Episode 21: Caryn Kopp on Social Media Marketing

Caryn Kopp 0:00

Some people are using social media as a marketing tool to get to influencers of decision-makers, to get to some of the decision-makers to create awareness, almost like softening the beach so that when you do reach out and hopefully everybody does reach out to their decision-makers to start a relationship that you’re not starting from square one, that they know a little bit about you before you reach out that’s what it would mean to me.

Bill McCormick 0:31

I really liked the idea of softening the beach or maybe, you know, preparing the ground if we’re using a farming analogy.

Intro (Bob Woods) 0:42

Welcome to The Making Sales Social podcast, featuring the top voices in sales and marketing. Join hosts Brynne Tillman and Bill McCormick, as they discussed the best tips and strategies, they are teaching their clients, so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Here are your hosts; Brynne Tillman and Bill McCormick.

Bill McCormick 1:08

Welcome to Making Sales Social. I’m Bill McCormick.

Brynne Tillman 1:11

I’m Brynne Tillman.

Bill McCormick 1:12

So Brynne, who’s our guest today?

Brynne Tillman 1:14

We have the one and only Caryn Kopp, the Chief Door Opener, by far the coolest title ever invented in sales. So I think that’s awesome. Just quick, I–Caryn and I have been kind of circling the same folks for years and years and years. And finally, just a couple of weeks ago, we finally got to really connect one-on-one. I think she’s amazing. I have learned so much from her. And I’m so excited, Caryn welcome, tell everyone a little bit about yourself and about Kopp Consulting.

Caryn Kopp 1:48

Oh, well, thank you for having me on. I’m very excited to be here, you are just awesome. If anybody listening has not had a conversation with Brynne, you definitely have to change that very quickly. Because you are awesome, and your whole concept and business model is awesome. So we have been around this is our 21st year in business. We are best known for the Door Opener service. And that is where we use very senior-level business developers, who represent our clients and get them executive-level meetings so that our clients can close more sales.(Brynne) That’s what we all need.

Bill McCormick 2:22

That’s what everyone needs. So listen, if you’re listening, I’m sure you’re in sales, you need this type of thing. I hope you’re taking notes. So Caryn, one thing we ask all of our first time guests is, what is making sales social mean to you?

Caryn Kopp 2:36

Well, it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. I think if you have different people on this show, everybody else is going to have a different definition. For me, it’s about, some people are using social media as a marketing tool to get to influencers of decision-makers, to get to some of the decision-makers to create awareness, almost like softening the beach. So that when you do reach out, and hopefully everybody does reach out to their decision-makers to start a relationship, that you’re not starting from square one, that they know a little bit about you before you reach out, that’s what it would mean to me.

Bill McCormick 3:18

Great answer, I really liked the idea of softening the beach or maybe, you know, preparing the ground. If we’re using a farming analogy, that is really great. So you deal. So let’s talk a little bit more about the level you deal at because it’s quite a high level. So you help people get meetings with higher level executives, is that correct?

Caryn Kopp 3:43

We actually get the meetings for our clients. So that’s really easy for them, because then they just go on the meetings, and then they take it from there. One of the things that everybody always told me that they would say, “you get me in the door, I can close most of the time, I just can’t get in the door”. And that is the business model where we’ll represent them, we’ll figure out what to say. It doesn’t happen on the first try. They’re not sitting around these decision-makers just waiting for our call. So we have to know what to say on the first try, on the third try, on the 20th try in order to build that relationship and give the decision maker a reason why taking the meeting would be so important.

Brynne Tillman 4:28

So I love this. I would love to hear what are some of the research things that you do, or that your chief door opener–No, that your door–No, you’re the chief door opener. What your door openers do, before they make the first outreach?

