Episode 330: Orchestrating Success: Leadership Lessons from a Conductor

Intro

0:00:18 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests teach their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Welcome to the show.

0:01:28 – (Brynne Tillman): Welcome back to making sales social. I’m very excited for our guest today, Hugh Ballou, who works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction through dramatically increasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning teams. During his 40 years as a musical conductor, Hugh uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills, creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture.

0:02:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Hugh, welcome to the show.

0:02:22 – (Hugh Ballou): Brynne, I’m so happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

0:02:25 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, I’m very excited. I’m a Broadway goer, first of all. So anything with an orchestra makes me very happy. But I’m also in sales training and with LinkedIn and sales training, and I recognize how very important each role is inside of the sales organization and how it’s the sales leader or the conductor that really sets the pace. I’m really excited to dive into your experience and really grab some insights that our sales leadership can really learn from.

0:03:03 – (Brynne Tillman): But before I do that, I have one question to ask that we ask all of our guests, which is, what does making sales social mean to you?

0:03:14 – (Hugh Ballou): Leadership. Sales, generating revenue. No matter if you’re running a nonprofit, a multinational corporation, or you’re an independent contractor selling for a company, it’s based on relationships. And, you know, the conductor is perceived to be a dictator. Well, you got a little white stick, and you got a bunch of very skilled union musicians. You can’t make them do anything, but you can influence them.

0:03:39 – (Hugh Ballou): So we build relationships with people, and we provide value to people. So sales is basically providing value and building relationships. So people trust us and they buy from us.

0:03:51 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. And you know that people do business and refer people they know like, and trust comes from one of my very favorite authors. Are you familiar with Bob Berg? With the go-giver?

0:04:02 – (Hugh Ballou): Yep.

0:04:03 – (Brynne Tillman): So that actually came from his first book, which was endless referrals. So it’s absolutely. You are speaking my language on many roads there. So, you know, you’ve spent 40 years plus as a musical conductor, and you’ve now brought the things that you’ve learned and experienced into businesses, helping leadership really grow. Talk to me a little bit about why was being a conductor the right skillset to really transition into what you’re doing today.

0:04:44 – (Hugh Ballou): It’s not a power, a position. It’s the place of influence. Leaders, especially today, when we really can’t have power over people who are independent thinking, we’re in a very divisive culture. So leader’s job is to focus on the value proposition. And so as a conductor, I worked in churches, I worked in community orchestras, and community choruses. The power of persuasion is important. You must have a strong value proposition, and there must be a win-win.

0:05:16 – (Hugh Ballou): So whether we’re a nonprofit, selling somebody on the idea of joining the board, we’re selling somebody the idea of donating, or whether we have a product or service, and we’re selling it to somebody, it’s got to be the right match for what they need. And so listening is a really good skill that a conductor has. And a good salesperson listens not only with their ears but with their eyes. They pay attention. It’s active listening.

0:05:43 – (Hugh Ballou): So when we understand what that person needs, we can address that.

0:05:48 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s great. So talk to me a little bit about when you were conducting, how you built that, the culture where you are emphasizing the brilliance of each individual player while making them all work aligned and synthesized. So talk a little bit about that, and then how that really plays into how you’re helping other teams, sales teams, or business teams align in a similar way.

0:06:23 – (Hugh Ballou): We call it ensemble. It’s a drama company. It’s an orchestra, it’s a choir. We create an ensemble. Now, my business is centered on vision. It’s creating the synergy around the vision. So the leader, no matter where you are in an organization, and very rarely is the salesperson at the top. But the salesperson relates to everybody internally. Externally. So it’s the influencer. So if we’re clear on our vision, we’re clear on the results, and we have a roadmap.

