Episode 308: Mastering the Sales Mindset, Skillset, and Social Selling Strategies

Intro

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show.

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Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I have Tom Laddery with us today. He is the owner of Sales 3 set and managing partner of M. 3. Learning

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Brynne Tillman: Tom. Welcome to the show.

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Tom Latourette: Oh, what a pleasure! Thank you so much, Brynne. Thanks for having me.

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Brynne Tillman: I’m really excited to talk about some of these topics that we have lined up today. But before we jump into them, we ask every one of our guests the same question, What does Making Sales Social mean to you?

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Tom Latourette: Boy, what a great question! So, first off, especially in today’s environment, right? I think you know, “social”. If you just think about the word itself it is really us, just connecting. It’s establishing a relationship. And what that looks like. You know, I hate to age myself, but I just celebrated my sixtieth birthday last week.

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Tom Latourette: That causes people, you know, that causes you to reflect a little bit right on what. And so what I think is so fascinating to me. The tools that I used when I was a young salesperson in my 20s while the tools have changed the fundamental pieces of making relationships and connecting with other human beings really haven’t changed at all in those, you know. 40 years that I’ve been doing this. But the tools have significantly changed. 

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Tom Latourette: And so, I find it’s easy to attach social selling to social media or things like that. But when I think about just us being social, it’s really, how I establish a relationship with somebody. How do I listen to them in a way that they feel, heard, they feel respected, they feel, listened to? And you know our belief is, if you do that well, you actually are guiding people to a solution they want instead of pushing them into a solution. Maybe that they’re you know you feed. I don’t wanna feed the stereotype of salespeople. I wanna speak for us to be seen as

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Tom Latourette: Strategic partners, consultants. And how do we operate like that? And so if I was to think about answering your question. Really, that’s the space of social means to me is, how do I become seen as a strategic partner that is actually connected or aligned with somebody in a really powerful way, so, I love that that’s fantastic.

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Brynne Tillman: Let’s dive into what I think is the foundation of all sales. And you talk about this, which is the sales mindset.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: So you know a lot of people go. That’s kind of woo-woo, and you know you could think about your philosophies and your mindset, but you know it’s in. It’s intangible, but I think it’s the foundation of any good salesperson. Talk to me a little bit about your perspective on mindset.

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Tom Latourette: Why, I couldn’t agree with you more. You know, there’s a great saying, and I’ve got to tell young adult children in that space of whether you believe you can or you believe you can’t. You’re right. And so there’s that space of you know, we many times we create our own realities.

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Tom Latourette: I wish I could teach my 20-year-old self what I think I know when I’m 60 right? But that space of what we believe, what we drive, the things that we fill our heads with, I think, are ultimately the things that create success or failure for us. I mean we can. You know there are some things in your life you can’t control.

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Tom Latourette: But, what are the things I can control mindset is one of those. I was having breakfast with a good friend of mine who is in the mine business. She actually maps senior executives’ brains and she shows senior executives what’s happening in their brains when they make decisions.

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Tom Latourette: And one of the comments we made, and I think you think about the brain is probably our biggest model. It’s probably the one muscle we do the least amount of exercise

monster. If I pull an attendant, I take care of that a lot of times. We don’t know that this muscle up here might need some fixing, might need a little bit of help you know!

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah, yeah, you. I lost the last 2 min so hold on. 1 s. We are on hold.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: I’m not sure who’s editing. If this is Jennifer Clarice. But we’re gonna just cut out the last pieces of mindset, and then we’re gonna have Tom finish the line again. Go ahead.

Okay. So, you know. kind of.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah, but actually, just kind of bring the mindset in for a landing, like, you know? Like, yeah. Hold tight. I’m gonna erase something here just to give me a little bit I think.

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Tom Latourette: Okay, you know, if you think about the brain as one of our largest muscles, I think it’s that space of how do we powerfully exercise that muscle? 

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Tom Latourette: And do we? How do we take care of that muscle? How do we make sure that we’re doing whatever reps we have to do to keep that muscle connected and keep it in great shape? And you know, sadly, I’ve been doing this long enough to know that most sales teams have the space where they practice.

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Tom Latourette: The space where they exercise their muscles. The field of play and you would not be successful if you did that in sports you wouldn’t be successful if you did that in life. And you know, we try to bring a focus on mindset skill set tool sets and think about, how do we as sales professionals today? Where do we practice, and how do we work with our teams to practice more before we’re in front of our customers or our prospects?

