Episode 62: Meshell Baker – Igniting Confidence for Sales Success
In this episode, we are joined by Meshell Baker, the founder and CEO of Meshell Baker Enterprises, where she talks about the significance of having a clear and compelling vision. Listen as the “Master Manifester” stresses the importance of uncovering your reasons for selling in order to sustain long-term success. So tune in and start formulating that vision.
Meshell Baker 00:00
We like to gather we like to speak to people and when you can do sales in a manner that’s just as effortless as going to a gathering that you enjoy, then it becomes social, then it becomes more relational, you become more approachable, and the benefit to your buyer, who is part of a community and humanity starts to change the way we operate and the way we interface as people and it’s just really important to me that we do things in a manner that really impacts the humaneness of what we are.
Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast! Featuring the top voices in sales and marketing. Join host Brynn Tillman and Bill McCormack as they discuss the best tips and strategies they are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Here are your hosts Brynne Tillman, and Bill McCormick.
Bill McCormick 01:12
Hey, welcome to Making Sales Social. I’m Bill McCormick.
Brynne Tillman 01:15
I’m Brynne Tillman.
Bill McCormick 01:16
So Brynne, who’s joining us today?
Brynne Tillman 01:19
Oh, I am so excited. Meshell Baker is joining us today. I met Meshell through Women’s Sales Pros and I think we had an immediate connection. One of the things I love is her approach to sales in an authentic and human way that I’m really excited for everybody to learn about. Welcome Meshell, tell our listeners a little bit about you and your business is it Meshell Baker Enterprises or Igniting Confidence?
Meshell Baker 01:53
So igniting confidence is just like the tagline it’s the expression of what people receive. The benefit or you know, as I say, “The blessing of Meshell” and then my business is just currently Meshell Baker Enterprises. And yes, so my gift, as I said, is igniting confidence and I’m just super-duper passionate about helping business owners and sales leaders to identify and connect with more of their ideal buyers. So they can do more of the work they love to do. So creating an authentic, seamless weigh about how they go about connecting and making sales and bringing onboarding clients is my mastery and it’s the thing that just really lights me up. So yeah, a lot of fun!
Bill McCormick 02:37
This is gonna be great. So you said a number of words that I’m like, pinging off in me. Ideal client, right? Authenticity. So but before we get that Meshell, we always asked every guest the same question to lead off. What does making sales social mean to you?
Meshell Baker 02:53
Oh, well, social is, we are community, we’re connected and by nature, we like to gather we like to speak to people and when you can do sales in a manner that’s just as effortless as going to a gathering that you enjoy, then it becomes social, then it becomes more relational. You become more approachable and the benefit to your buyer, who is part of a community and humanity starts to change the way we operate and the way we interface as people and it’s just really important to me that we do things in a manner that really impacts just the humaneness of what we are.
Brynne Tillman 03:37
Couldn’t say it better.
Bill McCormick 03:38
It’s like a mic drop moment right from the start. So that’s amazing. Did you have something Brynne?
Brynne Tillman 03:45
Well, I always have something. So you know, what I’m hearing that I absolutely love that, you know, resonates so deeply is we are selling to human beings, not leads, not prospects, people. . And so what I’m hearing I can’t wait to hear more, is we have to start building these relationships authentically and potentially one of the things we talked about is detaching from the sale and attaching to helping them solve a problem as a human being. And I think and I’m excited to hear more but like that’s where all the wheels in my head are going.
Meshell Baker 04:32
Yeah, absolutely! And as I heard you say like “detaching” so I combined what I call, what I tell people is what I do is I combine some of the principles of what, how we succeed with our human nature. Like I tell success is not our natural nature. Our nature is to be comfortable, cozy, warm, toasty, I always give the image we want to go home Kick back on the Barcalounger, eat some chips, drink some beer, have some soda, and fall asleep with the TV on. (Bill: Eat ice cream) There you go but success demands that we go home and we read a book we exercise, we eat a healthy meal, we interface with our family, right? So it’s not our nature and so actually realizing that sales is one of those jobs that is emotionally difficult. And that’s what many people don’t really talk about because it has a lot of rejection. Right? If you think about the scale, a lot of 100 cold leads, only 3% of the people are ready to buy today 10% will buy from you, another 30% will follow up with you and become possible buyers throughout the course of the cycle of your you know, lifespan at that company, but it will never happen immediately. So the constant follow-through and follow up and the fear of rejection is so high. And that’s the humaneness that many people do not actually help their sales rep with. That’s where my mastery comes around is talking about that part and making them rejection proof. Because then when they understand it’s gonna happen, it’s not a big deal. So how do I emotionally prepare myself for what is inevitable.
