Episode 306: Podcasting for Sales and Brand Growth

Intro

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

00:00:02.780 –> 00:00:15.129

Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to Making Sales Social. My guest today is Elzie Flenard. He is the host of the Journey to Mastery podcast and the mayor of Podcast Town.

00:00:15.860 –> 00:00:21.480

Brynne Tillman: Elzie helps companies, and brands increase, leads and brand awareness through podcasting. He’s also the best-selling, author of flame starter, the art of self-mastery. And I’m really excited to talk with Elzie today about how to use podcasts in our sales process. Elzie, welcome to the show.

00:00:39.430 –> 00:00:45.390

Elzie Flenard: Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited and ready to talk podcasting and social sales.

00:00:46.020 –> 00:00:54.040

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, me, too. So we ask all of our guests the first question, which is, What does making sales social mean to you?

00:00:54.760 –> 00:01:05.029

Elzie Flenard: So that’s a really great question. Because in this age of technology and AI and automation and shortcuts and all the stuff it’s so important to humanize sales and to humanize, how we interact with each other and humanize, how we build, foster nurture, and grow relationships. And so to me what that means is really not forgetting the human element to to be human both in our interactions online and in person.

00:01:28.740 –> 00:01:45.950

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, I love that. And the humanization with today’s AI world that I am obsessed with. And I love really, though, is taking some humanization out of it. So I love that making sales social is keeping that human part of the process.

00:01:46.782 –> 00:02:03.089

Brynne Tillman: So you know, if it’s okay, I want to start by asking you for a little bit of a journey to mastery from A A from the start to today, share with us your story behind that. Podcast? And what motivated you to take this path as a career?

00:02:03.710 –> 00:02:26.610

Elzie Flenard: So I’ll give you the 2-minute version it’s a very long story. But I was working my day job and trying to figure out a way to escape and do my thing full-time, and I kept hitting my head against the wall because I couldn’t get the side hustles to make enough money to quit my day job. So long story short, I figured that the best way to do that was to

00:02:26.620 –> 00:02:43.889

Elzie Flenard: Talk to people who have done what I am looking to do. So business owners. They figure something out. They’re running their business successfully, and so but I knew that I couldn’t just reach out Cole emailed them. And you know, say, Hey, business owner, can I pick your brain? That wasn’t gonna work.

00:02:43.890 –> 00:03:05.289

Elzie Flenard: So I decided to start a podcast and I would ask them all the questions that I wanted to know and selfishly brand. I didn’t care about anybody. Listen to the show. I literally just wanted to get the the information from these business owners, and so I would ask them, you know when you were in my position, what was what was this first step you took before you left your corporate job?

00:03:05.470 –> 00:03:12.549

Elzie Flenard: What did you do for sales? How did you get your messaging together for marketing operations? I would ask them all the questions.

00:03:12.610 –> 00:03:15.560

Elzie Flenard: And one day one of my guests said,” You know, Elzie if I were you, because I would give them some context on what I was trying to do.

00:03:20.560 –> 00:03:29.620

Elzie Flenard: They said, You know, I would help people start podcasts. You started this one. And you seem to be pretty, you know, pretty decent at it. So, I would help people start a podcast

00:03:29.760 –> 00:03:31.610

Elzie Flenard: And I thought huh! Cause that had never occurred to me. Didn’t have a plan. Didn’t have the strategy. I was just kind of doing it to learn.

00:03:37.230 –> 00:03:42.350

Elzie Flenard”: And so I took their advice and I started helping folks. You know, launch shows.  But in the process of brand, I really fell in love with the process of podcasting. It’s a very detail-oriented, very human relationship-driven medium.

00:03:58.350 –> 00:04:21.200

Elzie Flenard: And I just fell in love with the fact that I could. I could make friends. I could do business. I could help other businesses grow. I could highlight them, and I get to learn from them and learn business all at the same time, like sign me up. I love it so much. Enterprise now was, you know, rocking and rolling for several years, and then as most shows do. It grew to the point where

00:04:21.290 –> 00:04:25.760

Elzie Flenard: You know. Just like, well, does enterprise now really capture the heart and essence of what I’m about in this season of life? And the answer to that question was, No, it didn’t, and so the journey to mastery really speaks to where I am as a human, as a business owner I’m on a journey to mastery. I’m on a journey to master, not only myself but to master the game of business. And so that’s what we do. We talk to other entrepreneurs and business owners who are also on that journey, both personally and in the game of business.

