Episode 400: Permission-Based Selling on LinkedIn

Intro

0:00:18 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, me, and Bob Woods as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests teach their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Welcome to the show.

00:00:46:20 – (Bob Woods): Hello. Greetings. Salutations. All of that other fun stuff. And thanks for joining us for this latest episode of Making Sales Social Live. Coming to you from the social sales like Virtual Studios and brought to you by Ask SSL dot AI. If you’re watching us live right now, the QR code will point you directly there. I’m Bob Woods, Stan Robinson Jr is off today.

00:01:18:07 – (Bob Woods): I’m joined now by Brynne Tillman. How are you doing, Brynne?

00:01:20:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Hello my friend. I am doing well. 

00:01:15:07 – (Bob Woods): Good. Excellent. Always glad to hear that. So cold calling in sales. It’s a topic that always brings out a lot of, well, let’s just say feelings. Feelings for those who are discussing it. Some love it, others, you know, not so much.

00:01:42:07 – (Bob Woods): And obviously some fall in between. So if you’re struggling with cold calling, though, there’s an alternative permission based messaging. It eliminates the pushiness that’s kind of seen with by some with cold calling. It doesn’t share more sales conversations with higher quality prospects.

00:02:02:07 – (Bob Woods): Now, I personally know people who use cold calling are successful with it, and as a result, loved doing it. And that’s fine. Would never, never talk against it for those people. Here’s the thing though. Permission based messaging can actually compliment cold calling, even if cold calling is working for you. And in fact, we did a study on cold outreach versus permission based messaging, rather on LinkedIn and got some interesting results. I remember this study brand, and I know that you do too, because you talk a lot about it. And I think it’s actually really good to bring up at this point.

00:02:39:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. So, we actually did this during Covid. So it’s older now. Yeah. Maybe we should think about running it again. I’d be curious, but we sent out 101st degree connections, a link to really great content, and we did it through Smart Links, which is a sales navigator, incredible tool. And, 19 people of 100 click through. And Bob and I were like, that’s pretty awesome. To get 19% click through rate. And then we did another hundred randomly where we asked permission to send the link.

00:03:21:43 – (Brynne Tillman): And of those folks, 68 asked for the link and 59 clicked through. So here’s what this looked like. Bob, we recently posted a blog on XYZ topic and as someone who runs a software product and in charge of your chief product officer, I thought you might get some value from X, Y, and Z.

00:03:50:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Here are some of the takeaways. If you’re interested, let me know. I’m happy to send you a link. So here’s what we think happens. And we can’t completely, this is I guess this is our theory on why. Number one, if we send the link, they have it, they can come back to it and click through later. So they may be interested, but not now and then.

00:04:14:43 – (Brynne Tillman): They’ll forget anyway and never click. But they have it, so there’s no worry about whether or not they can access that. We asked permission. I think we create three things. Number one, you’re honoring their inbox. People do feel like if there is an automatic link sent that it’s probably spam,

00:04:37:07 – (Bob Woods): Right.

00:04:38:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Right. So when we ask permission, truly, from the depths of my soul, believe that we are honoring their inbox and they don’t feel like by asking if they’re interested, they don’t feel spammed. Number two, there’s this FOMO. If I don’t ask for it, I’m never going to get it. So I might as well say, sure, send it my way.

00:05:04:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Or yeah, I’d be interested in learning more. So that’s number two. Number three. And I think, you know, this is really important when we think about sending content or not sending content is it helps us to qualify in or out people that have interest in that content.

00:05:25:43 – (Brynne Tillman): If we and and it will start a conversation with them. Right. If they say yes or no. Either answers great. Either answer or no answer on that also means it’s not a priority. When you send the link, you never know if it’s a priority or if it’s interesting to them. So I really believe that the permission based prospecting on all accounts.

00:05:55:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Has a huge impact. I want to go down the route. I’ll also push it. I’ll toss it back to you, Bob. But I also want to go permission based in all of our outreach and our client referrals and our networking partners, how do we switch from how can you introduce me to. Yeah, to being permission based, but I’ll throw it back to you and then throw back to you and you’re ready.