Bill McCormick 06:16
I love the imagery I get here because if I go home, and I sit in my recliner, and I just eat ice cream all the time, which would be my default mode. “Hi, I’m Bill, I have a problem with ice cream. It’s just, it’s who I am.” So if I do that, I’m going to get fat, I’m going to get out of shape. So as we talk about sales reps, if they’re just going home and relaxing. So if they’re not putting time into who they are, as people, what happens today?
Meshell Baker 06:52
what happens is, you will begin to the day that actually happened begins to be the story that you repeat. So when you didn’t get to the sale, when they didn’t call you back, when it didn’t happen that becomes the repetition. When you go home and are on the way home, even you’re in your car, you’re listening to a podcast like this, you’re listening to a book on tape, you’re taking courses, you’re part of a mastermind, that is talking about the challenges, but how they overcome and so your mind is the storehouse as I tell people, we are not in control the chatter in your head is in control. And until you feed that chatter, what it needs to give you success in sales, you’re not going to have it.
Brynne Tillman 07:40
Do you think of chatter like mantras? Or like what is chat? Like, define chatter? And how we can control that? Maybe?
Meshell Baker 07:49
Yes. So in terms of the way we are 90% of our decision-making comes from the unconscious. It’s already made before, right? So once you actually open your mouth and start talking, it’s already too late. Like it’s already been synthesized at an unconscious level. We are habits, creatures of habits. And you know, that research has shown Joe Dispenza done a lot of research around this. The Power of Habit, there’s another book, you can read Atomic Habits, (Bill: I love Atomic Habits) Right talk about how habitual we are. So since success is not your nature, creating the habit of success is requisite to sales, right? Top performers don’t think about what they have to do. They just do it because they’ve habituated and brought it into identity. Now, having said that, that is the hardest thing for an adult to do is to establish a habit of success in any category of life, and sales with a high level of rejection that makes it almost virtually impossible. That’s why there’s so much turnover and sales.
Brynne Tillman 09:01
What do you recommend? So let’s say we have a listener right now. He’s like, “Alright, you know, I’ve got some bad habits. I know, I’ve got some bad habits. I have some success with sales but I know I’ve got the wrong messaging in my head, I know that I’m coming to a sale, thinking about what that customer is worth to me versus what I’m worth to that customer.” (Meshell: Exactly) You know. What’s the first thing? Do they take inventory of their current state of being? Like, what is the first thing they do? I guess, in some ways to create awareness of the chatter, right? I mean, what would you recommend?
Meshell Baker 09:40
So the first thing I do when I’m working with people is start with “Why do you want to sell?” Most people aren’t even asked that question, “Why is it important for you to sell?” So just really uncovering the reasons because when the reasons outweigh the results, that’s your impetus. That’s your drive. That’s your motivation. That’s why you keep going. And many people, that’s why sales are so difficult, sales is a very results-oriented beast that really doesn’t care about the why and yet the why is vitally important to sustain success long term. So getting clear on that, why, which is the vision, right? No greatness is ever achieved without having envisioned it first in your mind. So getting them clear and tying that and helping them create what a successful vision of sales is for them. And 9 times out of 10. It’s not about their job. It’s not even about their work. It’s about the lifestyle, the family they love, the kids they have, the houses they want to buy, the travel they want, but they’re never equating and tying it all together in a clear and compelling vision. And that’s where I like vision mastery. I’m called The Man– I’ve worked places and people still call me “Mast”. Meshell, “The Master Manifester” But helping people create clear and compelling visions is my jam. And that’s what I love to do. And then once we get the vision of the “What” tie it to the reasons of the “Why” then we dial in who is the person who has the what, and that’s where the habit to the habituating comes in for that. So then it just becomes your knee jerk reaction that you would all that you want all that what is just
Brynne Tillman 11:24
so I love this. One of the things we talked about is purposeful prospecting, in social selling, one of the biggest mistakes that folks make is random acts of social, right, we’re unconsciously going in and engaging without structure, right? And so we often talk about how the random acts, they’re like big dark holes, you know, that you get stuck in, and you’re never as productive as you could be. So you know, putting together so we usually we don’t often use the word habits, but we use the word, you know, daily cadence or tactics. (Bil: Consistency) (Meshell: Consistency, that’s another word, YES!)
Brynne Tillman 12:07
Yeah. So you know, if you’re talking with the salesperson right now, and you know, we’re talking about getting the head straight. Right. What’s the next thing? Right, so now I understand that I need to be purposeful. I need to, you know, so how do you know?
