Episode 195: Stephen M.R. Covey – Building Relationships of Trust: The Key to Successful Sales and Leadership in a Changing World

Stephen M.R Covey  00:02

When you build trust with people, they interpret you differently. They experience you differently when you say something is cost more and is worth it. They believe you because they trust you, because you built that trust, you’ve earned that trust, and so relationships of trust is a great outcome that we always want, but also when we build the relationships with these, it’s how it leads to the sale. So we’re kind of in both directions.

Intro  00:29

Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show!

Brynne Tillman  00:54

Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I am here with Stephen M.R. Covey, who is a New York Times and number one Wall Street Journal Best-Selling Author of The Speed of Trust, which has sold over 2 million copies worldwide. He’s also the author of the newly released Wall Street Journal bestseller Trust and Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others which just warms my heart. 

I love this. In his new book, Stephen is offering a transformative approach to the kind of leadership we need to move toward today. He is calling it “Trust and Inspire,” [and it] explores the importance of trust in building strong and successful relationships, both personally and professionally. 

This amazing book emphasizes the need for individuals to cultivate trust. By being authentic, reliable, and empathetic in their interactions with others, the future of work and leadership is moving from command and control to Trust and Inspire. And this book is about how to do it. On a personal note, I am a huge fan of Stephen’s work. I am blown away at the transformations he is leading in this quickly growing culture-driven workplace. Welcome to the show, Stephen.

Stephen M.R Covey  02:21

Wow! What a wonderful introduction, Brynne. Thank you. I’m glad to be with you.

Brynne Tillman  02:25

Fun putting it together. It’s awesome. You’re amazing, and I’m such a fan. I hear people say all over the place, “There’s nothing new under the sun.” This is new! This is brand new. This is a new way of thinking, and it’s so exciting because it really feels right, and I love that. But before I dive into all the exciting things, we ask all of our guests one question, which is, well, one first question, just what does making sales social mean to you?

Stephen M.R Covey  03:05

What it means to me, Brynne, is building and developing high-trust relationships. Partnerships, because when you build trust, I think you can differentiate it in sales on the basis of trust. And because when you build trust with people, they interpret you differently, they experience you differently. When you say something, it costs more and is worth it, they believe you, because they trust you because you built that trust, you’ve earned that trust. 

And so, relationships of trust is a great outcome that we always want. But also, when we build the relationships of trust, it’s how it leads to the sale. So it works in both directions. And I like to say that in sales, we’re always trying to do two things. Yes, we’d love to get the business to win the deal, to make the sale, whatever might call it. 

But we also want to build a relationship of trust because you can make a sale but not have a relationship of trust, and then suddenly, there are issues or things pop up, and people go back to the contract instead of having a conversation. And having a dialogue and saying, “Look, we’re going to do the right thing because we trust each other.” 

And so there’s just different in kind. When you have a relationship with trust versus when we have a contract, and that’s what you default to is different in kind. So the quality of the sale is higher when there’s a relationship of trust. And so Making Sales Social is saying, “Let’s use all the tools we have,” digital tools, other tools of building relationships of trust because of who we are, how we work with people, the value we create for them seeking their interest, and we use the tools we have to build those relationships. Because the higher the trust relationships, then the better everyone is of everyone. It’s win-win. And that’s what making [sales] social means to me – it’s building relationships of trust.

Brynne Tillman  05:18

Oh, I love that. And we talk a lot about building trust-based relationships. So I think that that’s, it’s just fabulous. I love this. Okay, now we’re going to jump into trust and inspire with, by the way, for the audience, I have a signed copy. So I’m absolutely thrilled. But I have been consuming this on Audible for probably six or eight weeks. 

And I keep going back to some things and I’m thinking, “Why am I doing this?” And “How can I change?” And I really, it’s like reframing the way that we engage with other people. So let’s start with the question of what inspired you to research this topic. And that’s a big deal. This is not hey, I just thought of an idea and wrote about it. You did some deep research and write, which is now this best-selling book.

