Episode 310: The Power of Connection in Sales

Intro

Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. Enjoy the show!

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Brynne Tillman: Welcome back to making sales social. I am very excited to interview Christy Jones today. She’s like a real-life friend, and we’ve done lots of events together around women’s sales, experts, and lots of other things.

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Brynne Tillman: But  I’m excited to talk to her today as she’s the author of Selling Your Way In, and she’s the principal of the sales acceleration group, and really just an incredible B2B. Sas-genius when it comes to coaching folks on how to sell. Better. So welcome to the program.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Thanks, friend, happy to be here.

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Brynne Tillman: Oh, so excited! So, as you know, we ask all of our guests. The first question is, What does making sales social mean to you?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I think it’s about connection and an opportunity to build trust. Ha! You know, be authentic. And so I think those are the, you know like you get a little window into people’s lives right when you snoop around. I call it stalking when you stock. When you stock them on social you get, you know you feel like you know them right a little bit, and I think that can help make that connection that much stronger.

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Brynne Tillman: I love that. That’s great. It’s a simple answer. But it’s true, right? Like that. Getting to know someone on social makes that connection in real life so much stronger. So that’s awesome. So you know, you’ve had an interesting journey in sales. Talk a little bit about that.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah, I’ve been. Yeah. I definitely been the gamut. I say, my first sales job is still my favorite to this day which was waiting tables.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I love that so much because of instant gratification and instant feedback. Right? So you go. You have a table. The table gets cleared, and your tip is right. Your tip is lying there, and you’re like, Okay, thumbs up, middle down, like you know exactly how it went. I mean, there’s always people that are, you know, a little more conservative with their tipping. But in general, I was competing with myself every shift every day, loved it so much.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I went from 6 years of doing that. So 2 years in high school and 4 years in college to write out a college being in retail sales. So I was a sales manager in a department store that ran 2 commission departments, cosmetics, and shoes, and I did that for a couple of years before going down to the buying office and becoming a buyer. So that side of things. So that was my corporate America. That was my fortune. 500 corporate America life.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I got disenchanted with that world. About at about the 8-year mark, and so left that, and literally went from that to a company with fewer than 20 employees. Again. I’m so old, Brynne, that we didn’t call it Saas back. Then we called it the subscription model.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: It was an e-learning company, learning and development. So I spent 10 years there, and that’s really where I learned about B2B sas, being sales manager of commissioned reps selling in the B2B world. So I really cut my teeth there. And at some point after that, I fell in love with VC-backed companies. So I got the VC- Backed bug, as I say, and then, 8 years ago, I started my own consultancy,

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”:  And I’m calling it helping one too many. So instead of just helping one company and one sales team. I’m normally helping somewhere between 3 and 5 at any given time, and I love that every day is a different day for me.

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Brynne Tillman: That’s great. And I love how much of an impact you’re having on multiple companies. It’s so important. So why did you decide to move from corporate, I know you’re like I was over it. But where you moved into really being an entrepreneur, your own business like what? What sparked that?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I got fired. That’s the truth. I’m very open about that. That doesn’t bother me to say that. But no, I mean, like the world works in mysterious ways, and the universe conspired to make this happen. But I was what? I went through a reorganization and my company and I had been reporting up through the sales umbrella. I was managing a team of 13 Sdrs.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And they decided to reorg and put that under the marketing umbrella, which again was a great place for it, and someplace actually, that I wanted it to be. Unfortunately for me, the marketing department was out of Phoenix Arizona, not Saint Louis, Missouri, and so we went through a reorg. So I stayed around. They were again like we parted as friends. I stayed around for 3 months and order to transition to Arizona