Meshell Baker 12:29
I have my morning routine. So now who’s the ideal buyer, right? So that’s where I help. So if you’re not clear, on the ideal buyer, none of this is gonna work. Right? Now, you’re just throwing spaghetti at the wall. So now we go into incorporating the principles of successful selling. But first, we have to get you clear so emotionally, you’re ready because once you start applying these principles, they’re not going to work. And there’s still high rejection. Right? So we just want you to be paired. I tell people when you can master being uncomfortable, uncertain, and inconvenient, It’s a win. That’s what most people cannot do. They cannot deal with anything that doesn’t go their way. Every day doesn’t go your way when you think about it. But yes, who is that ideal buyer and being prepared. So starting now that you have a vision, you start creating visions before you prospect before you pick up the phone and dial before you go live on Facebook? What is the outcome that’s going to be beneficial to that ideal buyer? How are you speaking to them in a way that lights them up, it’s not about you getting the sale, it’s about you transforming a life or leaving someone better off, right? So it’s the process of what I call nurturing. If you constantly seed and nurture, you will always have a harvest or most of what is taught and still is how to go out and hunt. And then you’re, you know, then you constantly have to hunt and so it’s a kill, right. Kill every kill kind of principle, which is exhausting, overwhelming, frustrating, versus just your natural ability of how you light up when you think about that ideal buyer, and that lights them up, and then doing the activities that maintain that energetic belief because I always say a transaction is just your belief. So it’s your belief that someone else would take action. And what you’re transferring is belief. You’re transferring your belief that the buyer would take action. Belief is emotional so if you haven’t dealt with your emotions, you cannot convince them or you cannot influence them to take the action that you believe is in their best interest.
Brynne Tillman 14:39
So I love the phrase “Light them up” I think that’s so cool, right? Like, we can be really excited about what we do. And when Bill and I talk about social selling like we have, you know, we light up we’re excited but the key is not our excitement. The key is to I guess transmits that’s probably not that. It’s to help the person on the other side, get as excited about it as we are with the vision of how this can help them transform.
(Bill: Yes!) Love that.
Bill McCormick 15:17
Yeah! I think of the Scott Schilling quote, you know, coming in with high intention and low attachment, you know, and coming in with this high intention that we’re going to do this that we’re going to take them on this journey which we talked about the journey, the buyer’s journey, we talked about not leading with our solution but leading to our solution. And so leading them to the light. (Meshell: Yes) You know so that we light them up. This is fantastic. I’m taking a bunch of notes here. So this is so so good.
Meshell Baker 15:50
Yeah, this is, and this is one of the things I enjoy. When I tell people, when people hire me to speak to their teams or train their teams, my commitment is that I will help you create successful humans that will sell well. Right? I’m not promising you that I’m going to go into because what you want is you want them because having a great sales force also means that you also… the greatest companies understand that their employees are actually selling their company for them and everything they do. (Brynne: Yeah) When you go, when that company… when those employees go to happy hours and I always remember this when I was a sales rep or when I worked for a company and I always listened to the people who complained about their jobs, because I wasn’t that person. I love where I work. What are you talking…? People are, “Oh, my God, where do you work?” and they thought it was the job. It wasn’t the job. It was me. Because I was clear on what I delivered, why I wanted to sell and I went and found companies that align with that. So it was a win-win.
Brynne Tillman 16:51
I love that one of the challenges I think for salespeople is going out to find those companies. (Meshell: Yes. Yes.) What recommendations do you have? And then Bill has a question after that.
Meshell Baker 17:03
Well, I don’t personally do hiring or things like that. But I have worked with sales reps before who I’ve coached. And what we do is they literally write out their ideal role, what the ideal job and then again, we go through the process, write out whatever you want. Now, we’ve got to look at your qualities. Because remember, somebody is hiring you to help them build their business. So you say you want this, what is the value that you bring? Right? If you want more, you must become more, we’re adults, Genie, and Santa Claus is not common people, you want more, you become more. Do you want a better job? Why are you more valuable to that company, you want to raise, you want the promotion? Why are you more valuable to the company? Have you invested in yourself? Or you’re showing up early? Right? What makes it worth it to the employer for you to be advantageous to them? And when you’re clear on that, when you’re able to that’s when you actually attract more opportunity? Because when you’re interviewing, you’re interviewing them to see why they get you instead of why you get the job.
Brynne Tillman 18:11
Ultimately, you know, we often say there are three elements to this, right? You have to love it. You have to be really good at it. And people have to be willing to pay you for it. Exactly. Yeah. So that’s like the trifecta, Bill. I’m sorry. I know.