Caryn Kopp 4:41

Okay, so before they even get to the point where they’re making the time before the first outreach. There is a whole messaging process that happens so that we’re first figuring out who are the right prospects for our clients. What represents an important win for them, which groups of prospects are going to exper–feel urgency around taking a meeting, because not everybody’s going to feel urgency around taking a meeting to learn about somebody new. And not everybody’s going to feel urgency around taking steps after the meeting. So we take our clients through the process of figuring out who is going to experience urgency, along with who will willingly pay what our clients want to charge for their services because most people who hit my doorstep are not selling on price, and not every buyer out there is going to buy on value. So which groups of prospects will feel urgency, who are also willingly pay, what our clients want to charge, who will also find our clients to be the obvious solution to their problems? So we add these filters in from a targeting perspective, and help our clients figure out which groups of prospects to take this net, this big world and make it more narrow. Once we do that, we figure out why would that person take a meeting? Why would that person take a meeting with our client? And then we develop this messaging document for door openings. This is sales messaging, not marketing, messaging, or door opening, along with what the answers for the objections are. Once we do that, we have been assigned our door opener to it, our door opener internalizes the language, has to pass a roleplay and then sits down with that prospect list. Once they sit down with the prospect list. What do they do then? Because that’s your question. So what do they do then?

Brynne Tillman 6:38

Well, actually, what did–I also want to know, what did you do in the research to find out some of these things? Because for us, social selling starts with listening, right? Social selling starts with the research, looking at the company page and seeing, you know, who are all the people kind of taking inventory mapping out all the people looking at what content they’re engaging on, googling to see what press releases are out there.

Caryn Kopp 7:07

So I’ll give you some of the secret sauce, right? So when we’re doing this messaging process, before that document is developed, our messaging strategists are interviewing representative A-level clients. Not every one of our clients wants more of the same. Sometimes they want to swim upstream, sometimes they want bigger deals, higher level executives, or maybe executives who–it’s not the CFO anymore, it’s the COO, well different things are important, different people. So we do these interviews, but interestingly, when companies do these kinds of interviews for themselves they are very focused on why someone is satisfied. I don’t care why someone’s satisfied, I just assume they’re satisfied. That’s not interesting to me, what’s interesting to me is why did they say yes to the meeting in the first place? What was happening behind the scenes? And we’ve trademarked this messaging process for sales called “Moment of Yes”. What were all the factors that were happening behind the scenes? In these, the representative A-level clients world, that made them say yes, all the different factors could be personal, could be business, could be competitive. All the different factors, what made that person say yes, and when we interview several different representative A-level clients, we hear common themes. But the thing is that most people don’t ask that question. Right? They don’t ask what was happening in their world. But that information also needs to carry over into the case studies. Nobody puts that in a case study either. Why did this person say yeah, I need to talk to someone new. And then we focus the messaging around those business issues that cause somebody to want to talk to someone new to know that the people in their world couldn’t solve their problem in the way my clients organization could. So there’s all this sales messaging methodology that we use to create that based on those interviews.(Brynne) I love that.

Bill McCormick 9:09

Oh, good. It’s so good. And I think what it comes down to is one of the things that we talk about, a lot is our competition and what our competition really is status quo. And what your messaging is, and I love it. I wrote it down the moment of Yes–is what was that tipping point where, okay, the status quo, I’m uncomfortable enough now, right? The situation has become uncomfortable enough now that I have to make a change.

Caryn Kopp 9:37

Yes. And many people when they’re focused on their messaging, they don’t realize there’s a difference between marketing messaging and sales messaging, so that they sit there and they spend hours and tons of money on trying to figure out why they’re different, which might be okay for marketing, but for sales, nobody cares why you’re different. Nobody cares. The only thing that they want is somebody who is of more value, than what they have currently. So if you could articulate that in language that’s relevant and compelling, the individual words are relevant and compelling to the person that you’re talking to, you win and your competition loses. But you know, what’s interesting you guys is that, I’ve seen so many situations where the person who has the best words wins, even though that person was not necessarily the best person for the job.

Brynne Tillman 10:33

That’s so interesting. I had a conversation this weekend with someone who, you know, he’s launching, kind of this new company and he was talking about all his differentiators and all. And I said to him, “there are lots of people like me, but this is what we do differently”. I said, “I promise you and what you do, because there’s so much competition in his world, the best salesperson will win”. And he said, “Well, what do you mean, the best salesperson will win?”, I said, “because the best salesperson is not going to bring up the gaps that they have, they’re going to sell them on the features that they have”. So you’re sitting here going, you know, all these people don’t have the bells and whistles that we have. But that salesperson is going to show up, they’re not going to mention the bells and whistles, that person is not going to think they need those bells and whistles, because they were never even in the conversation with the salesperson. (Caryn) Yeah, (Brynne) less, you can articulate that well, in a way that shows more value. They’re gonna get the deal every time. And he’s an engineer, so that was a whole other–