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And keep the engine going and the boat afloat if you will, and as I truly was not looking to be an entrepreneur I was looking for my next VP. Of sales gig.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And a lot of just very interesting. Ha! Things happened literally within that 3 month period of time, and before I knew it, with some Vc. Connections, some introductions from general partners at Vcs to early-stage startups. And the next thing I know, it was the riding was on the wall, like, I’m gonna be consulting for startups like it just was happening. It was happening. And you can’t. You know, I say, when the universe conspires to have these things happen. You just need to get on the boat.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah. So I love that I do. Now, Selling Your Way In. That’s really about kind of getting well getting in the door right which most people will say to you is one of the hardest parts of sales. Some people say it’s overcoming objections or closing, but I really think it’s getting your foot in the door, so tell me a little bit about selling your selling your way, which is the title of your book and the challenges it solves.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah, I didn’t want to write a how-to book. I think there are plenty of sales how-to books out there. So I’m calling this a personal development book for sales professionals.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And really, what I wanted to do is talk to sales professionals about using the world of sales to sell their way into a life that they may not have today, even if they’re in sales. And so it talks a lot about honing your skills and getting to the top 10%. You know of your coworkers and your competitors. I say in the book.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: But really, I think a lot of reasons why people are not getting to the top 10% or maximizing their income have to do with the fact that they pick the wrong sales role for them.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And, because a majority of us are accidental salespeople, we never intended to do that right. There are only a hundred universities throughout the United States that even offer sales as a major or a certificate. And so, you know, I jokingly say, like, you know, you’re sitting around the Thanksgiving table before you’re getting ready to graduate from college. And Uncle Bob’s like, what do you think you’re gonna do with yourself after college? Right? You’re like, I don’t know you should go into insurance sales.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And the next thing you know, you’re an insurance salesman. Right? And so you’re looking into that. And so I honestly think that the reason why people struggle, and the reason why, you know the majority of sales professionals across the world are not hitting quota is that they don’t know themselves well enough, or even their options to pick the right sales role for them. I think they, you know, I say, that we’re not being proactive about career. We’re either again, Uncle Bob, at the you know the Thanksgiving table is pushing us in a direction, or a recruiter calls and says, you know, boy, do we have the perfect role for you?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And it’s so funny because we would never do that like when we’re outbound prospecting, we know who our ideal customer profile is. We know who our persona is. We know what problems we saw, we know all of that. And yet we don’t handle our career. In the same way, we’re very reactive about our careers and not proactive. And so I wrote a book to help people figure out like, you know? Should I? Am I a hunter or a farmer?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Should I be an inside sales or outside sales? Should I be selling a product or service? So I say that people are the majority. People, I think, are in the wrong role, meaning they’re selling the wrong thing in the wrong industry, and working for the wrong company. Perhaps even the wrong boss.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And even in the wrong sales role. So I don’t think people really understand maybe all of the options. And unless they’re in a larger company, you can kinda see what the umbrella looks like. But even then I don’t think sales leaders are mentoring in a way that says, Hey, like, I think sales, you know, solution, consultant or sales engineer. You’re very technical. Maybe that’s a better path for you I don’t think we’re doing enough help with career pathing and helping people figure that out. So I wrote a book.

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Brynne Tillman: That’s awesome. So this is a great book for sales leaders to read primarily to help them, serve their team better, ultimately serving the client better. So, I think that’s fantastic. I love that I heard you say, becoming into that top 10% of your coworkers or your competitors. Was that talk a little bit about what that means? How do we do that?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah. I say the work to get to the top doesn’t actually happen at work. And true, the top 10 percenters understand that. So let’s just let’s just put on the table that, like sales skills are just table stakes, right? So you know, I always use this example. I’m like Susan sitting next to Tina. 

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Susan’s listening to everything, Tina saying. And Susan saying what Tina’s saying. But Susan’s not in the top 10% like Tina, and she doesn’t understand why. What she doesn’t understand is what Tina is doing outside of work.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: When I asked this interview question, tell me 3 things that you do, consistently regardless of the job role or the company you’re working for. You believe if you do these things, you will be successful.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And top 10 percenters will say the following. I’m at the gym every morning at 6. I have a meditation or a spiritual practice. I have an accountability partner.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Turn off the TV and don’t watch “The Bachelor” so I can read a business book.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: You know, I put my phone down for 2 hours every day so I can be present with my family. I’m getting 8 hours of sleep. I care about what I put in my body. And so I don’t think that people understand that you know,  of the Fortune 500 CEOs across our country, the majority of them exercise, and the majority of those who do do it. At 5 or 6 am right? They start their morning that way. It’s no it’s no surprise that the most successful people in the world.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: You know, are taking care of their body and understand the mind, body connection and that connection to success. And so when I talk about the top 10 percenters, I don’t think 

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Susan and Tina like. I don’t think they’re talking about that right? Over the water cooler. I think people don’t understand It’s the intangibles, those types of things that if you look at the most successful people in any industry doing anything that you know, those things are at play for them.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah. And that’s why, you know, you always hear the best salespeople are athletes.