00:04:55.080 –> 00:05:02.139

Brynne Tillman: So I, I love that. And I want to go deeper into the types of podcasts and how to use them for business development. But podcast town’s mayor. That’s also a podcast.

00:05:06.390 –> 00:05:23.469

Elzie Flenard”: So podcast down is an agency. So how does it work Brynne is, I have always recommended People have 2  media brands that supplement their main brand. And we can talk in more detail about that later. But the journey to mastery is my media, brand, and Podcast Town is my core brand. It’s the business that I run. So we help businesses launch grow, and maximize through through podcasting.

00:05:32.810 –> 00:05:35.170

Brynne Tillman: Got it. So, we’re a social sales link. But you’re on the show. As a of a different name, making sales social. Right? So that’s okay, I get it. So that’s that’s the tip.

00:05:48.320 –> 00:06:08.868

Brynne Tillman: So, that makes so much sense. So I’ve got quite a few questions lined up for you the first one I’m gonna start with is what I have learned, and then you tell me why this is important, or if I’m wrong, there are 2 major kinds of podcasts from a business perspective. There’s the interview. Podcast and then there’s the expertise. Podcast

00:06:09.190 –> 00:06:25.420

Brynne Tillman: So the interview, is you’re highlighting the other person which could be your prospect or referral partner. And then the expert side of things is where you are sharing your insights and growing your credibility with the marketplace. Did I get that right?

00:06:25.910 –> 00:06:27.400

Elzie Flenard: You’re not wrong.

00:06:27.690 –> 00:06:28.030

Brynne Tillman: Okay.

00:06:28.030 –> 00:06:30.250

Elzie Flenard: But I would. I believe that as the market continues to mature, we’re going to see other types of podcasts, especially for what we do. The B2B RAM,

00:06:40.850 –> 00:07:03.859

Elzie Flenard: There are murder mysteries and podcasts that are B2B. There are a lot of people who are doing solo shows. Now, kind of the Sme or this Me. Version. There is fiction. There’s nonfiction. There are all different types of formats, I think, on the horizon as B again as B 2 B continues to grow and mature as a genre.

00:07:03.860 –> 00:07:11.100

Elzie Flenard: So it’s actually pretty exciting. That, you know, there’s going to be more variety in the types of shows that people are producing.

00:07:12.050 –> 00:07:13.230

Brynne Tillman: Fun.  I’m not sure if you know Bob Berg’s the go-giver, but it’s a fable, right? but it’s a business fable right of learning how to move from being a go-getter to a go-giver, and it’s almost the Scrooge, The Christmas story right like that, that, you know. You go well, it’s a little bit different, but it’s the fable, and I never thought of that as a podcast but that’s cool. So you could have a different mystery. But around your business is that what you’re saying like around the core, your core business.

00:07:52.380 –> 00:08:17.079

Elzie Flenard: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And think about like, think about in the film, for example, when I’ll just use transformers for some reason that just popped into my mind. So when Optimus Prime is driving down the highway, they pan in and focus and zoom in on the brand of truck that he’s driving. Right? That’s a direct placement that people pay millions of dollars to have in a film.

00:08:17.080 –> 00:08:27.020

Elzie Flenard: So podcasting, I think in B2B is gonna be similar where there are opportunities both on video and audio, to really kind of zoom in on different brands as a part of the story that’s being told. And so it’s I think it’s really creative and innovative. But look out for it. You’re going to see more and more of it.

00:08:36.850 –> 00:08:46.309

Brynne Tillman: You have my wheels turning like, really, really turning, because what I see is, you take some of your real client success stories and make it like historical fiction. You don’t actually call them out because you can change it a little bit. And you can kinda update. I’m gonna start doing this. I think I am so.