Caryn Kopp 11:40

So you bring up a point that’s just truly fascinating. And I’ve done a study of this over time, as my company has grown. It’s not always the best salesperson, but it’s the person who has the best words. So the sales people, not all salespeople are great sales messaging strategists. But the job of sales messaging strategist doesn’t exist anywhere, except for in my company. That’s, that doesn’t exist. I can’t go and hire somebody from another company, who’s amazing at developing sales messaging, because that just doesn’t exist anywhere. So if you could figure out what are the right words, what are the right phrases to say, and sometimes salespeople will stumble on that. But in other situations, if you can figure out what that right sales messaging is, and give it to the right salesperson, that is magic.

Bill McCormick 12:40

And so this goes to one of the things we talk about a lot, is when we’re talking about thought leadership, and what we’re sharing the messaging that we’re sharing on LinkedIn, with our clients, Brynne has this phrase, you need to capture your genius. And we’ve taken to doing this that when we’re on a call, we’re speaking with a client, and we say a phrase, or we’ll write it down. And we’ll capture that. And so I think that what you’re speaking to is perfect for this, that for those of you that that are in sales, which should be everyone that’s watching or listening to this, that as you’re having client meetings, you need to start capturing those phrases that you’re saying, where you’re getting the client to lean in, you know, where you’re getting, as Brynne says, the pug tilt, you know, the head tilt of the dog that’s like, ‘Huh’, you know, when you’re creating curiosity, that you need to start writing that stuff down, that would help, would you agree.

Caryn Kopp 13:35

I totally agree, in my experience, the people who are amazing at this don’t even know they’re doing it. It comes out like, if I come out with something like amazing phrasing, and you ask me, “What did you say, I probably can’t tell you”, when we started, when we were scaling the company, and I was the only one doing messaging. Because at that point, I I learned that some people just have it in their DNA to come out with this, and other people don’t. That’s when we created the sales messaging position in my company. And then we needed to figure out “okay, how do we get this process out of my head?”. Because when they would say to me, “Well, how do you figure this out?”. I would say “I don’t know”. So they did a whole study, my employees did a study of how I develop messaging, when I had no idea what I did. And so we started recording everything, and that’s what I recommend for the sales people out there. If you don’t know what process leads you to get to a close start recording. Now there are recording laws. So be really careful. You are in a state, that you know it’s bilateral, you’re gonna have to ask, it’s not always the best thing. You can record your side of the conversation without violating any recording laws, so you can hear what you’re saying. And then you could figure out What they were asking you in response. And then once you have that recorded, then get the transcription, and then you can start working with it. Because otherwise, if you ask somebody to write it down, we don’t know, typically, but record it, and then you’ll be like, “Oh, I can’t believe I said that”. Yeah, that’s, that’s gold. And then you start putting together the whole messaging document that was good. 

Bill McCormick 15:23

And now when most of us live on zoom, zoom allows you to record it has auto transcription now, which makes it so much easier. So it’s, you know, just a matter of, when you’re setting the meeting up with your client, you’re saying, “Hey, listen, and I’m just going to record this for my own use, just so I know what I’m saying. Is that okay?”, and I think most people are like, “yeah, you know, whatever”.

Caryn Kopp 15:46

So the thing is that for the meetings, you can do that. Or you could say I–you know, taking notes, in case one of us says something that’s really important and is okay with you. But when you’re getting the meeting, you can’t really ask that question. (Bill) True. When you’re calling somebody, when you’re writing to someone, it’s a whole different dynamic that’s going on there. Because those conversations are like that. And you don’t get a second chance at those conversations. Just hit record on your voice memo.

Brynne Tillman 16:17

Yeah, the funny thing is, I don’t have a lot of phone calls, they’re all zoom calls. But I’m almost net–unless I’m picking up a call to tell Bill, I’m going to be three minutes late to the Zoom. I’m not mad, I’m on Zoom all day long now. And so it’s kind of moved away from that actual call.

Caryn Kopp 16:40

For the first meeting? Yes. But to get the first meeting with someone you don’t know, which is what we do all day long for our clients. We are calling them, we’re calling their cell phones. Now. You know, before the pandemic, we weren’t calling people’s cell phones. Now it’s acceptable to call someone’s cell phone. We’re writing them an email, we’re reaching them through a personal LinkedIn. Those are the ways we get the first meet.

