Episode 290: Fractional CMOs: Aligning for Success

Intro

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I am so excited about my guest today because he is not just an incredible marketer. He’s my friend, and we know each other in person, we actually met for the first time in person before LinkedIn and his company was the company I turned to during the pandemic when I said, Oh, my God! I don’t know how to market. I just know how to sell. So they have been an incredible vendor partner of ours as well as someone. I refer all the time that said we’re gonna talk about a little bit of a different offer that he has today, and why it’s there. And really the value that it’s bringing is around fractional Cmos so I am beyond excited. Raj Kapoor is the CEO of marketing, and welcome to the show.

Rajat Kapur: Thank you, Brynne, as I always say. I’m not only a partner, as you said, but I’m also one of your clients and customers. You teach me how to use LinkedIn. It’s very easy for me to talk about how wonderful our relationship is when it hits so many different points. I’m so happy to be on again.

Brynne Tillman: Oh, we’re thrilled, and it’s a whole other subject that I’m very excited about for a couple of reasons. One of them is we work with, at least through our membership. Primarily, these small businesses. They know how they know they’re really smart at their business. They may even know how to sell.

But very few, if any, know how to market, so they are constantly working their trading their time for prospecting and not leveraging the power of inbound traffic, and often it’s because they don’t have a budget to have a full-time marketing person on staff. So I love what you’re doing, and we’ll lead up to that. But before I jump into those questions we ask all of our guests, what does making sales social mean to you?

Rajat Kapur: Sure. Well, the world has changed in the past decades, and I don’t have to tell you that, Brand, or probably tell your listeners because they already know. But to me, making sales social is using the tools that exist in the world today, which tend to be social, which tend to be things like Linkedin. To build professional relationships asking sales social is making it easier to meet with prospects on a non salesy plane the world is never gonna change. We’re never gonna love meeting salespeople and being sold. We’re never gonna love that. So how do you, as a salesperson or a marketing person make that easier and more natural? It’s by making sales social. So that’s the best answer I can give you.

Brynne Tillman: I love that I love that, and you know the importance of marketing for sales. Does it earn you the right to get the conversation right? And I think that’s some of the most important opportunities there. I mean, you could call all day long, and if no one knows your value. They don’t answer. They hang up whatever that might be. But if you are intriguing them with insights and value, they wanna talk to you. And so the power of marketing in a small business is under-leveraged generally and also underappreciated because a lot of these small business owners don’t know what they don’t know. So let’s just talk a little bit as we kind of get into that.

What are some of the challenges these small companies face in, having a fractional CMO? Could fix.

Rajat Kapur: Sure, sure, sure. So we’ll take a step back. What do most businesses that aren’t at a large scale do? Let’s call it middle market and lower. What are the common traits that they face? They’re trying to build a brand, whether that’s B to B or B to C. You’re trying to build awareness of your company, your service, your product, whatever it is, you usually have limited resources. You usually have limited patience. Right? We all have bosses, or if you’re the boss, you have a lack of patience. You wanna get things done quickly. And so what we find. So we’ve been in business for about 7 years. Right? And so what we found in almost every situation where we were not successful is that there was something in the strategy that we didn’t do correctly.

And I always say this strategy is something that’s never gonna go out of style, especially marketing strategy. What is a marketing strategy, marketing strategy is, What is my customer target? What are their problems? How do I solve them? What makes what makes me unique? And how do I go where they hang out?

Those are fundamental tools that are always going to be true. And whenever you try to skip steps because you’re impatient, you don’t have the resources. You don’t have the knowledge on how to do that. It’s because of one of those fundamentals you fail to do.

You don’t know what makes your company unique. You don’t know what the person’s problem is. You don’t get to the right decision-maker. So the frustration that we had by expending so much energy to try to run programs for people that skipped over strategy resulted in us creating about a year and a half ago the fractional Cmo practice. So what is a fractional CMO, it is a solution that says most of these companies don’t have the resources for a full time. Marketing people can hire a fraction of a person at a fraction of their time, but they get their full brain for that time. So you might get somebody with 2530 years, of experience running, marketing departments in your industry. But you don’t have to pay for that full-time, salary, benefits, and all of those other things. That’s the advantage of hiring a fractional CMO.

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, that’s amazing. So you know. And then the whole point of that is, that it can grow into you know, a world where you have enough business that you may end up hiring a full time. Cmo. Down the road, this allows you to scale without the risk of having a full-time employee. So I love that. But let’s let’s talk about the count. The marketing challenges that these small businesses are facing that.