Stephen M.R Covey  06:21

Yes. And by the way, Brynne, I listen to books on audible first, too, that’s how I always start with that, to me, listening is a great way. And then if I liked the book, I buy the hard copy after listening to it for the first time on Audible. So I learned the same way. Let me tell you what inspired this. I’ll never forget that my father was Dr. Stephen R. Covey. He wrote The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Before he passed away, I had the thrill of doing some workshops with him and you know, seminars and around the world. And you know, he takes about three-fourths the time it takes about a fourth.

And he started off asking this question, he asked the audiences, and these audiences would be, you know, maybe 1000 people in the room, from government, business, education, health care, you know, every walk of life, all levels, etc. And it asks, “How many of you believe that the vast majority of your workforce has more creativity, more ingenuity, more potential, more talent, than their current job, requires or even allows them to contribute?” And almost every hand would go up? 

You know, there’s a lot more potential inside of people that we’re not unleashing getting out? And then the second question would be, how many of you are under tremendous pressure today, to produce more, with less, and again, almost every hand would go up. And it was kind of like, just look at that juxtaposition. Here we are, under this relentless pressure to produce more and get more done. 

And yet, we’re hardly tapping into the creativity, the talent, the capacity of our people, we’re leaving so much on the table, there’s not being tapped into. And to me it was kind of like, What is wrong with this picture? What is wrong with our leadership, they were not unleashing the potential of greatness inside of people. And that was when I started thinking about this idea that the way that we’re leading is not getting out what it could, is not, is less and less relevant to a changing world. 

And then I saw the world changing in front of our eyes with disruption of, you know, technology changes and, and the workplace changing, you know, through covid, I work from home work from anywhere remote, hybrid, intentionally flexible work, and the worst, the workforce changing was so much diversity and, and as many as five generations at work. And these younger generations, you know, Gen Z, millennials, the Alfa generation coming up with completely different expectations, how they want to be engaged. 

And the whole idea was, the way we’ve been leading the past is not going to work in this new world of work. We’ve got to shift the way we’re leading, the world has changed, but our style of leadership has not kept pace, and we need to get ahead of the curve. Most of us are certainly many of us, but I believe the data shows most of us are still kind of operating in the old model. You mentioned command and control. 

We become better at it. We’re a kinder, gentler version of it, more advanced, more sophisticated, I call it an enlightened command and control. But we haven’t really shifted into a more accurate, complete paradigm of people in the leadership that I call, “Trust and Inspire”. And I began to realize that the style of leadership that brought us to where we are today is not the style that’s needed to go forward tomorrow. 

We need a new way to lead in a new world. And I’m calling it “Trust and Inspire”. That was the idea. And then researching on why we need this kind of move, and how we make this kind of shift was the whole premise for writing the book.

Brynne Tillman  10:09

Yeah, I love that. And I have to say, because I’m always when I’m listening, I’m always thinking, like, Where does this go? Right? And this nicer, kinder command and control, to me, is almost the definition of gaslighting. Yeah. Right? Like, to me, it’s like, you know, I’m going to make you feel bad, because I said this to you really nicely. So you’re going to feel guilty that you feel bad about this, because you shouldn’t, but you do and why? And so to me, command and control is really like gaslighting in the workplace. So that.

Stephen M.R Covey  10:48

I love that insight, I really do. It makes complete sense to me, we’re still operating with a flawed paradigm of how we view people, how we view organizations, it’s still more transactional. And it’s still more around just motivation, not inspiration. You know, people want to be inspired and more transactional, I, you know, what can you do for me and I for you, versus what we can do with each other on the basis of partnership and collaboration, and, you know, the best sales is done that way, is where it is truly, truly mutual benefit.

Truly Win Win, truly, you know, what, how we work together as partners, and we bring these values and we add this value, and you know, versus the, the guessing and the, the withholding information and having people try to, you know, guess and reach there versus being open and transparent and extending trust and building that kind of relationship, and trying to help clients succeed, by adding value. 

And in the process, we succeed too. So you know, that’s, that’s, that’s working with people that’s trust and inspire. But still, so much a leadership of sales of life is we’re still kind of trapped in the old model. And maybe, maybe we’re, we have a better version of it, which I prefer over the authoritarian command and control that is leaving so much value on the table. And that’s going to become less and less relevant by the day as we go forward. In you know, in the New World, with new generations.