00:08:58.230 –> 00:09:00.180

Elzie Flenard: Marked in inspiration.

00:09:00.830 –> 00:09:05.980

Brynne Tillman: I mean, really, that’s amazing. And you’re gonna get a whole different listener.

00:09:07.690 –> 00:09:30.339

Brynne Tillman: I’m gonna say, if you’re doing it for B, 2 B, just make sure it leads to your solution in some way like, or you’re just having fun with it, which I think is fun. I think that’s okay. So my next question to you is, how do you say? Alright? I’ve got this podcast I’m going to be interviewing these experts or whatever you, whichever route you decide to take.

00:09:30.390 –> 00:09:33.200

Brynne Tillman: And then you know, how do you first of all find and engage the right people the right people to be guests? Let’s start with that.

00:09:40.660 –> 00:10:08.983

Elzie Flenard: Yeah, I think it’s similar to When you’re starting a business, you figure out,  Where do my people hang out. for me it’s LinkedIn. My people are on Linkedin, and then you go where your people hang out and you add value. It’s like showing up to a birthday party. You don’t go into the party saying, Hey, everybody, look at me. I do this. Anybody wanna do business with me? You wanna do that? So you go in, and you are a human. You add value. 

00:10:09.550 –> 00:10:10.170

Brynne Tillman: Like the air.

00:10:10.170 –> 00:10:36.510

Elzie Flenard: You engage, you bring a gift and like, and then you build those relationships and then, over time, you identify who has the right? What I call vibe right? Who’s gonna give my audience value without holding back, and who is going to help build this community because podcasting is the community, and then you reach out? I found that the simpler, the better.

00:10:36.510 –> 00:10:54.620

Elzie Flenard: Long drawn out complicated outreach used to work, but doesn’t work anymore. Business owners are busy. I don’t. I’m not gonna read a 7 paragraph,  invite to a podcast I just, don’t have time. And so really, it’s just about knowing where your people hang out and what they don’t like.

00:10:54.630 –> 00:11:09.370

Elzie Flenard: And the best ways to reach out to them, and then you simply make the outreach. And what’ll happen over time is people will get wind of your show if you do a great job if you’re a great host, and they’ll tell other people about it, and so I  seldom have to go out and seek people to be on my show. You know, at this point we’re almost 8 years in. So we have, PR firms and referrals, and people are coming to us. And so it’s really just a matter of getting that foundation laid. And then the inquiries will come if you do it right.

00:11:30.530 –> 00:11:34.559

Brynne Tillman: So that that’s great. So now we’ve we’ve invited them. They show up. How do we decide what questions we’re gonna ask?

00:11:38.350 –> 00:11:46.509

Elzie Flenard: Yeah, I think, everything you do with your show has to be intentional and strategic. So, I always tell people to think about the journey from the time you send them that email or that message on Linkedin. What do you want them to feel? What do you want them to see? How do you want them to experience your brand? Right?

00:11:58.350 –> 00:12:02.700

Elzie Flenard: Then, once they say, Yes, what happens next? Is it a follow-up email? How do you want to engage them? Is it a video that describes what your podcast is about? What is that customer journey be very intentional and strategic about how you set that up.

00:12:17.760 –> 00:12:22.419

Elzie Flenard: Because if you do it well, You can expose them to what you do. who you are, who you serve. Why you do what you do all along the journey. But, before they even get on their podcast they already know all that stuff. And now you do not even need to focus on that. You can focus on the relationship. You can focus on asking questions that are going to get the most value to your audience.

00:12:45.150 –> 00:12:48.240

Brynne Tillman: I love that. You know. Often when I’m talking with someone about using when they’re using podcasting for prospecting right? So their purpose is not just to learn amazing insights from. But it’s also to identify challenges and gaps where they could come back and potentially sell. So what would you say to someone who needs to balance the 2? I’m doing this for prospecting. I’m interviewing my prospects, but I don’t wanna come off as salesy, but I also wanna kinda qualify them in this interview.

