exchange, right, you’re trying to genuinely be valuable. And that’s a really big, it’s a really small mindset shift, actually, but it has big results. And it’s not always easy for people until they see it.

Brynne Tillman  17:07

So, I love that one of the phrases we use often in our training is detached from what the prospect is worth to you, and attached to what you are worth to the prospect.  

Colin Coggins  17:20

I love that more. That’s great. We see it in grades, we see it, we call it different things like you read it or listen to it in the pathological optimism chapter and these people, they were pathologically optimistic, because they needed to get to a place where they could have a conversation with someone without needing something from them. 

You know, it’s like, you know, know what it feels like to have a conversation with someone where you don’t need anything from them like that. That’s where there’s a ton of love, a ton of value, a ton of respect that there’s real vibes. But you know, you can’t really do that. Unless you think that there’s not really much to lose, you know, like, if you thought this person was going to buy, like, 

Listen, this person is gonna buy like, I have the person, I’m gonna change this person’s life with his product he’s gonna buy. Let’s put that aside for a second. Let me talk to you now as if you already bought, let me be honest with you, are you real with you? Let me know. I’m not saying that everyone did it. I’m saying that the result of pathological optimism is a conversation that feels like there are two equal parts. And it’s not one person extracting more value than the other.

Brynne Tillman  18:21

There’s not an agenda beyond I want to learn and help.  

Colin Coggins  18:25

No, I mean, Garrett said, I said it really well. Yeah. What does a great salesperson look like? Like, do they move differently? They move differently, because they care differently. Like everyone knows, salespeople ask better questions than most. 

But the quest that book has been written, the question is, why are they asking better questions? Like they’re not asking questions. They know the answers that other people don’t. They’re asking questions. They don’t know the answers that they really want to know that most people don’t care about.

Brynne Tillman  18:50

Yeah, you know, I’ve been in sales for a very, very long time and I started off in kind of the 70s they’re still around, but the 70s sales training, where it was really manipulation and, and it just was what everybody was doing. And part of that was they would say, Never give away free consultation. You know, there was no internet.

Colin Coggins  19:16

Access for information. Yeah, that’s actually Yeah.

Brynne Tillman  19:20

Yeah. And so now they’re still teaching that right. They’re still teaching, don’t give it away. And there’s a wonderful TED talk that you should listen to. Just wonderful Michael porte wrote a book called “Book Yourself Solid” and I’m going to get close to the quote, “Give away so much value that you’re afraid you gave too much and then give more and that changed my life.” Like, I don’t have to be tight with my resources and who I am. And it didn’t feel right. I want to give it away. Yeah.

Garrett Brown  19:57

Yeah, you’re talking about the 120 rule that changed his life. David Meltzer Yeah, where he said he made sure that for every $20 that he value that he extracted from somebody he made sure he was giving $100 of value in return. The only challenge with that is and the thing I’ll add, and he would, he would agree with this, as well as you’re, they’re not thinking about this as a math problem. 

They’re just, they’re in a mindset where they’re doing that naturally, you know, and that’s, you talk about old sales trainings, and the challenge and the trouble with some of those, you know, they, they used to teach us even at the even at the beginning of our careers, they were teaching you mirroring, and they were saying, you know, if you mirror the body language of the person that you’re talking right there, you’re gonna, they’re gonna feel more connected to you. 

But if you go back in time, and you look at the science, what probably happened was many, many, many years ago, somebody was studying a great salesperson, and they realized that they were mirroring their customer. And so they wrote down in their notepad or their book, they said, okay, great salespeople, near their customers. 

But if you look at the science, what’s actually happening is that we as human beings, are naturally mere people when we have a deep connection with them naturally not because we’re pretending and because we’re looking. 

So, what happens is now you got generations of salespeople that are thinking about where their left arm goes, and are their legs crossed? And should their head be tilted a certain way, when in reality, what they shouldn’t be worrying about is how do you build a deep enough connection, 

So, that you’re just naturally mirroring someone because that’s what humans physiologically do, as opposed to trying to just think about if you’re thinking about somebody’s arm, you’re not paying attention, you’re not listening, you’re not asking the right questions. So you know, it’s just another example of sales training and it’s always going to be evolving, but they’ve been teaching us wrong for a while.