00:06:20:07 – (Bob Woods): Yeah, so actually, that kind of dovetails perfectly into what it takes for permission, permission based messaging, permission based sales, whatever you want to call it takes three things. We think, mindset tactics and a rejection of automation and everything that Brynne just said, I think specifically speaks to mindset. So because you’re shifting your approach from immediate solutions, getting that immediate hit off of things which you may or may not get because, again, you don’t know if it’s good timing for them to providing genuine value.

00:07:01:07 – (Bob Woods): So, you know, obviously you shouldn’t call them a cold call on LinkedIn. People still do it. You really shouldn’t do it. You have to detach what they’re worth to you. Meeting the prospect and embrace what you can offer them, how you can be of service to them. And this again comes from mindset. And part of that mindset is with the service that you provide to them.

00:07:26:07 – (Bob Woods): They may not necessarily need right now. They may need it down the road. They probably will need it down the road, but you just may not be hitting them at directly the right time. So gaining that permission to have that messaging with them, that then sparks a conversation that, you know, hopefully if things go right, you’ll end up selling because we are here to sell as well, don’t you.

00:07:51:07 – (Bob Woods): Don’t ever forget that. But, you know, wouldn’t you rather talk to someone who is interested and who you’ve already provided value to because you had value to give to them rather than being the and and I always go to this and and it’s a little unfair. Realize it. But yet when people think of cold calling, this is what they think of, you know, the finger snap.

00:08:14:07 – (Bob Woods): But you know, hey, let’s make a deal. You know that type of person. I personally don’t want to be that person. I think a lot of people out there don’t want to be that person. 

00:08:25:43 – (Brynne Tillman): Most of the wrong vibe from the person. 

00:08:26:07 – (Bob Woods): Yeah, right. Yeah. Exactly. 

00:08:30:01 – (Brynne Tillman): So if I could kind of work off of that because I think that this is really important. Right. So obviously there’s two sides is the permission base is really important. But the value that you’re sending is really important. But here is what I see happening.

00:08:43:01 – (Brynne Tillman): The cold calling is fast prospecting right I want to get 

00:08:51:07 – (Bob Woods): numbers 

00:08:52:01 – (Brynne Tillman): number game right. I want to get to as many people as possible. And when you have that fast prospecting mindset, we want to send the link and then hope and pray people click through. When it comes to LinkedIn, I am a bigger fan of the slower process acting, pacing it. I’d rather you bring value and not be seen as spamming and be seen as a resource and bringing value. And so this goes to we need to slow down our outreach to speed up the outcome.

00:09:24:01 – (Brynne Tillman): So while it may be two steps instead of one where you could send 100 people the link, but if you’re doing two steps, you send 100 people permission to get the link, and only 69 actually get the link. There’s 69 that asked for it. And of the 69, the fact that 58 of them actually clicked through. Now we’ve got, I think, more qualified prospects. Right.

00:09:53:01 – (Brynne Tillman): And exactly what Bob’s saying. Maybe they don’t need it now. Maybe they want to ask for it. But, you know, the people that do are the ones that we really want to start this conversation with.

00:10:05:01 – (Brynne Tillman): So yeah, that permission based is huge across the charts. So if I can just kind of go into the next concept. Yeah, absolutely. Which is permission. So we teach deeply that the huge value inside of LinkedIn is the ability to search and filter your connections. So I can look at my I can map out my social proximity to stakeholders, people that I want to have conversations with.

00:10:39:01 – (Brynne Tillman): So here is unfortunately what so many people do. And I get these all the time. Hey Brynne, I see you’re connected to Joe. Can you make an introduction? And I may not even remember Joe. I may not even remember the person that’s asking you for the introduction. And that is not even though you think I’m asking you a favor.

00:10:59:01 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s not permission based. So how do we slow this down? Hey, Bob, I’m not sure if you recall, but we connected back in 1873 now. But you can look by the way, and see what date you connect with someone on LinkedIn. So if you’re not sure how you remember them or you’re not sure when you connected, you’re sending notes.

00:11:23:01 – (Brynne Tillman): You’ll know in your messaging. But you can look at contact information and go to the bottom. You can see the date. So I don’t know what our date is, but it was a really really really long time ago. So Bob, I’m not sure if you recall, but we connected back in 2012. I happen to notice that you are connected to a couple of people that I’m looking to get in front of.