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Brynne Tillman: I love that one of the lines, we say often, is what we conceive. We can believe and are empowered to achieve.

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Tom Latourette: Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah, it’s because of it, is it? Really? You know, I mean, I just see so many examples of people who have every reason to say no, or say, I can never do this or this. I can’t hit this. I can’t succeed here, and then they do it.

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Tom Latourette: Because They just believe they can do it. And then that belief creates the spaces where they learn what they need to learn. They power through it.

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Tom Latourette: And before you know it. Maybe there, maybe initially, they’re faking it until they make it. But you don’t really know it until they get to that end spot and an endpoint. And you’re like, wow! They must have gotten lucky like, no, that wasn’t luck at all. They just created their own luck, you know.

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Brynne Tillman:  It’s interesting, you say. Fake it till you make it. I’m on a mission to end that.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah, yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: I think you know, we just show up with the goal of being of service to our prospects and our clients, and if we don’t know something. We just need to know how to go find it.

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Tom Latourette: I’m so it’s almost like this space of let’s preach authenticity instead of letting you know that space of hey? Listen, I don’t know the answer to it, but I know where I can get the answer. I commit to you that I’m gonna make that happen.

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Tom Latourette: And then, 12 hours later you come back with that answer all of a sudden. You show this is the type of person I am. This is the type of salesperson I’m going to be.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah, unfortunately, we’re in a world that keeps doubling down on the wrong. Instead, I think we just have to take responsibility, make it right, and figure it out. So it’s interesting. 

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Brynne Tillman: So, based on something you said, I’m gonna take a little turn, because if I recall and I don’t have it in front of me in your headline, in your LinkedIn profile. It was what I thought was a great prospect. The first date is close.

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Tom Latourette: Yes. Yeah. Okay.

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Brynne Tillman: Did I get that? Right? Okay? So, I hear this, then I hear this kind of playing out in what we just talked about around mindset. Right? It’s the dating mindset, too, right? So I don’t know. So talk to me just briefly about the prospect. The first day is close, and then we’ll move on to skillSet.

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Tom Latourette: That’s great. We actually do. I, I do. A program. And part of the program is we call it first dates, test drives, and wedding dresses.

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Tom Latourette: And so, if you were to think about the outcomes of a first date, most folks you go well, I need to determine if a second date makes sense. Now, a lot of people will go. Oh, well, I want to get a second date, and you go. Well, hold on.

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Tom Latourette: You know. Maybe you’re not compatible. And so the place. The real outcome is. how do I find out everything I can about the other person to determine if a second date makes sense for both of us?

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Tom Latourette: And then the only way to achieve that objective is, I have to learn everything I can about the other person. So, if I started a first date by saying, Hey, Brennan, how are you doing, boy? It’s so great! Thanks. So much for coming to Cafe Ladder.

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Tom Latourette: I’ve been on a lot of dates. I’ve dated a lot of women in my lifetime, and I know that there are 4 things you’re looking for. You’re looking for a guy who’s got it up here in his head. You’re looking for a guy who’s here emotionally connected. You’re looking for a guy who’s physically fit. You’re looking for a guy who’s financially secure.

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Tom Latourette: So, let me spend the next 45 min showing you all of my transcripts and my grammar School High School. My wardle scores, you know. Oh, my gosh! I’m killing it in Wordle, right? And then physically fit. You only gotta look at the body by mcrib here to know that I take care of this temple, whatever, and bring out the statues. And typically if we’re doing this in a program, I’ll go.

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Tom Latourette: I’ll go whole in 10 minutes of just stupid, crazy stuff, right? And the question I ask. How successful was it? And of course, everybody’s like, Oh, my gosh! You’re not gonna make it to appetizer, you know, the safety call is gonna come on.

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Tom Latourette: But then I challenge most salespeople. I go great. This is a crazy example. But show me your introductory slide deck. It’s the same thing. Let me tell you how many years we’ve been in business. Here’s our executive team.

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Brynne Tillman: These dated people just like you.

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Tom Latourette: Exactly. And there’s a map slide. Everybody’s got a map slide. Here are all our locations. It’s gorgeous.