They don’t even realize whether it’s the inbound brand awareness. You talked a little bit about that. But talk about those challenges, and how marketing generally can fix that.

Rajat Kapur: Yeah, so you can grow a business to a considerable size without marketing. Right? It can absolutely happen you could have an amazing salesperson. You can have an amazing technology. You can do everything correctly other than marketing. But quite often to break the ceiling, you actually have to take a couple of steps back and do the fundamentals correctly.

Rajat Kapur: Okay, so what are some of those things? Typically speaking? The answer is in like 4 areas. So number one, it could be internal to your company.

So you may not be communicating internally very well between your salespeople, your technology teams, your CEO, whoever is in your particular organization, understanding what the problem is, or let’s say, assuming what the answer is, and jumping too many steps. That’s usually major major issue in some companies number 2 is you’ve never looked outside in.

So what a fractional CMO typically does is talk to your customers. And they don’t believe the sales team because they wanna hear it directly from customers. And if you have a complicated value chain as you work through distributors or retailers or other people, they wanna talk to the end, users, and they’ll wanna talk to the intermediary. So a distributor why do you buy from us? Why do you not buy from us? How much do you buy? How much do you buy from our competitors?

The third one is competition. Quite often we either don’t think about competitors the right way without marketing, or we just don’t think about competitors at all. So really, understanding, there’s a term we use in the marketing world called your next best alternative.

So it’s not necessarily a direct competitor that does the same thing that you do in the same way. It’s an alternative that they might do. And so if you’re in the software industry, the best alternative to software is Excel quite often. Your next best alternative is your customers using, excel. So, understanding how to make yourself come across as unique in the eyes of those comp competitors, direct or indirect, is a major part of it.

And then the fourth thing we always do is a digital assessment. It is, let’s say, shocking, but not so shocking when you’ve done it a hundred times. How different companies reach different levels with different digital presences. So quite often, having an outside expert come in and say, here’s what’s going. Well, here’s what’s not going well. And here’s how we fix it, is it quite is a is an extremely high value-added item, to really understand from an expert what that digital assessment could look like?

Brynne Tillman: So that’s great, and I don’t think a business owner would have the time, resources, or energy to sit down and do that. But the Roi, on getting that foundation has gotta be enormous, right? There are so many missed opportunities based on people not even knowing you’re out there and number one. But what you’re saying is even your client base likes understanding the cross-cell upsell opportunities in that as well. Right? So are you buying 20% of it from me? How do I get to 50? Right? Whatever that is.

Rajat Kapur: Exactly.

Brynne Tillman: So I love that you’re finding through research. And I love that you’re starting with what we call social listening. But I love that. You’re starting with the research, right? So everything you’re doing is based on real data. Not just, hey, this sounds good. And so I think that that’s really powerful, and something that very few small businesses have the capacity to do on their own.

So I think that’s amazing. So let’s talk about kind of some of the qualities that someone might look for, whether they’re hiring. And I’ll put this if you’re hiring a marketer or you’re looking to do fractional marketing. What are some of the qualities that a small company should look for in its marketing?

Rajat Kapur: Oh, absolutely absolutely so. So. Here’s what I would say, no offense to anybody that I’m about to offend, so I don’t. I don’t mean this intentionally, but anybody with marketing experience who may be 25 years old and just purchased their new MacBook Pro can call themselves a fractional CMO, right? So it’s very difficult to stand out. So what we have done. The number one piece of advice I would give the company is to vet them exactly the same way you would vet a full-time employee.

Now, it’s not as large of an A of a of a commitment, because the money is a little bit less. It’s not a full-time employee. You’re not paying them as A. W. 2 all of those things, but certainly, vet them the same way you would vet them. Okay, most people think, oh, this is just a shorter-term hire, and they don’t do that. So that’s number one.

Make sure, number 2 that they have the experience related to what you’re trying to do. They should have already been down the path, and that’s usually 2 criteria, but it’s sometimes a little bit different. So business owners, your your mileage may vary number one. That’s industry-related.

So if you’re launching a Saas product, and you’re trying to get it from this level to this particular level. Look for that trait in somebody.

I’ve already grown an SAS product to grow from here to here, and trust me, the talent is out there. So these are not too restrictive. Number 2. It tends to be the company stage. Right? So it’s first is the industry, and second is the company stage. There’s a big difference between getting whatever your 0 to one is going from 0 to 1 one to 1010 to a hundred and a hundred to a thousand. Whatever your scale is, it’s very different from how you operate a marketing department in.