Brynne Tillman  21:35

What else do you think is broken in that traditional sales training? What else comes to mind?

Colin Coggins  21:40

I want to say, because I know that they’re real sales professionals out there, this book was written out of crazy empathy that, you know, like we were not like, from as a lifelong sales professional, maybe I didn’t want to be one at first, Right. But for someone who’s done it for a really long time, we wrote this book, not from like a soapbox, but from realizing that it is the toughest sport in business. Like it’s, it’s why we care so much about it, Right? 

Because, like, of the burnout, and the rates of depression, and the rates of anxiety and the alcoholism that’s attached to this beautiful, like, sparks that has given us so much, Right? And so when Garrett says that they’ve been teaching us wrong, we know that like these tactics were like, we’re aware now you know what I mean? 

Like, of how they make us feel and we are choosing now probably as a generation to, like, not do that. But I think back in the day, to your point, Right? Like when you were getting taught something and you didn’t know any differently, what ended up happening was people at some point started genuinely caring about the people that they were talking to. And then those same dirty manipulative tactics were actually like these beautiful extensions of themselves. 

And at some point, you realize that like even the dirtiest of tricks that could potentially be served as like a genuine authentic expression of oneself like mirroring, for example, you know, so who knows if the originator of the mirror was like, Yo, just fake it. All we know is a bunch of salespeople. were faking it. Like that’s what we knew for sure. But yes, So anyways, 

I want to say that because the Everly we stay up for I guess, and he was like about the bar, like Garrett, I can stay at the bar for hours and just talk about the lifecycle of like a script, like, you know, when you see like a really good script, that’s because someone broke the rules, and they broke the old script. 

You know what I mean? Like, there are these like, right, so it’s all you know, like, would there be Kobe without Jordan? Would there be Jay Z without rock hair? These sorts of conversations and sales really get us excited? That was a tangent. That was a bonafide sorry. A good one. I’m sorry. Anyway, so the answer to your question, are there other tactics? Yes, I think I think one of the main ones is the, the usage of other people’s names like, Yeah,

Brynne Tillman  23:54

You think it’s really great to talk with me, Colin? It’s been fabulous today.  

Colin Coggins  23:58

Repetition? Yeah, it’s, it’s the same story, as you know, it’s and look, we all read the Dale Carnegie book, like he wasn’t lying. Like he said, The sweetest day and it is like some you know what, that’s probably true. That still doesn’t mean that it gives other people permission to weaponize that because the point would be why do you care so much that you remember this person’s name? 

Like, what is it that’s so special about this person that you want them to know? Like, I’m talking to you I hear you versus I want you to know that I know your name so that I will ingratiate myself, you know, closer to the sale. So things like that. Also, the handshake over the top handshake is a rough one for us. Oh, hey, like that just coming over the top like in asserting dominance.

Brynne Tillman  24:41

I had one of those last week and I still feel it.

Colin Coggins  24:44

Yeah. We will say no to people that are right. Yeah. Don’t do it.

Brynne Tillman  24:49

That’s fine. So one of the things we talked about a lot with the name right, and we talked about it in messaging, you know, like automation sticks the name five times so they think it’s not automated, like It makes me nod. Right? But this is the saying that you know, there’s nothing sweeter than here hearing your own name. Well, if you have too much cheesecake, it no doubt no longer tastes good. Like that. All sweet go in.

Colin Coggins  25:14

Everything. We’re our people.

Garrett Brown  25:17

Even worse than that is if you’re just thinking about inserting their name, you can’t possibly be paying close enough attention to build a real connection. And that, you know, a lot of times you’ll see on Twitter or on social media, you’ll see that, you know, a salesperson should listen 80% of the time and talk 20% of the time. Probably true. But, if you’re sitting there doing math on how long you’ve been talking versus listening, you’re not missing the point.

Brynne Tillman  25:41

You’re just quiet. 80%

Garrett Brown  25:43

Exactly.