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Brynne Tillman: For all the restaurants. I’ve taken women out too.

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Tom Latourette: Right. We would never do that in a personal relationship. But we start business relationships all the time like that.

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Brynne Tillman: Genius loves it. And so It’s just so tangible you got. I get it, I get it. So let’s move into a skill set, which I actually think is the most teachable in sales. Yeah.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: You agree with that.

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Tom Latourette: Oh, I agree. And I think what’s interesting Brynne is.  You’ll hear this. Oh, salespeople are born. And as I’ve learned just in myself. I’ve seen just the spaces where my strengths are definitely seen as a weakness depending on who I’m talking to. Right and my awareness of that

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Tom Latourette: And saying, Okay, what are the skill sets I can develop to communicate more effectively, more efficiently with somebody who maybe isn’t wired? The way that I’m wired and those I’ve found that are skills that I’ve actually been able to acquire as long as I’ve focused on learning them right as long as I shifted my mindset to go. Okay.

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Tom Latourette: That’s something I’ve gotta get better at. And way too many people go. Nope.

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Tom Latourette: Well, maybe the client should listen to me, hey? Maybe they should read me, I don’t understand why they’re not answering my emails or they didn’t answer. My phone calls, you know.

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Brynne Tillman: You know it’s funny the line that I hear a lot from our new clients are. If they only understood how much value I could bring to them. So I said, Stop, I stop telling them how much value you can bring to them and bring them value.

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Tom Latourette: Unbelievable.

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Brynne Tillman: You earn the right to get the call.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah, right? Or do a better job of understanding what their definition of value is. Right.

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Brynne Tillman: Bingo, that’s yeah.

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Tom Latourette: And so don’t assume, you know, we walk into that conversation, assuming that oh because it worked here because it was good here they’re gonna love that. But no, really, the only person who knows what’s important to them from a value standpoint is that other person across the desk or over the phone right? And so our job is, how do we find that out? How do we ask great questions? How do we uncover that information?

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Tom Latourette: But it’s a skill set. It’s definitely I don’t think most of us are raised like that. And, in fact, if you were to look at the onboarding of most salespeople their first 2 or 3 weeks are oh, let me show you why we’re great. Let me show you what we do. Let me show you. And so we’ve been taught all this great stuff about the company we work for. And we just wanna share that with people. So we’re doing our best. We just don’t know what it’s like.

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Tom Latourette: Take a deep breath. Let me ask you a question or 2.

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Brynne Tillman: No, I think that’s that, spot on it. Instead of sharing the content we want them to know about, share the content they want to consume. Let’s start from there. And really value your point. Value is in the eye of the consumer.

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Tom Latourette: I know this happened to me. I’m sure it’s happened to you when you watch a salesperson deliver a presentation, and oh, let me show you this, and let me show you this. The client looks at the Oh, wow! Tell me more about that. Yeah, yeah, I’ll get back to that. But let me show you these other 5 things and be like oh, stop it.

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Tom Latourette: Stop it! They told you what was important to them. Dive into that really.

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Brynne Tillman: You had an agenda. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right?

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Brynne Tillman: Right. You don’t get paid for following the agenda.

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Tom Latourette: Exactly.

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Brynne Tillman: So I love that. So any key whether it’s from the leadership perspective or from the producer’s perspective on how to make sure that they are focusing on the right skill set.

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Tom Latourette: Well, it’s a great question. One of the things that we teach is the concept of communicating both above and below the line. And so when you think about most organizations.

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Tom Latourette: There are certain folks that we talk to, we work with that are concerned about features and benefits they’re all about, how do I use your stuff? How do I employ it? Maybe I’ve gotta look good for my boss. My boss has given me a budget. Here’s how you can operate within this budget.

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Tom Latourette: Most salespeople are really good in that conversation. But, now there’s this above-the-line conversation. There’s a VP, an executive VP, and maybe even a senior C-level person. They’re worried about different things. How are you going to increase my revenue? Decrease my cost? How are you going to increase my market share or my market size?

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Tom Latourette: And so we see too many salespeople. They only learn one language instead of becoming multilingual in both of those languages, and These folks are above the line. One of the things we say is, that people don’t. In fact, all people don’t want to be educated. They want to be validated.