So you want to look for somebody who’s done that. Okay, that said, we have a general rule for everybody in our community, because again, we do this as a service. We require at least 15 years of total experience, if not 20 or 25 number 2. That person has to have run a marketing department in a real company in real life and then number 3. They had to have spent significant time as a consultant agency owner or advisor. And what I find becomes the most powerful thing in a fractional executive is time on both sides of that table, right? They need to understand what it’s like to live in the company and live what it’s like, and then they need to understand what it’s like to be an outside provider of resources to them. So every single we have 55 fractional CMOs in our community, and all of them meet that basic criteria in addition to having expertise in particular industries and company stages. So I would say, that’s the advice I would give to give to one of your listeners, who may be thinking about hiring a fractional executive.

Brynne Tillman: Oh, that’s great! And and it’s interesting. Cause, I think what you said is. You, that there’s enough pool of people out there that have that experience as a business owner. You know, you may think well, I can hire a 25-year-old full-time for $55,000 a year.

And if I were to hire this Cmo. It would be $200,000 a year. But for $55,000 a year, you could get that fractional CEO. Excuse me, that fractional Cmo, who’s gonna be much faster at producing. You’re gonna get way more than a full-time person fractionally when you’ve had that kind of experience.

Rajat Kapur: It’s a very common track. We talk to people all the time about it. So let’s be really clear. Sometimes you need execution done, and you need more hours than a fractional Cmo. Could never do so. It is sometimes the correct decision to hire that full-time person internally and quote-unquote save money absolutely. Sometimes that results in more of a mess, because here’s what happens. You hire somebody more junior who seems a little bit less expensive.

But if you number one don’t have a strategy in place, then that person tends to flounder. And where do they go? Number 2? They’re coming to you, Mr. Business owner, and asking you what to work on, how to do it, and where to do it. If you hire a true fractional Cmo. With a lot of experience. That person should be telling you what to do, not asking you what to work on. And that’s the real difference between working with seasoned professionals versus junior employees. But let’s be really clear. If you have a strategy.

Your business is not changing that much, and if you’re really confident in the things that need to be done, then go do it. That’s fine. Go hire a junior-level person. A fractional CMO is not a great fit for a lot of people, because sometimes those those expectations are misaligned. So if you’re open to having somebody outside literally telling you what to go do. I’ve been down this path. Here are the things to avoid. Please do this. Don’t do this. Those are, you know, those are some of the traits we look for in potentially good prospects.

Brynne Tillman: I’m gonna go one level deeper on that expectation. So what are some of the common expectations your clients have when they’re looking for a CMO. That is aligned with success and misaligned.

Rajat Kapur: Absolutely absolutely. Well, I’ll tell you. I’ll start with the negative because those are certainly the easier ones to get to. So number one is, they think a fractional Cmo. Can come in in a few weeks and fix everything right. We have.

We have clients of considerable size and considerable complexity. So you may be going through a brand change. You might be trying to fix your inbound marketing funnels. You might be trying to do lead generation every time you add a layer of complexity to it. Maybe you have a certain size. Maybe you have regulatory challenges in your business. That just means that the fractional CMO needs to figure out the problem a bit longer. So I’d say, the number one challenge we face is when they expect too much too fast. You also have to remember that somebody’s fractional.

A typical fractional engagement is one to one and a half days per week. So if you get somebody for a month at one to one and a half days a week. 2 months in. They’ve only really worked the equivalent of like 2 weeks, right as a full-time.

So expectations also need to be set with the duration of the time. I’d say the the Times, where it works best on the other side of the coin is when expectations are super clear on what success looks like.

You cannot have nebulous success, just like in any job, in any function, especially thinking about sales. You deal with a lot of salespeople, right? As long as you have enough time to build the strategy, build it the right way. Build a scorecard and then be able to have enough time to go through those scorecard materials the right way. Sometimes companies need brand awareness, sometimes they need leads in the door. Sometimes they need a new website depending on what you need.

The other thing I would think about is, what is the level of change that’s either going on inside your company or in your marketplace. In this age that we live in today, we are in dynamic marketplaces. Things are changing very quickly.