Brynne Tillman  12:28

Yeah, I’d even say, “Do you have the authoritarian command and control that was at least transparent?”

Stephen M.R Covey  12:38

Like this, you’re up front about it? 

Brynne Tillman  12:39

Yeah, I actually, weirdly, am more comfortable with the authoritarian side of things than “Hey, I’m trying to trick you”, and make you think that I care about you. But it’s really about what I need. And that, to me, is what command and control is. It is what I need, what I want you to do for me, so I am loving this. So in what ways does a Trust and Inspire approach enhance employee engagement and motivation compared to a more traditional command and control approach?

Stephen M.R Covey  13:19

Yeah, it’s just profoundly different. You can think about it because this, I’m glad you’re asking this, because this is one of the biggest opportunities and challenges organizations are facing today. It’s winning that war for talent, attracting the best people, retaining them, so they stay with you, engaging them. And then I’m gonna say even inspiring them. And, because there’s even something beyond engagement, and that’s inspiration, is the next frontier of engagement. And now, to get the inspiration, you need to go through engagement. 

So all of our engagement efforts are still good. But we can even go beyond that and inspiration, where there’s another level of contribution and greater well-being of our people that comes from it. And here’s the idea is that the way that we’re going to win the war for talent, and attract, retain, engage and inspire the best people is to bring out the best in people and to build a high-trust culture. 

That inspires because you build a high trust culture, that’s a talent magnet. If you also build, you inspire people through your leadership that unleashes their potential, their greatness, and when people are their best selves, and you bring out the best in people, they want to be a part of that. They feel, you know, they’re drawn to that. 

People today don’t want to be managed. People want to be led. They want to be trusted. They want to be inspired, and you can’t At command and control your way to a high-trust culture that inspires, it just doesn’t work. 

Brynne Tillman  15:07

Macare culture.

Stephen M.R Covey  15:08

Yeah, that’s based on fear, and at best on a kind of transactional exchange, but it feels transactional. And that doesn’t inspire, you can’t command and control your way. It’s the kind of collaboration and partnering and ultimately innovation that we need today to stay relevant, it doesn’t work very well, when people feel like there’s those is dictated it’s top down, hierarchical, what have you, it’s I focused, not we and it’s, it’s doing something to someone or for someone not with someone, kinetic control is not going to produce the kind of outcomes that we need today to stay relevant, which is we got to keep our people and bring out the best in them.

Because we’re leaving too much talent that’s not being tapped into and utilized. And we’re losing too much talent, and we need to collaborate and innovate. So we stay relevant when the world is shifting so fast around us, command and control won’t get you there, we need a new way to lead in this new world. And that’s Trust and Inspire because it absolutely is beautifully aligned to bring out the best in people. And to grow people. 

The whole idea is you get results in a way that grows people whereas command and control is you get results using people there are means to an end tres inspired get results in a way that grows people two ends result, yes, but also the growth of the people. And you know, you manage things, but you lead people. 

So we need good management of things of systems of structures of processes of the numbers of the sales process of the business, we manage things, but we lead people but so many of us have gotten so good at management that we start to manage people as if they were things and as soon as we started to do that, we’re going to end up with no people and a lot of things. 

So, managing things leads people it’s not either or it’s but the context matters. Whereas trust is command and control is kind of I manage people in things now manage things lead people different in kind efficient with things effective with people, motivation, works on command can command and control is heavy carrot and stick and you know, extrinsic motivation, trust inspire works on intrinsic inspiration is inside of people you light the fire within that fire, when lit can light a whole lot of other fires. 

And it can burn on for months, if not years. Whereas with motivation that constantly provides more external stimuli, more carrots, more sticks to get it, whereas aspiration is inside that maybe you’re tapping into it. That’s the contrast. The difference is what we need today.

Brynne Tillman  17:42

Yeah, I love that. And you know, the carrot, and the stick is I’m not doing this job because I love it. I’m doing this job because I love carrots. That’s right. Right. And, and so I think it’s such a brilliant approach that the folks are going to love their job if they are inspired and enabled, right to do what they do best. 