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Brynne Tillman: It kind of fits right into there. They’ve got grit. They work through the pain. They’re team players, they have to think about other people above themselves in order to succeed. I have my son on the crew at Rutgers. And so I’m like, you know, this is setting you up for success.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: That’s right.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Absolutely.

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Brynne Tillman: And I’m like he’s up at 5 30 to be on the water at 6, 15 every day.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”:  That’s Discipline, too. Right? That’s discipline.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: It is. That’s a huge part of sales is being disciplined.

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Brynne Tillman: Yeah. So I love hearing that right? That makes me happy.

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Brynne Tillman: So you know. I wanna go back to something that you said about being in the right seat on the bus kind of thing.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah.

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Brynne Tillman: So, let’s say we have a sales leader who’s listening now, and they’re like, you know, I’ve got a couple of great people on my team. They’re very average, but they work really hard and they’re committed. How does a sales leader go about it? First of all, identifying the right seat on the bus, and having kind of that conversation.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah, I think. First and foremost, I’ve said this for a while. We can’t motivate the unmotivated. We can only inspire the self-motivated.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: So first and foremost, that’s the question I would ask the sales leader to ask themselves about the individuals that are maybe performing, you know, in the middle. Because, if they’re not self-motivated, there’s probably nothing you can do about that right? We can’t change that. That’s a that’s a trait, by the way, as opposed to anything else. So traits are set by the time you’re 10. And so, if you’re not ambitious by the time you’re 10, if you’re not disciplined. If you’re not, you know, compassionate, if you’re not humble, if those are traits.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And so, I really believe it goes kind of to those types of things. I think we don’t talk enough about that. I’ve done a lot of work and research on the difference between, you know, skills and characteristics and traits. And we wanna interview and hire for traits because they think they’re already there. They’re not going anywhere.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And so I think the other thing is like, what do people really love? You know, when I ask people, one of the keynotes I give is, you know, identifying and leveraging your superpower to get you to leverage that success. And so people are like, how do I determine my superpower? And I’m like, what is it that people come and ask you for advice about?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: What is it that seems to be easy for you, but hard for others? You know. What are the other people compliment you on like you’re great at that? What do you love doing? What would you be doing if you weren’t being paid kind of things? And so I think the sales leaders can ask those types of questions. You know,  I say, I go way back. If I think about my sales superpower is questioning, but my general, my universal superpower generosity.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And if I go back in time, I was the teenager that every girl came to when they were upset at their parents going through a breakup with their boyfriend. I called it cry with Christy. The phone lines were open every night from 7 to 8, you know. So I’ve been giving advice and helping people figure things out for a long time like again. Those traits were set pretty early on that. I have. You know this ability to kind of see the forest from the trees, and understand where the forest fire is, and then, you know, provide water.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: So you know. But you have to understand. I think those are some of the things that I think leaders can ask their people. I ask this question every time I’m like, What is your sales superpower? I wanna know if people know that I asked the sales leader. The same thing. I ask.  I asked a candidate yesterday, what is your sales Superpower?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And, you need it like the top 10 percenters do this. They know it. Right? Others are like, Well, what do you mean?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And I’m like, Oh, you don’t know your superpower, which means if you don’t know your superpower, you can’t use it for good, to put you in a position to get to the twelfth.

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Brynne Tillman: Oh, I love that. That’s a mic drop right there. That’s amazing. You talk a lot about how salespeople can kind of own their own income and create the life they want. How would they go about even starting in that world and that way? To think that way?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Yeah, I think 2 things. One is, that you have to put yourself in the right position. Right? That’s that right role selling the right thing in the right industry with the right company and the right leader. And that’s also being proactive about your career. So not having a job, but having a career, and you determining what your next step is. So I call them, step changes. And so I truly believe that those people who are in the top 10% know when to leave and where to go.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And so that’s not when the recruiter calls you right? That’s reactive. That’s not taking control of your career. That means you’re probably not gonna get the top 10 because you don’t know what you’re missing. And I use this example from myself.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I want to know. There was a particular company in the learning industry in the e-learning industry that I was desperate, desperate to work for. I just thought they were the creme de la Crumb.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I lost a job because I didn’t have any international sales leadership experience. And that was a box I hadn’t checked. And so I took a job that actually wasn’t a good fit for me. But I was gonna be given Canada, maybe not a Mia, maybe not Apec. But you know, like a different country.