00:13:21.780 –> 00:13:32.470

Elzie Flenard: Yeah, I think to your point. And thanks for the lineup. It’s all in the questions that you ask and in your follow-up. Right? So I could say, Brynne, you know.

00:13:32.720 –> 00:13:56.639

Elzie Flenard: what do you love most about producing the podcast that you produce right? And you’ll tell me all this stuff. But if I say something like, Well, Brynne, what are some of the challenges that you’re facing as you produce your podcast? Those are very different questions. And they’re gonna give me very different answers, very different outcomes. Right? So they tell me very different things. So to your point. It’s all about the questions that you ask, and how you ask them in your follow-up.

00:13:57.270 –> 00:13:59.070

Brynne Tillman: So I love that. I’m going to go one deeper and throw out a modern-day question about podcasting, how do you feel about going to ChatGPT to help them formulate your questions?

00:14:12.610 –> 00:14:35.650

Elzie Flenard: I think it’s a great idea. I heard you say before how you know AI is a powerful medium. I think you have to embrace it. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon. It’s only gonna get worse or better, depending on what side of the equation you sit on, and so absolutely leverage it, you know, if I’m doing a show and so for some of my shows, I do a pre-interview.

00:14:36.094 –> 00:15:03.159

Elzie Flenard: And so I’ll absolutely plug that  Pre-interview into an AI system and pull out questions based on the pre-interview. Now, I’m not gonna just ask the questions blindly. Obviously, I’m gonna look at them. I’m gonna synthesize them and say, Okay, well, maybe if I add this here, or move this here and kind of make it my own. But yeah, absolutely. I think

00:15:03.160 –> 00:15:19.080

Elzie Flenard: You would be doing yourself a disservice if you didn’t take advantage of the technology that exists. You know, I wouldn’t lean 100% on it just because it’s not, it’s not human. And so again, you need that human element. But yeah, absolutely leverage it.

00:15:20.420 –> 00:15:21.290

Brynne Tillman: So, I’m a big fan, and I’m using Chech to start almost everything I do. But it ends up being somewhere between 20 and 30% correct what I land with and end with. And I thought it would be more like 80 to 90%.

00:15:36.520 –> 00:15:45.010

Brynne Tillman: But what I found is, it saves me. The blank paper stares like, where do I begin? And then it? And then you flow. Once it gets you going. So I love that.

00:15:52.240 –> 00:16:04.579

Elzie Flenard: Kind of goes back to your earlier point, where you know what you put in is what you get out. So, the better you get at asking the right questions, you know the better outputs that you get.

00:16:05.710 –> 00:16:13.300

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, perfect, perfect. So do you have any success Stories from, let’s say, either you or your client where doing a podcast interview turned into business?

00:16:17.560 –> 00:16:18.490

Elzie Flenard: Oh, man! It’s hard to think of this one so more recent one. I had a guest on my show. And we were talking about their journey to master. Because that’s that’s what the podcast was about. And we were we started talking about self-mastery, and how, as entrepreneurs and business owners.

00:16:44.520 –> 00:17:04.009

Elzie Flenard”: It’s oftentimes the last thing that we think about. We think about our team members, we think about our businesses, we think about our vendors, our cuts, like, we think about everybody and anything before we think about us. And we were just talking about how man, it would be really cool to have an environment or a community where we just focused on what we want, like, when you wake up in the morning as a CEO. How do you feel?

00:17:14.930 –> 00:17:41.300

Elzie Flenard: Are you sad? Are you angry? Are you upset? Are you? Do you wanna just quit like, how do you feel? And long story short, It ended up sparking. An idea in her, to start, a podcast. To launch a group of women that could get together and really focus on taking care of themselves. And so it’s that type of organic synergistic relationship that really works well. And now we already vibe because we had a great conversation on the show.

00:17:44.520 –> 00:18:08.170

Elzie Flenard: And so now, when we work together, it’s gonna flow so much better, because we’ve already gotten that part out of the way. We don’t have to necessarily learn each other from 0. We already kind of know each other. I kind of already know why she wants to start to show and kind of what she’s looking to build. And so it’s a really cool, organic way to do business because now the show is going to be a success because we’re on the same page. And we’re working toward the same goal.