0:06:56 – (Hugh Ballou): So behind me is a picture of me conducting an orchestra. On the music stand is the score. Everything that happens is written down, and every person in the choir, in the orchestra has their version. So the equivalent in a business or any kind of nonprofit is business to any kind of business is you’ve got the strategy, okay? You excel from the strategic plan, and the marketing plan, and then you can create a sales funnel out of that marketing plan. A whole process, whatever our objectives, who has a role. So if we have a bunch of people, and really everybody in the organization adds impact to what you’re selling because you’re selling the brand promise, you’re selling the results. You’re not selling a product service, you’re selling the results.

0:07:38 – (Hugh Ballou): So I’m a leadership coach. I sell, I don’t sell leadership. I sell results. I tell people, okay, you can do what you intend to do if you apply the skills that you know, yet know you have. So what is the value of what we’re offering people? How is it going to improve their lives? So when, and especially, I worked with lots of volunteers. So that’s, that’s a real upsell, you know, how do you commit time and talent to this?

0:08:03 – (Hugh Ballou): And because you love it. So what is the value proposition? What’s the benefit, and what are the results of that benefit for the person who makes a decision, that’s a. And then if we have people responsible for other people in our organization, if we’re a sales leader, then we have the roadmap. Everybody has their assignments. And when you have the time and you say go, they know exactly what they’re supposed to do. And moreover, we know how to measure the results because we’ve created that roadmap with specific objectives.

0:08:39 – (Brynne Tillman): One of the things that you just said that really resonates, and I’m sure I’m going to ruminate over it for a while because I love that, is when we say go, they’re completely ready. So there’s all this work beforehand that that conductor needs to put in, which is identifying all the strengths, all the gaps, and making sure that everyone is on their own score, that they have their own plan so that when we say go, we are all aligned.

0:09:11 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. We talk a lot about whale hunting, right? Going after the large companies and how they are. It grows all the time. 6.8 decision-makers in every complex sale, which also means that there are probably 6810 people inside of your company where you have to get really aligned in order to go after those big accounts. So I love what you’re saying. It really resonates. It’s really actually very strong positioning.

0:09:44 – (Hugh Ballou): Yeah. On top of that, just to piggyback on what you said, everybody is responsible for their role. They’re part of that action plan. But the synergy part is how we function together because we’re independent, but we’re also interdependent, and we don’t realize how our actions interface with other people in the organization. So one person functions below the line. It impacts everybody else.

0:10:08 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that there is a book by Barbara Weaver Smith called Whale Hunters, and it’s the story of the Inuit tribe in, I think it’s in either. I think Alaska may be up, you know, the Eskimo tribe and how the entire community comes together to kill one whale a year, that feeds in, clothes, and oils their entire community for the whole year. So when I hear what you’re saying, I mean, I’m bringing in this community perspective, how the community, your company, the community, and your company come together for really one goal, which I love.

0:10:50 – (Brynne Tillman): Right. And so you’ve got my brain going.

0:10:54 – (Hugh Ballou): Which, you know, it’s the leader’s job to clearly define what that objective is and specify that goal. Here’s what it looks like when we’ve arrived. And, you know, I find very few leaders that can do that, build the vision.

0:11:08 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s interesting. So do you help companies articulate that vision?

0:11:13 – (Hugh Ballou): Absolutely. And moreover, how do we create this excellence, this culture of high performance? How do we orchestrate success? Because we have really skilled people and we don’t really know how to tap into all of that skill. They don’t either. But if we are very clear about we’re not going to do it, but we’re going to empower others. Transformational leadership is what I champion, and it’s about championing the vision as leaders. We don’t do it. We don’t micromanage, but we help people.

0:11:45 – (Hugh Ballou): We don’t micromanage. We mentor people. We create the vision, and we elevate people in the culture to perform at a higher level. So it’s a win-win for everybody.

0:11:55 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh, gosh, this is great. Like, this is a conversation that I, you know, I’ve had in bits and pieces. So, like, I’ve had it with the flutes and I’ve had it with the trumpets and I. But you’re finally, like, kind of bringing this picture together, and it’s a wonderful way to imagine what your company can look like when you have a good conductor. So I love that you talk a little bit about the four leadership principles.