Brynne Tillman 17:06

Those are recorded though, the emails in the messaging, I think the one place that you’re saying that we might miss is the voicemail.

Caryn Kopp 17:12

Yes, when or the live dialogue is even better. What happens when somebody answers live? How do you navigate that live conversation to get to the first meeting, that’s what I’m on.

Brynne Tillman 17:24

Got it! I’m there now. Yeah. We book all–are like, I don’t pick up the phone until something is booked. So everything is through messaging, and then here’s my calendar link, let’s pick a time that works for you. So our methodology doesn’t get on the phone until they raise their hand.

Caryn Kopp 17:44

And there are certain people who are just not going to raise their hands. And you may have enough people who raise their hands that you’re fine. But usually, the people who come to me, they’re looking for the people who don’t raise their hands, but who are exactly right for them.

Brynne Tillman 17:59

Well, and you’re going to–we’re like VP of marketing and sales. They’re very like–they’re much more light, they’re conversational, they’re extroverts, they’re right, when you go up into that C suite level, it’s a totally different–

Caryn Kopp 18:14

Right, and you have to say something that’s meant just for them. Otherwise, there’s no reason why they would answer you, or you know, more likely they’re going to send it to somebody else. But if you want to stay in that office, you have to say something that’s meant for them.

Bill McCormick 18:28

So I want to drill down deeper on that, in our last few minutes here. Let’s talk about that messaging. And one of the things you said earlier was valued, providing value. So how are you suggesting that your clients provide value to that high level, that gets them to lean in, that gets them to raise their hand and say, “Hey, I want to know more? Tell me more?”.

Caryn Kopp 18:49

It is that moment of Yes. You need to find out why other people like that person experienced this moment where they knew they needed something that their current vendor, and the other people they know who did what their current vendor does were one of them was their cousin Vinnie, right, why they needed to go outside that sphere. So once you know what that is, and you can articulate that, of course, you need to do research on the individual. That’s really important too, to further personalize what you say to give that person a reason why knocking three people off their calendar and making room for you would be the best decision they make this week. That’s the sales messaging.

Bill McCormick 19:31

So good. So I hope if you’re listening, you’ve taken notes on this, because there’s a lot of nuggets that I wrote down that I think will work really, really well for us. And so in these last few moments, can you just tell some folks how they can stay in touch with you and if you have any special offers that they can take Yep, I’m sure there’s people listening that want to know a little bit more about that moment of Yes.

Caryn Kopp 19:57

People can reach out to me through my website, which is koppconsultingusa.com, K-O-P-P consulting usa.com. In my blog, I have several articles about the six sentence voicemail, what happens when you reach someone live, all sorts of different things about sales messaging, that my offer to you is that if you want to read that article and create your own sales message and send it to me, I will review it for you and give you some thoughts on whether I feel that it needs to be pumped up, or whether you’ve hit the mark.

Brynne Tillman 20:33

How do people hire you? I know you’re at a very big level, are there different levels?

Caryn Kopp 20:38

Yeah, so people will hire us based on weekly hours. So they have support of one of our senior-level door openers, who represents them, as I said, out in the market for a certain number of weekly hours for a minimum of 18 weeks, and we get the meetings that our clients need, so that the producers, the sellers can go in and close more. So this gives people the opportunity to focus on closing, and, and nurturing those relationships to accelerate the close while we’re constantly feeding the top of the funnel, with meetings with people who wouldn’t otherwise raise their hands.

Brynne Tillman 21:14

Great! This was absolutely one of the most enlightening, like interviews, it’s at a level that the listeners need to hear. Because, you know, it is about getting that first meeting. If you can get that first meeting and you can really help someone you can make a difference. And so it’s so great to hear, kind of a higher level of conversation and reach out. So this was great. I love this.

Caryn Kopp 21:42

Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

Bill McCormick 21:45

Brynne took the words right out of my mouth. I was gonna say basically the same thing. So Thank you, Caryn. Thanks for being on Making Sales Social, and thank you all for listening. Bye-Bye.

Outro (Bob Woods) 21:58

Thanks for listening and join us again for more special guest instructors bringing you marketing, sales, training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Don’t forget to subscribe to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast. Leave a review down below, tell us what you think, what you learned, and what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify,  Stitcher, and Google Play. Visit our website socialsaleslink.com for more information.