00:18:15.040 –> 00:18:26.239

Brynne Tillman: That’s fantastic. I think that you know, we do a lot around prospect by interview, which could be ebooks or podcasts or live streams, or whatever it is. But its goal is to start trust-based conversations without being salesy. And that’s exactly what you’re talking about building that I love that I very then it. I feel very synergistic with your approach there, for sure.

00:18:40.360 –> 00:18:50.310

Brynne Tillman: Did you see any trends or predictions when you started? Actually, I probably answered this already in where the podcast is going, which is a little more fun and fictional. Anything else you want to add to that?

00:18:53.970 –> 00:18:59.849

Elzie Flenard: Yeah, I believe that the businesses are going to save podcasting, And what I mean by that is, there’s sort of 2 sides of the fence. There’s the Culture Society entertainment side where Mega downloads all the attention that stuff really matters.

00:19:14.570 –> 00:19:39.340

Elzie Flenard: Then there’s the business side where we want attention. Yes, we want downloads. Yes, we want likes, shares, and comments, but we want the right attention. We want the right downloads. We want the right likes, comments, shares, etc. So they’re very different games. There’s the Joe Rogan, and then there’s the business owner who wants to use relationships to build their business.

00:19:39.520 –> 00:19:42.320

Elzie Flenard: I believe that when we look 5 years out. there are going to be a lot of businesses that are leveraging podcasting to grow their business relationships. And I believe that we’re gonna hold up the industry. Just because professionalism is needed the the outcomes. And it’s very results-driven. Driven approach. I believe. B2B Podcasting is gonna continue to be a big deal.

00:20:10.600 –> 00:20:16.409

Brynne Tillman: So I’m gonna say, yes to that. But I also think one of the reasons that’s the case is this generation. They the got kids in college today. I have 2 of them. Right? So, this upcoming generation of disease, our podcast listeners. This is how they consume. I have a son. if his gift, I think for his birthday was, he wanted an iHeart radio like a paid subscription.

00:20:42.680 –> 00:20:49.310

Brynne Tillman: You’re 21. What do you want? Because, that’s where I listen to my, podcast. I’m like, what are you listening to, and he’s listening to all kinds of things, science things. What a mystery thing and all the Lord of the Rings things right? And so the reason I cannot agree with you more is that is the way this next professional experience, the next generation of professionals are podcast listeners, even though right now it’s only personal for them.

00:21:25.170 –> 00:21:34.199

Brynne Tillman: or primarily personal, that is the way they consume content as they move into the business world. I don’t see why that would change.

00:21:37.110 –> 00:21:50.069

Elzie Flenard: Yeah. And I think, too, one thing that I did mention is internal podcasting, I think, is gonna explode as well because as you look at larger organizations right? And you folks like your son who are coming into the workforce.

00:21:50.070 –> 00:22:10.669

Elzie Flenard: That is a fantastic way to cultivate culture and vision mission right through an internal podcast where the CEO, who they probably will never meet in person, can directly pour into their team members. I think that’s a very burgeoning area of the space.

00:22:11.230 –> 00:22:16.480

Brynne Tillman: So I’ve seen this once in a company. And I think it was a sap, but I’m not sure where they’re interviewing. Their employees. And so not only are you getting, I don’t think it’s the CEO, but a high-level C level. person interviewing the employees. That employee now feels important. You’re building stronger internal loyalty. You can cross-pollinate what each department is doing and what others. And so I love this. I could talk to you all day about this. But

I have 3 more questions. Yeah, the last question is advice for aspiring Podcasters.

00:22:54.890 –> 00:22:58.679

Elzie Flenard: My biggest piece of advice is always, always, always, always understand why you’re doing your podcast. Your business owner, then really understands which game you’re playing and plays that game. Well, I can’t speak. I can’t tell you enough, Brand, how many times I look at somebody’s website and the website looks fantastic.

00:23:14.410 –> 00:23:22.360

Elzie Flenard: It’s the copy is great. The, you know, graphics are great. And then they have a tab called podcast. And I click on that that tab. And then there’s a cover art with their podcast and some text and graphics. And then there’s a button that says, listen here.