Colin Coggins  25:45

SDR reached out to me. I told you this story. I had an SDR reach out to me. And I typically don’t pick up phone calls. But now I’m really interested. Like, anytime I have a moment I will do it just to see, like, what are they going to do? And ever since we started teaching, I answered the phone. And she goes, Hey, is this call? And I go Yeah, I say yes. 

Which gave her permission to talk for three minutes and 13 seconds straight now. I stayed on. And when she was done, she said it was like two minutes and 50 seconds. She pauses and she goes, What do you think? And I said something like, wow, I think I said, Wow, I think I said wow! because we didn’t talk that long. And then she talked to another until 313 and so I asked her, I said, Are you good at your job? And she said yeah, I said no, like for real? Like I’m in sales. 

Like are you on the top of the leaderboard? Are you good at your job? And she was really proud. She was like, Yes. And I was like, You know what, I was gonna give you advice, do you have a very hard job being an SDR is a thankless job. And even though there’s no way I would ever teach anybody to talk for three minutes and 13 seconds, like you are doing really hard work. And if you love it, and it’s important, like maybe it’s important work, and I wasn’t going to sit there and judge it, you know. So like, it’s really,

Brynne Tillman  26:59

I love that. Yeah,

Colin Coggins  27:00

It’s hard.

Brynne Tillman  27:04

It isn’t I you know, I teach how to never have to cold call again. That’s a big piece of what I teach. But I have bought from cold callers. So, I’m not saying that it doesn’t work. I’m just saying most people hate it.

Colin Coggins  27:17

You know what it is? It’s and we don’t have time for it. But I wouldn’t like because the prolonged gratification like that the idea of just earning the right to be on that call, like is really cool. And some people like they’re masters at it, they’re like, look like let me just tell you why I’m calling and then you can tell me if I should hang up like those people,

Like they immediately have shown these people Oh, this is a real one. I’ll give them 10 seconds before I hang up on what you do for that 10 seconds. But like the mindset behind earning the right to be on the phone versus trying to book an appointment. It could be masterful in the right hands. You know.

Brynne Tillman  27:50

I love that. So, and I also love how you’re saying they’re not, we’re not throwing things out. We’re just saying, use them authentically. Yeah. If they happen to fit into the moment and the situation, then it’s appropriate. But don’t squeeze it in there because it’s on the agenda. Or you know that someone’s listening to your call and you know, did she say that? Did he do that?

Colin Coggins  28:14

It’s offensive! It’s offensive. Like we know you’re doing it. It’s offensive. And if you don’t think that we know you’re doing it, then you lack social awareness, which is what you talked about in the beginning. 

Brynne Tillman  28:24

Well, you guys did what I loved. Yeah. I love it. Two more questions. And then we’ll bring this in for landing. How is the unsold mindset redefining what it means to sell.

Garrett Brown  28:39

Historically and especially with new salespeople, but a lot of experienced salespeople as well. Selling is all about the transaction. Right? It’s all about and it’s all about these are the tactics that I use. This is my sales cycle. This is what selling is. And what Colin and I realized very early on, and the reason that we wrote the book is because it’s not about what salespeople do. 

It’s not about what salespeople say, it’s about what salespeople think, the reason that everybody can listen to this podcast, or any other sales podcast, or they can read our book or any other sales book and the reason some people will go out into the world, probably around 20% will go out into the world and they’ll thrive while the other 80% are trying to figure it out, is because of that mindset. 

So, we’re trying to redefine that. So, that it’s not just about the tactics and as you said in your introduction, it’s not about how do I overcome objections and how do I go in for the clothes and it’s about how you think, and then you can take all of that other stuff, make it your own authentically, and go out there and help people. I love that.

Brynne Tillman  29:42

I do too. And you know, what I hear and correct me if I’m wrong, is if a company hires you to come in and train you’re not teaching a methodology. You’re not teaching them, you know, these are the… this is the process and you’re closing for this and you’re teaching them that whatever you’re doing Let’s do it authentically.