You can give a fractional marketing leader the responsibility of understanding how our company needs to respond to the outside marketplace. Usually in smaller businesses. This only falls on the shoulders of the CEO. Right? So now it’s a matter of giving that responsibility to somebody else that says, in the 3 to 5 year timeframe. How do we adjust our products and offerings to meet the needs of what customers are going to need in the longer term?

That’s not something people think about quite often, they think, oh, it’s marketing. I want a better ROI, or I want more leads. But there’s actually a longer horizon that you can expect from your marketing leader.

Brynne Tillman: So I’m gonna love that. And I’m gonna throw in the whole AI conversation into this right? So when you’re looking ahead, one of the things we really are trying to do is make sure that we are at the leading edge of AI for social selling, for content. For posts for right, we’re teaching people how to get the most out of AI, even when it comes to coming up with ideas for content. Right. So when you know you’ve got 55 fractional CMOS that is working under and marketing, which is absolutely, phenomenally year and a half, by the way. And ha! You know, how are you ensuring or encouraging or nurturing the AI shifts in marketing? Yeah, go ahead.

Rajat Kapur: No, no, no, no, no, you don’t. It’s absolutely the right question. So I would say, that marketing people who aren’t at least thinking about AI are significantly behind because the tools are everywhere, and they’re extremely easy to use. So the number one thing we’re doing for our community. So we have 2 parts to our business. One is, that we help our fractional CMOs get more projects. And second of all, we help them while they’re on those projects. So almost on a weekly basis, not as much as your community, but in our community of 55, we have a very active, slack channel, and we have regular community hours, tips, tools, and training. It’s and templates.

The one that I’m most proud of is that we have a marketing AI expert. And it’s not just somebody who says they’re an expert on Linkedin. They are actually an exited marketing agency owner and a former strategy consultant, and they run a consultancy that helps marketing departments adapt. AI. So this is this person’s world, and they’re truly an expert. They are a speaker, a regular speaker in our community, and every single month. They share the latest tools or tips a way to do a marketing role better or faster and then they always leave time for questions and answers. So when our fractionals come into our community, there are all different levels. I want to brand our community as being so AI-forward that they can introduce those efficiencies to the teams that they’re in.

When I think about AI and marketing, there are really 3 levels that I think about. And I don’t know. I’d love your feedback on this brand. So kind of like the floor level for AI to me is basic efficiency. So it can do thing faster. And it could do it at about the same quality that I can do it right. So once you get good and you teach Chatgpt, or whichever your platform of choice. I can do it faster. Just a good job. I could just do it faster. The Second Level is what I call insights. So it’s the ability to think like, I think at a higher level is unparalleled. And I don’t think more than 25% of users are actually using it for that. It’s how do you think? A little bit higher?

And then there’s this third level that blows my mind every time, and I think this is like the one to 2%. What this level is is, how can I use AI to think at a level that I didn’t even think of? And I’ll give you a great example of it in marketing. Right? So recently we were reviewing a survey of customers for a particular client, and we would get we would do use Facebook, Instagram email all these different ways to get this survey completed. And there’s like 500 of them.

And then we had a product, and they were trying the product. How did you like it? How did you not like it? And I typed in the Chat. Gpt. I ha! I said, please analyze this, and I took out all the sensitive information, all that stuff right. And it gave me really good insights. Then I said, please review it and give me some. I think the wording that I used was unusual or unexpected analyses from your work, or, however, I phrase it, I think I tried it 2 or 2, 2 or 3 different ways.

Then it started giving me correlations and causations from the spreadsheet that I would have never thought to have done the calculation.

So, for example, it said, did you know in your survey that anybody who filled this survey out from Instagram has a 3 times higher likelihood of liking the product? That’s not something. I would have originally asked it because it figured it out itself. So it’s this, and.

Brynne Tillman: What to ask. And it actually helped you to identify data inside of your data set, or how to analyze the data inside your data set. Even better.

Rajat Kapur: Yeah. And, Brynne, we’re friends. So you know, I’m pretty confident in my own abilities. Right? This was a layer that was just like I’d been doing this for 20 years. I didn’t even think to do that calculation. It automatically did a bunch of these, apparently, and came back with the ones that it thought I thought were most interesting. So I took that back to my client. I said, Guys, let’s look at what we’re doing, fundamentally different on Instagram in that example, to figure out, are we messaging it differently? Are we hitting different customers? Is our demographics different?