0:12:23 – (Brynne Tillman): Can you share what those are and why those are the four foundational pieces in creating this aligned leadership, this aligned community inside your company?

0:12:34 – (Hugh Ballou): Absolutely. And no matter where you lead, no matter where you are in the organization or what type of organization, if you can master my four principles, you can raise the bar on your performance. And like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you do your business. So you always work on yourself so you never reach a plateau. Number one is, when I step on the podium to do a rehearsal or concert, I know the score. I know what is in that plan. So it’s the foundation. Know where you’re going, know how you’re gonna get there, and have the skillset to do it. So that’s foundation number two.

0:13:09 – (Hugh Ballou): I surround myself with the best people. I hire the best people from my orchestras. It’s relationships building and maintaining relationships. So we’ve set the goals. We’ve laid the vision down. We have really capable people. The third one is about systems. We rehearse the best ensembles in the world. Rehearse for every performance. We don’t do that in business. We just continue to go at it and make mistakes, and we build in the flaws. So we rehearse for success with systems. And, Brynne, I bet you’ve been to a boring, unproductive meeting.

0:13:45 – (Hugh Ballou): So who hasn’t? And that’s an example of how we build in low performance, and we don’t do anything about it. So conductors must have an effective conducting routine because that impacts our performance. And in business, that costs money. And the fourth one makes the rest of them work. It’s value. The rests. Rests in music are not the absence of sound. It’s a punctuation. So in our lives, it’s a balance piece. If we’re working all the time, if we’re burned out, we’re not any good to the organization.

0:14:17 – (Hugh Ballou): So plan, put on your calendar. Time to think, time to reflect, time to evaluate, time to rest, time to play. Balance your life. And when you’re working, you’ll be much better at it. Foundations, relationships, systems, and balance.

0:14:34 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. A long time ago, years ago, when my boys were little. They’re 21 now, but I was writing my first book. I was putting it together, and I was just sitting at the kitchen table just thinking, and one of them came up to me and said, Mom, what are you doing? I said, I’m working. And they laughed. They’re like, you’re not working. I’m like, I’m doing my best work right now. And so I love it. Right? Like, I love. I love that because of those rests, those periods of thinking.

0:15:09 – (Brynne Tillman): So anyway, I wrote my book in my head before it went down on paper, and those rests and those thinking times were some of my best work. So thank you for that. So, you know, a lot of leaders, they face these challenges wherever I, you know, they’ve got a decent team. Maybe they have a great product, but when it really comes to having that synergistic approach where they’re all kind of working toward the same goal, they struggle. Right.

0:15:44 – (Brynne Tillman): Their challenges in bringing that team together harmoniously is difficult. What would you suggest as the first step? So maybe someone’s listening today and they’re saying, you know, I love this idea of working as one, right, of really coming together instead of competing with each other. Let’s put on a magnificent show, right, for our clients. And what’s the one thing that they need to do first when they recognize that their players are all soloists?

0:16:20 – (Hugh Ballou): Stop telling people what to do. Never answer questions, ask good questions. Listen to the results. So, for instance, I do a coaching clinic, for leaders and corporations. So typically, they’re burned out. People keep coming to me, and I keep answering. They keep coming back. Well, yes. And then they say, it didn’t work. Well, it was your answer, not their answer. I said, isn’t it better to ask them, how do you think you’d solve it and then coach them through that?

0:16:46 – (Hugh Ballou): So we over function, and they under function. Now, if they create an answer, they’re thinking they’re able to create more answers. And you know what? They own it, number one. Number two, they’re going to. They’re going to be behind it because it was their answer, and they know you’re behind it. So as a group, we want to sell the group on the idea. Okay, yes. Here’s our vision. But we don’t say, do this, do this, do this. We say, okay, here’s the end result.

0:17:12 – (Hugh Ballou): Then you ask the group to weigh in on how we’re going to accomplish it, whether it’s one person or several. Now, as they work together and they brainstorm and you put those ideas together, and then you say, okay, here are the ones I like. You never lose your ability to choose which are the right ideas, but they’ve been a part of it. And in that process, they’ve come together as an ensemble because they’ve talked about it, they’ve worked on it and they brainstormed together.