Garrett Brown  30:02

That is the high level of just a bit for sure. And listen, we love, we think sales training is important. And you know, as you’re starting out, It’s you take that training, if somebody’s offering you traditional sales, training, training, take it just know that the box that you think you’re supposed to fit into, you don’t have to fit into use it your way.

Brynne Tillman  30:19

I think that’s the game-changer, right? That’s why I believe that this is new, Right? Every company, we are a Miller Heiman selling company. We are a Sandler selling company. And you know, every human being is different and when you put them all into a box, sure some will come to the top because that happened to be authentic, or it worked for them. But you know, the 80-20 success rarely 20% of your sales reps do 80% of the business, Right? That it may simply be because 80% of the people are putting in the box that doesn’t work for them.

Colin Coggins  30:56

Yeah, we’re training agnostic because of it. Like that’s, that’s what the book was about. You know, it was like, hey, like, you don’t have to read a book on handling objections, like it doesn’t matter. Like and then read the book that will tell you like, why you actually want to ask them questions that you actually want the answers to. Those are two different books. 

I just want to say your question was really good. Sorry, the redefining no one’s ever asked us that. I just want to give you love for that. Like, like, people don’t realize that’s what’s happening. Like when mothers that have to day jobs, and then come home and have like, we’re hearing from people that are under the craziest, 

Like the amount of pressure that is reading this book, and redefining what selling means to them so that they can show up more authentically and stop acting like the person that people expect them to be like, that’s the most important part of the book. And a lot of people aren’t asking that question. So, thank you for that.

Brynne Tillman  31:51

Oh, I have chills, I love where you guys are coming from. It just fits into the core of my belief system, you have articulated what I feel.

Colin Coggins  32:05

We share your belief system, we had a PR person say I have never been more proud than selling the NFL on the diversity and equity $250 million plan that they helped create and foster actually use the word sell. Like, I’ve never been more proud to sell like, because she has redefined what it means to sow to include diversity and inclusion and that’s really important to her.

Brynne Tillman  32:32

Yeah. And I think I mean, not to throw in Simon Sinek all the time I do but that why, like you if you have your Why am I selling this? What is the impact I want to make? Right? I mean, I think that just wraps it all up. So my last question, even though I could do this forever and ever and ever because in heaven, what questions should I have asked that they didn’t? 

Colin Coggins  32:58

Are we friends in real life? 

Brynne Tillman  33:00

Are you friends in real life Colin and Garrett? Your name did that feel authentic?

Colin Coggins  33:05

I mean, we are, I always say that because that’s the real special sauce. You know, Garrett and I are very different and that’s why our friendship is very real, and why our partnership works. Because you can run a business with someone if you’re used to arguing, you know, you can run a business with someone and look at feedback as a gift. 

If you know that that person likes you back. Like when they say something hurtful, like they’re not doing intentionally, they’re doing it because they want you to be better. So, you know, our friendship, our relationship as I’ve real best friends in real life, I think is really what has made all this work. So, that’s a great question. Thank you for asking. 

Brynne Tillman  33:44

Well, I love that answer. And I’m glad that you’re really friends. I think that’s fantastic, 

Garrett Brown  33:49

Best of what our job is to create together to teach together to travel around and share this stuff that we are passionate about together and so every once in a while, you know, we started out the book talking about that special place where what you know, what you would do where you’re getting paid for what you would do for free and the mindset that comes with that and, and we’re lucky enough to spend most of our days getting paid for things that that we just love doing and we get to do it together. So, it’s a lot of fun.

Brynne Tillman  34:16

That’s a successful life. I love that. Well, congratulations on your great success with the book and your training. To all of our listeners, please go buy the book. If you are an audio reader. It’s great on audio. It’s not a reader and audio learner. It’s on hardcover, it’s on Kindle, go to Amazon right now and get ”The Unsold Mindset”. Thank you. Thank you beyond Thank you, the value that you’ve brought is just unbelievable. So, everyone when you are out and about don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro  34:59

Thanks! You’re listening and join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales, training and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Don’t forget to subscribe to get the latest episodes from the making sales social podcast, leave a review down below. Tell us what you think, what you learned and what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com For more information.

Resources Mentioned:

The Unsold Mindset