00:23:31.030 –> 00:23:34.110

Elzie Flenard: So, I click that button, and it opens another page. After about 4 clicks, I finally get to the podcast and it sounds like they’re talking in a potato. And I say to myself, why would you not have a professional-sounding-looking branded podcast I have that con that consistent experience with your brand, so, in a business podcast Quality is important. I’m telling you from a person who noticed it.

00:24:05.740 –> 00:24:12.639

Elzie Flenard: Quality is important. So a quality. Show. I guess my point about that whole RAM for the other thing is consistency and playing the long game.

00:24:14.520 –> 00:24:26.640

Elzie Flenard: It’s popcorn, podcasting is, not a popcorn medium. You’re not gonna release the show. And then all of a sudden, a thousand clients are gonna come. That’s not the way it works most of the time. So sometimes it may be not for me.

00:24:27.004 –> 00:24:48.769

Elzie Flenard: So you have to be in it for the long haul. It has to be a part of your business development strategy, because then that places it in that place in your mind, and not a side thing or another thing to do. And then finally have fun. Make it different. Be yourself. Inject the human side of you and your brand into the show.

00:24:49.580 –> 00:24:56.600

Brynne Tillman: So that’s great advice. I love any particular microphone. I have a blue Yeti, and I love it.

00:24:57.662 –> 00:25:16.720

Elzie Flenard: I’ve heard the good things about the Blue Yeti. The microphone I’m using now is a pod mic. But the thing to know about this is, that it’s an Xlr, which means I have to have an audio interface that plugs into my computer. But you don’t need to do that. I know the SMB just released a new version, the Sm, 7 dB, that has a USB input so you can plug it right from the microphone right into your computer. And it’ll sound amazing. The economic version of that. There’s an audio Technica, 2,100 series. Slate less than 100 bucks. USB. Mic, I’ve you know, referred that to clients, and it works great.

00:25:39.747 –> 00:25:52.750

Brynne Tillman: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. So, I actually added an extra question in there, but my last, quite my second to last question is, what question did I not ask you that I should have? 

00:25:57.670 –> 00:25:59.319

Elzie Flenard: My favorite aspect of podcasting.

00:26:02.910 –> 00:26:05.710

Brynne Tillman: What is your favorite aspect of podcasting?

00:26:06.310 –> 00:26:15.639

Elzie Flenard: So the thing that I love mostly is that I’m an audio head. I grew up in music, singer, and songwriter since I was 5 years old. So, I love the art of story, the art of telling a story, the art of making people feel with words right, and I love watching somebody go from where they started to, where they are, to where they want to be.

00:26:35.130 –> 00:26:42.190

Elzie Flenard: And I get to be a part of that journey on both sides of the mic, both as a guest and as a host and as a producer, I get to help people go on that journey, and I’ve seen so many times people discover things about themselves or uncover things about themselves that they didn’t even know through the process of the and on that journey. And so that’s gotta be my favorite part, you know. Really, a close second is just the relationships that I get to build.

00:27:05.600 –> 00:27:21.350

Brynne Tillman: It’s amazing. You know I love when I talk with people that are doing this for the right reasons, and then the money is the extra bonus. So I’ll just love it. My last question is, if our listeners want to get in touch with you, how should they do that?

00:27:22.080 –> 00:27:31.509

Elzie Flenard: Easiest way. You can email me directly at [email protected]. And then I’m always on Linkedin. So those are the 2 easy, peasy ways to get me.

00:27:32.070 –> 00:27:39.800

Brynne Tillman: Wonderful. Well, thank you, and go follow. Elzie Flensrd, podcast. Follow him on Linkedin. Go watch his stuff. : And if you are exploring your own podcast he is the resource for you. And as we end this show, when you guys are out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro:

Thanks for watching and join us again for more special guest instructors, bringing you marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Hit the subscribe button below to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast give this video a thumbs up and comment down below on what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Play. Visit our website, socialsaleslink.com for more information.