0:17:37 – (Hugh Ballou): So we’re creating that rehearsal like a musical rehearsal where people are doing stuff together and they’re coming to a response. And the critical piece here is it’s not an up or down majority vote, it’s building consensus where everybody can buy in. It’s a very different paradigm and it’s very strong. To learn how to build consensus, learn how to let the team do their part. You still get the final say, but what if you coach them to it and you don’t ever have to use veto power?

0:18:07 – (Hugh Ballou): They own it and they’re going to do it. And the accountability goes from you being the mommy or daddy to them having peer-to-peer accountability for each other. And that builds a lot of energy.

0:18:19 – (Brynne Tillman): That is really brilliant. I think one of the big. Throughout my corporate career, one of my biggest frustrations was that I had great ideas, but nobody would listen. I had to stick to my lane. I think what you’re putting forward not only creates that camaraderie and that commitment, but when you empower your team to be part of the solution and they own it, I think you have much better production. Like, they’re thrilled to implement what they were part of creating. So kudos to all of those things.

0:19:03 – (Brynne Tillman): So my last question, or really my second to last question, but is what question did I not ask you today that I should have?

0:19:11 – (Hugh Ballou): I think you really covered it really well. The most important thing I want to go back and reemphasize is we never stop working on ourselves and we never work alone. So this is the question, how do you stay at the top of your game? You either have a mastermind group of peers, or my mastermind group is better than me. So if you’re the best person in your mastermind group, get another group. Come on. So you want to stretch yourself, have a mastermind group, and then you’re equal. Each person gets the time off, here’s the problem, how do we solve it together?

0:19:48 – (Hugh Ballou): So there’s some synergy in that. And if you look in any field, an actor, performer, athlete, conductor, the best people in every field have a coach. They have somebody that helps them find their blind spots and helps them fine-tune what they can’t see themselves. So it’s just the wannabes that are going to figure it out themselves. It’s the excellent people. And some of them have multiple coaches for different aspects. So have a coach, have a mastermind group, and certainly be open-minded.

0:20:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, I mean, that’s why I joined the C suite network where we met because first of all, I love that I’m probably one of the dumbest people in the room. I learn every time I show up with so much, and I hope that I bring some value to others as well. But yeah, like, I was in search of that for a very long time. And then I get to meet amazing people like you. So what a big win. That’s awesome. So where can people find you if they’re like, man, Huge, this was like, awesome. And I really want to talk to you about how to align my team.

0:20:56 – (Brynne Tillman): How do they get in touch with you?

0:20:57 – (Hugh Ballou): If you want to know about me, go to about hugh.com. how easy. About hue.com. there’s, there’s an article on Forbes about what a conductor knows about leadership. There are the podcasts I have. There’s a free program called “31 Days Becoming a Better Leader”. It’s all on there about hugh.com.

0:21:18 – (Brynne Tillman): Wonderful. And then I noticed you have a calendar, Hugh, calendar.com as well, if people want to schedule time to chat.

0:21:27 – (Hugh Ballou): Yep.

0:21:28 – (Brynne Tillman): All right. Well, I thank you, thank you, thank you for your incredible insights. I knew this was going to be good. I didn’t realize how good, and this was really good. And I know that our listeners will have gotten an enormous amount of value. So I thank you for your time and your amazing openness to share insights that can really have an impact. Any last words before we head out?

0:21:52 – (Hugh Ballou): No. Thank you. You’re a very good interviewer, and it was so much fun. Thank you, thank you.

0:21:56 – (Brynne Tillman): Love having you. And so for everyone, when you are out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

0:22:03 – (Bob Woods): Don’t miss an episode. Visit socialsaleslink.com podcast. Leave a review down below. Tell us what you think, what you learned, and what you want to hear from us. Next. Register for free [email protected]. you can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Play. Visit our website, socialsaleselesslink.com for more information.

Outro:

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