Stephen M.R Covey  18:09

So are enabled, trusted, and also that they’re recognized for who they are as a whole person, you know, they’re a body, a heart and the mind and spirit. When is motivation only cared. Secondly, it’s saying they’re compartmentalized, they’re just, they’re just a body. So pay them they are, you know, I got against pay, we all want to be paid fairly competitively. 

But we have so much more we also have a heart to want to connect, want to belong. We want caring, want love, we have a mind. We want to contribute and develop and grow. McKinsey study shows the number one reason why people leave because they’re not growing. And then we have a spirit, we want to matter, we want to make a difference. 

We want to leave a legacy, we want to have significance. And so we’re a whole person’s let’s tap into that through inspiration that includes some motivation for the body. But it’s so much more than just a carrot and stick approach only that command and control has to exemplify. So this is how we’re going to win the war for talent is how we’re going to collaborate and innovate to stay relevant. But it’s also greater wellbeing, energy and joy is just a happier and more exciting way to lead.

Brynne Tillman  19:18

Absolutely. It feels good when the people around you feel good.

Stephen M.R Covey  19:21

It does. Yeah. And they feel good.

Brynne Tillman  19:25

Right? And then yeah, I think that’s amazing. I love this. So you know as this is clearly the pathway to the future, especially if we want to stay competitive, keep our clients and our employees, what are some of the common pitfalls and challenges that you’re seeing leaders face when they’re like “Okay, I get we need to do Trust and Inspire”. But you know what, I read the book. I have my people read the book and then we go and try it and I still have some pitfalls. What are you seeing that happen?

Stephen M.R Covey  20:00

It’s yeah, there are pitfalls that are very real, because we’re all on the journey. And we know we need to do this, but it’s kind of still hard to do it. To know and not to do is not to know. So we’ve got to get there. And so, here’s some of the common ones identified, what I call five common barriers to becoming trust and inspire leaders. 

And the first one is kind of this idea that won’t work here, “I like the idea is really good, but you don’t know my boss”. It’s never gonna work here, this culture, or you don’t know our industry, we’re a very command and control industry, you know it, or you don’t know my company or this or that it’s very easy to kind of think that I like this idea. 

But it’s not going to work here. And we got to kind of confront that head on, you know, with the idea of you first becoming a model who then can become a mentor. So you work right within your circle of influence. And you rippled out from there, first model, then mentor, so it can work anywhere, because it may not work for the whole company, but it could work for your team and for your direct reports. And for your home in your community. By going inside our model it goes first. That’s maybe a big one.

Brynne Tillman  21:07

That’s it. I mean, that’s the magic, do it. And it’s like Parenting, Right? like your kids do what they see you do not what you tell them?

Stephen M.R Covey  21:16

Yep. Inevitably. And I’ve learned that the hard way. You know, we’re always modeling. The question is, what are we modeling? Right? And so we got to go first, somebody has to go first, leaders go first. And so that’s kind of the barrier though, the idea that I like these ideas, Stephen, but you don’t know my world, you’ll know my situation, my boss, my company. Another one is kind of just a whole series of fear based scenarios, you know, fear, you know, what if I try this and I lose control? 

Or what if I had been burned in the past? And you know, and you know, or what, I tried to say it doesn’t work, or what if I don’t get the credit, maybe there’s a little bit of.

Brynne Tillman  21:53

Ego.

Stephen M.R Covey  21:54

Aha. That’s not uncommon, or what if I’m not quite as confident as you think I am, maybe there’s a little bit of a posture syndrome. So these are a variety of fear based kinds of barriers that can get in the way. 

So with each of these, we kind of just confront and take them head on, and actually flip it completely, and show you how this is a better way of leading, you’ll actually have more control in a trust and inspire culture than a command and control culture, and you get better results, now comes those interns I’m not working, the odds are that you’ll have actually get better performance. 

If you trust your people, rather than dictate to them the methods of how they do it, let them determine that, you know, instead, you know, Delegate outcomes that then come up with the process and the methods of achieving them, and so forth. So that’s another common one. And then, and then I could just, you know, I won’t go through them all, but I’ll just give you the last one.