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Tom Latourette: And that’s more so above the line, but definitely on both sides is, if I come in well, let me tell you how great all of this is instead of What do you need? What are you looking for? What’s your goal? What do you need to fix? When? How do I validate what you’re already thinking about? Our belief is that’s a skill set that you can get.

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Tom Latourette: You can understand validation. If you can hear the client say that, speak it. That’s where the energy is. That’s where the client’s energy is, and that’s you, you’re now just along for the ride. Do you become a consultant or a strategic partner that just guides them to a better solution?

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Tom Latourette: Did I answer that question or not?

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Brynne Tillman: I was fabulous. You more than answered that question. Thank you. So yeah. And I think there’s probably this overlap between the skill set and toolset.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: So yeah. I’m separating it out, based on the question. But talk about the right tools for salespeople. And when the stack is too big, and it breaks, and like just right, like what is a successful tool stack for sales?

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Tom Latourette: Maybe that’s it.

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Brynne Tillman: Question.

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Tom Latourette: Well, one, I mean, it’s a thing like the answer is so tremendous right? And so we see it, I’m sure, in the organizations you work with, too. Let’s give them all these tools. Let’s give this to this, this, this, and I don’t understand why they’re not using it. It’s in the repository. It’s in the deck, I and and salespeople will use one or 2 that they trust.

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Tom Latourette: And there’s a space so mean. The first thing is, that I think most salespeople will use the tools that work for them.

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Tom Latourette: They will. The ones that actually move somebody from stage one to stage, 2, stage 3 to stage 4. But I also think most organizations haven’t really done a good job of observing the use of those tools in a sales call and seeing what?

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Tom Latourette: What moves that you know? How are my a players using these tools to create opportunities? How are they using these tools to actually close opportunities or deals?

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Tom Latourette: You know, too many times we, as leaders, come to the space as well, this is the way I sold, so I don’t understand why my team doesn’t do it the same way.

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Tom Latourette: So I don’t know if that answers your question, but you know it brings me back to the founder of our company, this guy by the name of Skip Miller. I hired Skip 20 years ago. I had 50 salespeople, 5 regional managers, and Skip’s first question. He’s working with me and my 5 regional managers.

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Tom Latourette: He goes. Who’s your best salesperson? We go. Oh, that’s rich! Rich! Was our number one salesperson. 3 years in a row. He goes great. Why is it rich? Your best salesperson. We go well, the rich sell the most. That’s what he does. He goes okay. Great. I get it. I get it. How do you know Rich is gonna hit his goal next year? We always hit his goal. We don’t have to worry about Rich hitting his goal or not

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Tom Latourette: Goes great. Let me ask you probably the most important question, though, what’s rich doing today right now? What questions is he asking? What tools is he using? What’s he doing today to drive sales for his goal? 

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Tom Latourette: 9 months from now, 12 months from now? And we couldn’t answer that question. We were spending our time telling our team what they should do, and not observing our players actually using those tools.

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Tom Latourette: Observing how well they were using it, and if I don’t know that as a leader I can’t replicate. I can’t hire 2. I can’t coach the rest of my team on how to use those. And so

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Tom Latourette: And so think it’ That’s a long answer to your question. But I think it’s really this space of awareness of why I’m using the tool. An awareness of what impact that tool has on me. And then You know, I’m gonna use the tools that actually get the job done?

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Tom Latourette: Does that make sense?

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah, no, that’s great. I’m gonna go back to the beginning of the sale, which is what I think is the hardest part of the sale, which is prospecting.

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Tom Latourette: I agree.

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Brynne Tillman: Talk a little bit about your perspective.

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Tom Latourette: Well again. You know there are statistics today that show. If I’m trying to generate a first call with somebody who doesn’t know me, it can take me somewhere between 15 and 25 touches to make that happen. And I think that’s it.

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Tom Latourette: You know, in today’s world that’s crazy. But That’s why we get sequencing and cadences. And you know, all of a sudden. Okay, 2 days from now, I’m gonna send you this email. And 2 days from now. I’m gonna tell you this story in 3 days. And so we’re trying to break through the clutter right?

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Tom Latourette: I’m a firm believer that, if I can figure out a way to connect to you through somebody that I know or you know, or if I can get introduced to that person. I’ve significantly cut that down. Maybe it’s as little as 2 to 4 touches, you know. And so the first place we look at when we’re working with somebody to prospect is to get better at understanding who’s in your network. Who are the people who know people in my network who are connected to the people that I need to talk to and touch base with, there are a lot of connections that if you just facilitated that all of a sudden you could have a lot of power.