00:11:44:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Could I run these names by you and get your insights before I reach out? So what did I do? Right? The first thing is, I’m not sure. If you recall, I’m giving you permission to not remember me. That’s huge. Right? Because immediately that takes the pressure off of going, who the heck is this person to oh, it’s okay that I don’t remember this person.

00:12:10:01 – (Brynne Tillman): So I, you know, that that comes off. I’m not sure if you recall, but we connected that. Now, sometimes I will say one of the ways I use LinkedIn is Zions is you know, is using my social proximity and who knows who I know. And they noticed you’re connected to 1 or 2 people. I don’t even give the name a couple of people on LinkedIn that I’m going to be reaching out to in the next couple days.

00:12:37:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Before I do, can I quickly run these names by you and get your thoughts? So that’s the first level of permission. If you respond to that now, we could go into paths. They could say, sure, who is it? Or I could say, would you have five minutes for a quick phone call and I could talk through some of these names, or I could send the names and but when I send the names, I’ll say, Bob, thank you so much.

00:13:02:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Here are the four people you’re connected to that I’m going to be reaching out to. This is why. This is the value I could bring for them. I’m curious, how well do you know them? Two they get back with two. These two? These are great. They’d be great. Also, when I reach out, should I tell them you said hello?

00:13:22:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Yes. That’s slower. Yes. Let it. But you’re coming in. Have that much higher level of credibility. You’re coming in with incredible value, right? Because your shared connection said that you should talk. So here’s the message. Bob, Stan and I were chatting on LinkedIn the other day. I had mentioned the X, Y, and Z. He thought they should reach out.

00:13:51:01 – (Brynne Tillman): By the way, he says hello, let’s connect and I can fill you in if you want to go one step further with permission. If you’d like to learn a little bit about what we were discussing, let’s connect. And I’m happy to loop you in or and this is all permission based. You know, I’d love to connect and share what we were chatting about.

00:14:16:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Feel free to visit my profile and if you think it makes sense, let’s connect. All of that is giving the a lot of sales. Traders will argue with this because it’s giving the power back to them. And most sales traders will say you have to keep the power, but when someone feels too early in the process that you are trying to control the conversation, they will often reject that conversation.

00:14:47:01 – (Brynne Tillman): But if you were giving them power to make a decision, they’re much more likely to want to have that conversation. Okay, that was my read. 

00:15:01:07 – (Bob Woods): Could not agree more especially because this will get us into our third point. And actually Bruce Kirk has a perfect way to get us there. People are more willing to buy someone, buy from someone who has given value, especially when that value is given with permission. So I could not agree with that more. It’s all about giving value and what is probably the. Besides cold calling the the least valuable way of

00:15:29:07 – (Bob Woods): Conversing with someone is through automation. Because you ain’t even there. It’s the automation doing it for you. How do you think it feels to get automation? In fact, Brynne has a really good story about that that I may have to remind her of because it’s been a while since 

00:15:47:01 – (Brynne Tillman): I have a lot.

00:15:48:07 – (Bob Woods): Yeah. You know, about. Oh, yeah, definitely. So automation has all kinds of pitfalls.

00:15:55:07 – (Bob Woods): It might be tempting to let the tools handle it, but it’s a really, really perilous path because it’s automated. Everyone knows when they’re being automated too, for lack of a better phrase. They know it’s not you. We’re trying to build relationships, we’re trying to build value.

00:16:15:07 – (Bob Woods): And while you may be able to send, you know, like links and things like that that have value in them, value also comes from just being present, I believe. And with automation you are not present. Add into that the fact that LinkedIn hates automation.

00:16:33:07 – (Bob Woods): It’s against their user agreement you can get kicked off for because you use automation and all that stuff.

00:16:40:07 – (Bob Woods): It should be just a nonstarter. But at the same time, it’s not a nonstarter for a lot of people because I continue to get messages. I know that Brynne continues to get messages. So genuine messages sent from you stand out because people can get the authentic you from those messages.

00:17:04:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Is there a particular situation I talked about that you’re referring? 