And that’s the idea that, you know, “Stephen, this is who I am?”. You know, I’ve, this is what I know, this is what I’ve achieved a lot of success with a command and control model. And so I know this, and it’s kind of part of my identity. And it’s all around me as I’ve been mentored in this and coached in this and had success with this. 

And you’re asking me to change for this new world. And in the idea there is that you know, what, we are not our style. We’re not programmed, we’re programmers, we can reprogram, we can rescript, we can change our style to be more relevant in a world going forward. We can, I just heard this metaphor of sweet like, you know, swinging on the vine, Tarzan and Jane swinging on the vine, we can let go of the one bite and go into another. 

So maybe we’ve been in command and control. And maybe that worked in the past, but it’s not going to work going forward. And so we need to make that shift, take that leap, even if we’ve been defined by this, because we are programmers, not programs, we can read scripts. And we can trust and inspire.

Brynne Tillman  23:53

I think the most important thing to hear is what worked for you yesterday, will not work for you tomorrow, we were on a different path whether you say past shut down and pandemic, whether the weight and use opened up with the way we want to work. We were forced to work remotely. And now a huge amount of folks are like I like this, I get two hours back of my computer time like this. 

This is great. And so and I know that a lot of leaders slash managers will say, “Well, I don’t know what they’re doing all day.”. I mean, in the office, they have to be here because they might be doing laundry instead of doing their work. And I find that, you know, those are the folks that are stuck in that command and control. Right? And so but.

Stephen M.R Covey  24:47

They aren’t and the thing about it is that that people won’t feel inspired from that and they won’t bring out the best in them and, and but they’re worried about it, but what if he had a different approach to it of You’re not just blindly trusting people, no, it’s you build the agreement together with clear expectations around the trust being given with an agreed upon process of accountability to those expectations, so that you’re not losing control. 

It’s just not controlled through micromanagement, and hovering over agents dead control through the agreement, control through the context, through the relationship for the culture, because of what you’re building, then people feel empowered, they feel trusted, and inspired, and they perform better and they give the trust back to you becomes a virtuous upward spiral, and you still have control, that’s the great thing. 

It’s just in a different form and far better. Whereas I’ve seen a lot of people, you know, people, some people are working from home, but they don’t feel trusted. And some companies have installed productivity software that looks and feels like surveillance software to the people. And that’s even worse, kind of like you do not trust me more than Wi-Fi or me, Right? 

You know, and that’s just not going to, it’s not going to tap into what people can give, what they’re capable of. And the gap between our performance and our potential is too great. It’s a leadership challenge. We’ve got to bring out the best in others. 

Brynne Tillman  26:12

Well, I just had a moment of sitting here with Stephen, Mr. Covey, listening to these magic words. And like, it’s a surreal feeling. But what about you? I have literal chills, because this is the world I want to live in.

Stephen M.R Covey  26:32

Yes, yes. And I, here’s my guess, is the world that our listeners and viewers want to live into? I think it’s I think it’s you, I think it’s me, I think it’s everyone that Don’t we all want to be trusted and inspired? When we think about this? Let me just ask our listeners and viewers this question. Think of a person in your life who believed in you. 

And I didn’t ask this of you to read someone who believed in you, someone who had confidence in you, someone who maybe believed in you, more than you believe in yourself, maybe took a chance on you, maybe gave you an opportunity.

 And it could come from any walk of life, it could come at work, you know, a mentor, a coach, a leader, but it also could come in the community, a friend or a neighbor, or an athletic coach, or a family member and aunts or a grandparent, a parent, somebody who believes in you, who trusted and inspired you, as you identify such a person ask, what did that do to me? How did I respond? 

That kind of belief in me, that kind of trust placed in me? Did I need to be managed? No, it brought out the best in me, and how did I see myself differently because of it? And what did I do? And, you know, brings out the best? Back to your question, isn’t this what we all want? It is, what if we could become that kind of leader for those that we let for those around us, for others, for our children, for our communities, and we lead in that way to bring out the best in them. 

This pays this forward to what someone has done for us, let’s do it. For others, let’s become this kind of trust inspired leader.

Brynne Tillman  28:07

I love to think of how many lives we can touch.

Stephen M.R Covey  28:11

We can touch a lot of lives. 