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Tom Latourette: I’m a big storyteller, and so one of the stories I love to share is, that we were doing some work with military veterans transitioning into the workforce. We wanted to talk to Fortune, 100 companies that had diversity, equity, and inclusion. Military arm.

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Tom Latourette: I did some research. I found out that Andy Baker is the person who’s responsible for travelers. Insurance, military diversity, equity, inclusion. Now, Andy’s connected to my next-door neighbor, Scott Fister Scott’s an IT guy at Google, and I would never have sold Scott anything. 

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Tom Latourette: But, I took a LinkedIn class that said, Hey, you should connect with everybody, you know, because you never know who they know, I reached out to Scott. Scott,How well do you know Andy Baker? Oh, we worked together 8 years ago at Hewitt.

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Tom Latourette: He’s a great guy, I said. Hey, I’m going to reach out to him. I don’t even know if you know what I’m doing. But here’s what I do. Do you mind if I use your name? He goes. No, tell him that I still think he’s a weak-hitting third-baseman. We played on the same softball team.

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Tom Latourette: The subject, Brynne, the subject line on my email was Scott Fisher says you’re a wee kidding third basement

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Tom Latourette: The question I ask salespeople is, how long do you think it took me to have a cup of coffee with Andy Baker? He replied. Within An hour we had coffee for 2 days now. How long would it have taken me to have a cup of coffee with Andy Baker if I didn’t know that he and Scott played softball together.

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Tom Latourette: I think that’s the space for salespeople. Powerful value is, how do I take a look at how I get in front of how I get connected to? How do I?

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah, be.

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Tom Latourette: Yeah, people in my network to help me make that happen. Does that make sense?

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Brynne Tillman: More than makes sense. We call it mapping out your social proximity.

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Tom Latourette: I love it. Yeah, right?

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Brynne Tillman: So who do you know that knows who you want to know? And how do you leverage those relationships to start trust-based conversations without being salesy?

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Tom Latourette: Love it.

00:24:00.175 –> 00:24:18.699

Brynne Tillman: So so on, Linkedin, you can do that. You have the ability to search and filter your connections, connections to see who it is that knows who you’re looking to have a conversation with. So you can scale what you’re recommending. And yeah, absolutely, very, very.

00:24:18.700 –> 00:24:21.270

Tom Latourette: Why do I still talk to sales? People are like, I don’t. Should I be on Linkedin? I’m like, Oh, my gosh! I mean it’s a. It’s a tool, a free tool, That lets you map these types of conversations.

00:24:31.870 –> 00:24:36.880

Brynne Tillman: Yeah, yeah, it’s absolutely amazing. Well, I have very much enjoyed this.

00:24:36.880 –> 00:24:38.529

Tom Latourette: Perfect. Great. Thank you. Brandy.

00:24:38.530 –> 00:24:41.370

Brynne Tillman: Brought a lot of insights to our audience. I have 2 more questions. The second to last question is, what question did I not ask you that I should have?

00:24:49.170 –> 00:24:54.059

Tom Latourette: I thought we had a really great robust conversation. I don’t know if I would have. We could, have spent, we, you and I, I can tell we could. We could talk for another hour and a half, so that

00:25:00.700 –> 00:25:06.220

Brynne Tillman: Yeah. Well, then, I will ask the last question, which is, how can people get a hold of you?

00:25:06.520 –> 00:25:26.379

Tom Latourette: So we are at. So the first space is probably the best place. M. 3. learning.com. I’m also on Linkedin, easy to find on Linkedin Tom Ladderay, LATO. URUT. E. Love to connect. Learn as much as I can. I’m a big networker. I love to help folks first.

00:25:26.630 –> 00:25:32.719

Tom Latourette: and then figure out a way that I can, you know, help them either with introductions or resources next. So.

00:25:33.270 –> 00:25:46.079

Brynne Tillman: Well, I love this, and I thank you. Make sure you reach out to Tom what a valuable resource you are! Thank you so much, and for all the listeners when you are out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

00:25:47.100 –> 00:25:47.480

Tom Latourette: Thanks. Paul.

Outro:

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