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Brynne Tillman: So international.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: You know they speak French up there. There’s some French going on. So I took the job. That wasn’t a perfect fit for me because I wanted to check that box because I didn’t want that to ever happen to me again, and I only stayed 10 months. And it again. It was a VC-backed company, but it was outside of the Saas space. And so that’s the other thing like, so that that story has, like, you know, 2 morals to it, one. I got the check, the box I needed, but I also knew really early on that I had made a mistake.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And I was in and out of there in 10 months. I knew I’d made a mistake. I started to again get proactive about fixing the mistake I had made before it was gonna be too late. And so the next, you know, I immediately started my search back into the Sas world.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And so that’s the other thing you know, I say, that’s probably the only career mistake I’ve made along the way is that one? But again, I’m high. I have a high self-awareness. And I knew I had made a mistake.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And I was like, Okay, like, it is what it is. Now, let’s get out of it. Right? And so, understanding where you should be, and then understanding when you should go, and not because the recruiter called because you’re like, I checked the boxes at this job through this role, selling this product, selling this service in this industry. Now, I need to

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Sell at the Enterprise level. Now, I need to sell a service, not a product. Now, I need to sell what boxes need to be checked for you to get to where you need and where you want to be in your career, where you can own your own income because 10 top 10 percenters. They get to set their base salary. They get to negotiate things like commission and bonuses, you know, and they get to pick their territory, those types of things. So like you wanna set yourself up for that. But you have to take responsibility for your career.

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Brynne Tillman: It’s really powerful.

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Brynne Tillman: So my second to last question is, what question should I, vet? I have asked you that I didn’t.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: You should ask me this. I’m gonna give you my passion topic right now. You should ask me,  What are sales leaders doing? That’s a disservice to their sales team currently.

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Brynne Tillman: Oh, that’s great! So, Christy, what are sales leaders doing that’s a disservice to their team?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: We have stopped teaching the art of sales in lieu of the science of sales. And so here’s what’s going to happen. I’m gonna give you the disaster in the making.  So sales soft skills training is not just really not happening much anymore. We’re relying on bots and AI automation data. And I’m not saying that the science of sales is a bad idea. I’m saying we have swung the pendulum too far to the science of sales. 

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: And we’re gonna lose the art of sales. Why, that terrifies me is in the world that I live in the B2B Sas world. We love to promote the top sales, rep to sales, leader, and if we have not trained properly,

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: The sales professional, the individual contributor who then becomes a sales leader very quickly. We’re gonna be in trouble because they’re not gonna be qualified to train their sales professionals, their individual contributors, their team. And The art of sale sales is so critical, like, even without the data, if you have good sales, soft skills.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Then you could still be a top 10 percenter even without the data. And so I think, that’s the topic I’m kind of getting a little bit on a bandwagon about. Because…

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Brynne Tillman: Like a little Ted talk in there.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: Oh! Oh!

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Brynne Tillman: That’s very cool. Okay? So my last question is, I can’t believe how fast this one is. How can people get in touch with you?

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: I would love for them to connect with me on Linkedin and share their one takeaway from our conversation today if they’d like to learn more about the book- Selling Your Way In. It’s it’s just as easy as Selling Your Way In.com.

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Kristie Jones – Author “Selling Your Way IN”: So those are the 2 things I would love for them to do. I’d love for them to check out the book and go to Selling Your Way, Andcom, and I’d love for them to connect, and then tell me their one takeaway from our conversation today.

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Brynne Tillman: I love this. Thank you so much. I know that our listeners are going to be blown away by the really usable implementable tips that you gave, which are strategic. Right? Really high-level way to start to think about things. So thank you so much.  And for all our listeners when you’re out and about. Don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro

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