Brynne Tillman  28:13

It’s amazing. Alright, I have one last question. How can organizations begin to shift from this traditional command and control mindset to a trust and inspire culture?

Stephen M.R Covey  28:15

Yes, lift where you stand, just start where you’re at, and try to get a model of this happening. So you know, if you’re the CEO of the company, then you’ve got a lot more ability to have the entire organization start this shift. But maybe you’re a team leader, and or a sales leader, or what have you, and are professional, and you’re not the overall CEO. 

So what if you could model a trust and inspire team and culture to the rest of the organization where you’re both getting the results, but you’re doing it in a way that’s growing the people who are getting the results, but you’re doing it in a way that inspires trust.

And then where people feel engaged and inspired and your engagement scores are higher than others, as your results are good to have people say, “You know, what’s big doing?” “Look at this, getting great results that are their engagement off the charts”. “What are you doing? And you’re saying”, Well, look, I’m approaching leadership through a whole new way of thinking about it, freshness buyer. 

And so I start, you know, I look in the mirror, I start with myself and my team and my leadership. And I rippled out from there, we just need to start doing this, we get enough of a critical mass, and enough of these ripple effects going on, we can begin to really have an impact and begin to shift an entire team and culture and organization. So it’s back to kind of the Margaret Mead quote that the best way to bring about the change that we want is with just starting with ourselves and with just a few people. 

And you ripple out from there. The only way changes truly ever have print. And so don’t wait. Don’t wait on the boss to win and everyone else you model, then you can be met. And then you can mentor and people need to see models of a trust Inspire. Team just inspires a leader and culture so that they know you can do this, you can still get results. This is not soft and weak. Now this is strong. It’s just You can be strong without being forceful. 

You can be authoritative without being authoritarian. I think of Satya Nadella. And how he has led at Microsoft. He modeled, he trusted and he inspired. And he inherited something that kind of wasn’t growing as much and wasn’t as innovative as much and there was not keeping the talent, he had completely transformed it through his leadership style, than least the greatness of the organization by unleashing the greatness of His people, Cheryl Bachelder, at Popeye’s turned around to unleash the greatness of the organization by first unleashing the greatness of the people, there are leaders and models of this address inspire leadership. 

And we need that so that people don’t just say, well, to get results, you have to be in command and control now, you want to get results and sustain them. Trust and inspire, is what it’s about. You not only get the results, because when you empower people to trust them with an agreement, they perform better, but you also grow as a person. And therefore your ability to get results in the future has just gone up, or more capable.

Brynne Tillman  31:23

Exponentially.

Stephen M.R Covey  28:25

Exponentially. And this is not even talking about well-being, which is the other bonus, we’re growing the people and they’re happier, they stay with us. So it’s a virtuous upward cycle. And I believe selling can be done in the same way. Attrition is by our mindset and sales, which is we see the greatness and the potential inside of people. 

And so we allow them to choose. And because we believe in them and how we approach it, it feels like not either to or for me, but with me. I’m a partner and a collaborator. And I’m focusing on inspiration or motivation. It’s a way of thinking about building relationships of trust and sales. 

Brynne Tillman  32:07

And change your KPIs. Absolutely. The eyes are killing me in this industry. Yeah.

Stephen M.R Covey  32:13

Changes your home mindset. Yeah, how we go about it. And I think doing this through social sales is a great opportunity as well, but you’re doing.

Brynne Tillman  32:21

Well. And the core of what we believe is to detach from what the prospect is worth to us and attach to what we are worth to the prospect.

Stephen M.R Covey  32:34

That’s Trusted and Inspire that well.

Brynne Tillman  32:36

I mean, it’s why I’m so in love with this. I mean, it speaks to my heart and my soul. And it makes me happy. And it makes me happy to implement and to identify where my command and control is. And how do I reframe this? Yes, because you’re still going for the same result. But how do I do that by empowering other people to help come up with that solution. 

And what’s really interesting, just from my personal experience, is that a lot of times I will say, I’m just going to do it, we’re just going to do it my way, because I know that it works. But I am so ignorant to all the other ways that it could work because I never asked to write and, and in my team now. I mean, my team is definitely empowered, and they are definitely bringing ideas to the table. 