It forced us to ask a whole nother slew of questions that was unparalleled. Right? So these sorts of examples, I want our community of fractional CMOs to be so far ahead that when the AI revolution which is taking us over right now, when it comes to the marketing world, there’s a there’s a guy, Sam Altman. He’s the CEO of Openai. Everybody’s heard of Sam Altman right? He. About a month ago he was quoted as saying that in about 10 years 95% of marketing agency work is going to be done with AI. Right? You have a choice. If you’re in the marketing.

Brynne Tillman: Would be sooner than that. I’m gonna give it 5.

Rajat Kapur: So let’s pretend grin that it doesn’t matter if he’s right on the percentage or the duration. Let’s just say he’s direct cause we can argue specifics all day long.

Brynne Tillman: I love it all right.

Rajat Kapur: It doesn’t matter right? So let’s just pretend he’s directly correct. You have a choice number one. You can fight him or number 2. You could get on board. So if you’re gonna find him good luck, you probably don’t belong in our community. You cannot afford to look for an actual CMO and good luck, or you can sort of say, Okay, if that’s what the future looks like. I want everybody in my sphere to be ahead of this trend to understand it. I liken it to this, Brynne, you might. I mean, you’re very young, but you might remember 1996, right? So in 1996, there was a group of marketers.

Brynne Tillman: I had a 6-year-old, and like.

Rajat Kapur: Yeah, there, you go! There you go! There you go!

Brynne Tillman: Not young, but thank you.

Rajat Kapur: The math doesn’t work there. No, I’m just kidding. So in 1996, there was a group of marketers that said, Hey, this Internet thing is really popular. And I think it’s gonna take over. And then there’s another group of marketers that we’re arguing about the font size that they’re using inside magazine ads or billboards. And history has just not been one and be the other right? So like, this is the way the future is gonna be, and we are choosing to have our people be ahead on that trend.

Brynne Tillman: So you know Bob Woods put out a post, he quoted. Someone. I just looked it up on the side. Nancy Henson from creativity business.com. I don’t even know who it is, but I love this quote in my speech on creativity and AI, my advice is, to figure out how AI may replace you, then shift and level up.

Rajat Kapur: That’s it. Hello!

Brynne Tillman: It’s like, Okay, this is where it’s gonna replace me. And now you make the shift and go to the next level. And I would look at that as how am I? Re? You know, before it’s like, Can I hire someone to outsource this work in some cases right? But in some of it. Now it’s like, well, this is part of my outsourced work. So the CMOs are leveraging this. By the way, when you are buying a fractional CMO and they’re using AI. You’re getting way more of their time.

Rajat Kapur: Absolutely, absolutely. That should be one of your hiring criteria. Do you use AI? How are you training yourself on AI? That would be a basic question in this day and age. That would be a base question that I would ask. I’ll give you another quote that I love to use. AI is not gonna replace you, but the person who does your job insert your title, the person who does your job with AI. That person’s gonna replace you.

Brynne Tillman: Oh!

Rajat Kapur: And I won’t replace you. But the person who’s using in your job with AI, that person’s gonna replace you. It’s true.

Brynne Tillman: Be the person who does your job with the AI and replace someone else.

Rajat Kapur: Yeah, well, maybe yeah. But at least at least don’t get replaced by somebody who’s using AI. That’s not gonna happen.

Brynne Tillman: That’s amazing. Oh, I love that! I love that! That’s.

Rajat Kapur: I wish I knew who said it because it wasn’t me, but I owed it. It struck me when you said that quote earlier.

Brynne Tillman: So I have 2 more questions. My last question is how important is it to know when you bring in a CMO like the niche market, or who you’re going after. And how does the CMO help you to figure out the right niche market? If you don’t know it.

Rajat Kapur: So you’re talking about. How do I? How important is it to have a CMO with that niche market experience or the CMO that’s gonna help you figure out the problem? Tell me, just.

Brynne Tillman: You’re out of the problem.

Rajat Kapur: Yeah. So I’m.

Brynne Tillman: Figure out where, like I can go into and teach you know fortune. 1,000 companies, you know, in my sales training, and I could go in, and we have a $97 a month program. And so who am I going after? Where am I putting my marketing spend? Where’s the biggest roi? What niche should we go after?

Rajat Kapur: Well, actually, maybe they’re both the same in the context that you’re asking a question. I think they’re both the same. Here’s what I would say. Industry experience doesn’t matter for a really good marketer until it matters, and then that’s all that matters. And here’s what I mean by that right? So I’ll pick 2 or 3 industries. Healthcare and consumer packaged goods are the ones that just come to mind. The fastest healthcare has so much nuance in terms of channels to market payment and regulatory and insurance that if a marketer doesn’t understand that, they’re coming into a very thorny problem.