00:17:07:07 – (Bob Woods): Yeah. There was one where you were going back and forth with automation and then and and then later on in the conversation, the guy comes and says, okay, now you’ve really got me. 

00:17:20:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh my gosh. Yeah. So yeah, I have a few, but that one, first of all, the automation seemed pretty good, which was even worse. Right. Like in the beginning. So there was, you know, there was back and forth, in a conversation where I had a little bit of interest, but maybe the third or fourth in I said something and the automation was off. So it didn’t understand what I said. So I said this, this automation. And then the guy came in and he goes, yeah, it was, but now you’ve got me.

00:18:00:00 – (Brynne Tillman): And I had absolutely no interest at all. Now in working with someone. He started it off with all my. 

00:18:11:07 – (Bob Woods): Yeah. 

00:18:12:00 – (Brynne Tillman): And that’s how I felt like it started off with a lie. Now do I love chat bots. I love all of that stuff. As long as it’s clear. Like if I go to a website and now I’m having a conversation, I don’t want the picture of a human being to come up and pretend that it’s a person.

00:18:30:01 – (Brynne Tillman): But if it’s I’m, you know, social sales links chat bot, I’m happy to have a conversation knowing in all, you know, all transparency that I’m talking to. I’m thrilled at that. Don’t lie to me. And that’s what I feel like automation is. Here’s another situation. Someone in our industry in the sales training industry anyway, that I had interviewed for our podcast,

00:19:00:01 – (Brynne Tillman): spent a half hour with him. We had great rapport. I really liked him. We’re in a couple of groups together and then within a couple of weeks I get a message that says, it’s been a while since we last connected, and I’d love to catch up and find out what you’re up to and share what I’m up to. So I said jokingly, your sense of timing is interesting.

00:19:30:01 – (Brynne Tillman): It’s only been about two weeks and then I winked. And then it said, I’m so glad you’re interested in talking. Here’s a link to my calendar. Lost all credibility. All credibility. So I know we’re talking about permission based, but this is important when we’re talking about permission based is really about showing up authentically. I know that word is now overused, but with full transparency.

00:19:58:01 – (Brynne Tillman): And so automation is a no go. Yeah. So it’s giving power to the prospect. Yes. But more importantly, it’s about honoring the decision making abilities of your I love that. 

00:20:25:07 – (Bob Woods): So yeah. 

00:20:26:01 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. So going back to what I said earlier, you’re handing power back to them, but you’re honoring the decision making rights or abilities of your buyer. I love that so much. So let’s just go back to the permission basis. We start to close this out a little bit. It is about respecting the other, the inbox. It is about giving them choices versus pushing it in. Right. The push up, I think especially in LinkedIn, it is so important to be transparent and authentic.

00:20:56:01 – (Brynne Tillman): But also I’m going to go back to slow down that outreach because it will speed up the outcome. You will build stronger relationships. They will be trust based conversations. And at the end of the day, you are going to have significantly more success by slowing it down.

00:21:17:07 – (Bob Woods): I could not think of a better way to wrap up this episode of Making Sales Social Live, sponsored by Ask SSL dot AI. If you’re with us live on LinkedIn or YouTube right now, we do this every week, so keep an eye out for our live sessions. And yes, the book Prompt Writing Made Easy using the crispy framework available on Amazon. It was a number one new release in a couple of different categories. When it first came out and we would love to see you have a copy of it to take your prompting to the next level.

00:21:52:07 – (Bob Woods): So if you’re listening to us on our podcast right now and you haven’t subscribed already, go ahead and hit that subscribe or follow button to access all of our previous shows and be alerted when new ones drop. And you know, like and comment. We love those as well. If you’d like more info on our podcast Social Sales Link dot com slash Podcast is where you want to be and

00:22:12:07 – (Bob Woods): If you’re out and about this week and every week, be sure that you’re using permission based messaging, permission based sales, and be sure that your sales are

00:22:25:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Social. 

00:22:26:07 – (Bob Woods): Social, Exactly. Thank you everyone. I appreciate it. Sandy, any chance we can get a copy of today’s session? Once this ends, it will then re-spool up like right on LinkedIn. And you can watch it at that point. So thank you very much. Have a great day. 

00:22:40:01 – (Brynne Tillman): Bye, guys.

Outro:

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