But they liked my ideas. They never even thought of other ideas. Right? It wasn’t like I wasn’t suppressing their ideas or telling them I’m not interested. They didn’t even know it was an option. Because I had this is how we’re going to do it. 

Okay. Right. Yeah. And now, we mean, the business is exploding, because I can leverage, you know, I have six people on my team, and I can leverage the brilliance and they’re all different from each of them. And do we adapt everything or adopt everything? No, but they’re open to having that conversation. And if we’re not going to do it, they’ve talked us out of it.

Stephen M.R Covey  34:18

That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. They’ve come to it. And right, but you’re they’re now looking for these ways. You’re focusing on outcomes, not methods, they’re coming up with new methods, new ways, new approaches that you might not have thought up, they might not have thought of when they’re just kind of following what you’ve given them. 

But they’re achieving these outcomes and finding new ways that maybe we’re better than your way. And if they don’t, maybe they come back to say and I think your way actually is the best. I’ve tried a lot of others, but they feel more committed to it. 

They’re more engaged with it. Now along the way you’re growing them and their or their ability to come up with new ideas, new approaches has gone up and it’s a win in a better place all together, it’s just such a better way to lead, especially in our world today, where people have such choices and options. And this is the best way I know to attract, retain, engage and inspire talent, and to bring out the best in people.

Brynne Tillman  35:18

I cannot even tell you how inspired I was before this. I am so honored to have gotten this time with you to have learned even more, a deeper dive into Trust and Inspire and to share this with my community. You are an incredible human, and I am so grateful our paths have crossed. And all I can say is go out there, get Speed of Trust, get trust, and inspire. It’s not just career-changing. It is life-changing. It is transformative and I’m grateful everyday for you.

Stephen M.R Covey  36:00

Thank you so much, Brynne, you are so kind and generous.

Brynne Tillman  36:03

Oh, I think so, how can people get in touch with you? What’s the best way? And what do you do with companies beyond books?

Stephen M.R Covey  36:13

I speak, I consult, I work with them. I work with senior leadership teams, and help them build trust and inspire cultures and trust inspire teams and build high trust cultures, you know, that is a talent magnet. So I do a lot of work with organizations I speak at conferences, and you know, all around the world, some 57 countries now on site in person speaking about trust and inspiration and the like and, and then and I love that and then we have an organization Franklin Covey organization where we can do is more than just me. 

In other words, I can maybe kick something off. And if it resonates, you can go deep with this and take it to the organization to build that high-trust culture throughout the whole company. So we have a whole variety of ways that we can engage but love to have you get more acquainted, you know, the book Stress Inspires the “Speed of Trust.”.

You go to the website, Trust and Inspire also have read on Speed of Trust. And then I’m on LinkedIn, and I know you’re expert on this and, and Twitter and Instagram, love a follow you can reach me through those means as well. And love to serve in any way I can to help. I love this. Bring it out of this kind of world.

Brynne Tillman  37:33

Yeah, I’m gonna throw out there sales leaders who have a different kind of keynote at your next sales conference. Have one that creates “Trust and Inspires” call on Stephen M. R. Covey. Thank you, my friend. I am just absolutely, you made my year.

Stephen M.R Covey  37:54

You’re so kind Ren, thank you. And I love that little zone leader of the sales conference, shout out because I come from sales. My background is in that and I was the national sales manager as well as you know, a salesperson, you know, held the back myself, but I come from that. But this is a transformative mindset that could allow people to interpret your clients or prospects will interpret you differently in kind through this trojan-inspired approach than the traditional command and control approach. So I’d love to help shift the paradigm.

Brynne Tillman  38:30

I love that.

Stephen M.R Covey  38:32

And it was great to be with you. Great, all our listeners and viewers.

Brynne Tillman  38:34

Yes, thank you so much. And as we’re wrapping this up to all our listeners, don’t forget when you’re out and about to make your sales social.

Outro  38:46

Thanks for listening and join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales, training and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Don’t forget to subscribe to get the latest episodes from the making sales social podcasts, leave a review down below. Tell us what you think, what you learned and what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com for more information.