You don’t want to teach them that if they’re fractions. You want somebody who’s already got that experience that’s gonna bring it in and hit the ground running and probably teach you a few things as well.

The other example is consumer package goods, right? You could never convince me that a senior-level marketer with great B, 2 B experience can come in and tell you how retail channels work, how Walmart works, and how whole foods work. I mean, those companies are such big influencers in that industry, understanding how channels work is just critically important. Right? So when you’re trying to do a specific something in your business, look for a fractional CMO with that exact experience who’s already been down that path.

Okay, now, if it’s not that if it’s not one of those industries, and maybe Fintech is also similar because there are a lot of regulations. If it’s not that, then you just look for generally transferable skills again. I’ll go back to who has already been down the path and helped you grow from wherever to wherever and how can you best do that? So that’s probably the best advice I would give you.

Brynne Tillman: And and can that Cmo. Help you find your niche or the.

Rajat Kapur: But that’s their job. Right? So I was, I’m sorry. Yeah. So that was the second part. I apologize. So their job is to help you figure out where your customers are, and if you’ve tried things, maybe what didn’t work, so they’ll go back and do a historical analysis of what campaigns you run, what work, what didn’t work? And then, through some sort of an assessment, they can figure out what tweaks to pull and where to go. That’s exactly what their typical job is.

Brynne Tillman: I love this so. My last question is, what question did I not ask you that I should have?

Rajat Kapur: Oh, I get you one. So typically, I get asked the question about what’s the difference between a fractional CMO and a marketing consultant. So I’ve done both jobs, right? So what’s the difference? Why, is this different than what we’ve already typically talked about? So I would say, maybe about 20%. It’s the same. It’s just semantics. And it really doesn’t matter. But 80%. It’s different because of one simple thing, a consultant by definition is that arm’s length away from the company.

Right? You are hiring this person to do a job, and they report to you a fractional Cmo. Should feel like a member of the C-suite. They belong there. They’re in your meetings. They’re in the weeds with you for a longer period of time. You don’t hire a consultant for a long period of time. You hire a consultant so they can do their job, bring their expertise, and go.

And so sometimes I’ll get into a conversation with our fractional Cmos or our prospects. Are you really looking for a consultant, or are you looking for a fractional CMO, sometimes we will take on consulting assignments, and we will say, Come in for 3 or 6 months. Do this job, do this project, and then get the heck out of there, and that’s absolutely okay. But the nuance there, I think, matters quite a bit in how the company views the entire engagement and their investment.

Brynne Tillman: I love that that’s fabulous. Well, I think you are filling an incredible gap in the marketplace. You’re doing it in a way that makes high-level, high-end, high-quality marketing, marketing, accessible for small businesses that didn’t think they could have that, you know they. And so I think it’s absolutely fantastic. So how can a small business or mid-sized business owner that’s looking to explore, whether consulting or a fractional CMO is right for them?

Rajat Kapur: Absolutely so. I’m not too hard to find, because I’m your student, right? So I’m all over, Linkedin. So it’s very easy to find. I’m sure you’ll put a link to my stuff, or you can just Google my name. And I pop up pretty quickly on Linkedin. So that’s the best way. I’m happy to take a DM. Just when you’re dming me. Please do what Brynne says, and remind me that you heard her through there, because I also get a lot of spam, and I filter through it. So please remind them that you introduced us. That would be great. And then number 2, you’re welcome to go to our website. That’s hyphen marketing Com A and B hyphen marketing com.

And I would love to hear from some people it’d it’d be awesome to have conversations. And just to be clear, even if you’re not sure if you need a fractional CMO if you’re sort of fractional curious. I’m very happy to talk to people, because quite often, quite often, they think they want a fractional CMO, and they really don’t. And well, I’ll be able to redirect them in the right direction, so I’ll.

Brynne Tillman: I’m hashtag fractional cure so great. Raj, I love the impact that you’re having on small businesses, I mean, and that’s truly it’s the impact. Right? You’re allowing businesses to grow faster than they ever could have before. This fractional option was out there. So thank you.

So everyone that’s listening. Thank you for coming. I am sure you had some great my mic. Drop moments as I did today. Make sure you reach out to Raj, and when you are out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social. Bye, guys.

Rajat Kapur: Thanks, Brynne.

Outro

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