Bill McCormick 18:28
That’s fine, I just want to go back to that. because what if you’re, a sales rep, and you’re at a company now and you’re trying to sell authentically, but from the top-down, it’s we just care about these numbers. We just care about you doing this amount of calls per day, and we don’t care what you have to say to get them on the phone. We don’t care what you have to say, to get a signature query, how do you kind of lead up to that level?
Meshell Baker 18:56
So well, that’s where your performance is important because they’re only going to listen to you if you’re a performer. Right? So it’s always intriguing to me, the people who are not performing who want to complain and want to change things, or they just got there and haven’t been there long enough to you know, really prove themselves and feel like they can change things. So this is where that vision right? So the thing about the vision is that you don’t know when and you won’t stop until so I always tell people when you truly understand a vision is about developing your character and the quality you are more than it is about the results. The results will always come when you’re in a vision. Goals have a timeline a vision does not right, so and so when you decide the vision of you impacting that company, if you believe that authentic selling is in the best interest of that company, then you sit down and you write a vision of that and if they, if it doesn’t serve what the world or universe or whatever you want to call it will actually place you where you need to be. Opportunity, will show up as long as you stay valuable, right? As long as you stay positive and favorable, no matter what. Your belief is always in that there’s something greater and if you see it and they don’t, then you are there to give it to them. And if not them, the next person who will benefit you.
Brynne Tillman 20:19
I love that. And then you’re looking at it from a positive perspective.
Meshell Baker 20:23
Always positive, whatever you appreciate, will appreciate. It’s the law of life where people start complaining, you’re not appreciating, always saying that appreciating state no matter what anyone else’s does. If you want to keep your value high, you appreciate always no matter what.
Bill McCormick 20:43
And you have to approach it from the point of a high-level professional athlete. (Meshell: Yes) And you know, a high-level professional athlete doesn’t just go to practice once a week, they’re working on their craft every single day. And they’re not practicing less, if the team is doing bad, they’re actually more. And they’re always with the idea of it’s not about the level of the team, we don’t rise and fall to the level of the team. They have a personal ethos, and they have a personal ethic that they live by as a professional athlete. And so as professional sales. A sales professional (Meshell: Oh, yes,) We have to do the same thing.
Meshell Baker 21:23
Yeah. I love that analogy so I’ll probably be using that going forward because it just summed it up. And you get a really clear picture. And I always and the other thing that I reminded of are athletes understand they’re not paid to play, they’re paid to practice.
Bill McCormick 21:37
Whoa, that’s good. So that’s good. So I stole mine. I stole the previous one from Larry Levine, I’m gonna steal that from you put it together, and then it’ll be built.
Meshell Baker 21:48
I know right? We just filled it up. But yes, right, because the game is only one time. (Bill: That’s right.) The practice is repetition. They practice 1000 times so that in the game, it’s identity, you no longer think you can’t because you’ve done it so many times. And that’s why sales (Brynne: muscle memory) Right, so you get clear what is the success of my sales role, where I am, and then you go do the practice the identity, right? of who you’re becoming, and then you just keep practicing that. So when the opportunity shows up, your knee jerk is done. And that where the reservoir, the 90% of your unconscious, is already chalked with belief that you can, you are, you’re able.
Bill McCormick 22:29
Alright, so I’m just going to tell everyone to pause this right now, rewind to the last couple of minutes. And just keep re-listening to that. Because that is, that’s where success lies in sales. So you’re not paid really, to get signatures on a contract, you’re paid for all the work that you do that led up to that moment. And that’s where the practice is. None of us need to be trained how to take a signed contract, that’s natural. I’ll do that all day long. So this is so good. And unfortunately, we are coming to the end. But wow, this is fantastic. So Meshell, tell everyone a little bit more about what you do, how they might get a hold of you to work with you, and how they can get stay in touch with you.
Meshell Baker 23:25
Yeah, well, thanks so much. So a little bit about the work I do. You work with me in several ways. One is speaking. so people bring me in and I always call it the warm-up. Right? So you’ll bring me in to either speak or do a half-day or full-day with your team or your client-facing employees. Right. And it’s all about helping them to reimagine what success looks like for them. Right? And so then they’ll either bring me in for sales for training, which I do is either as, you know, strictly confidence, or is the sales confidence. So it’s the psychology, the work I do requires that they do at least 12 weeks, because it’s behavioral, it’s all conditioning, and there is no right. So this the sales playbook, the week, you know, the one week, that is not anything, I can refer you to people who do that. But many people I know have already done that. And they’re wondering why they’re not getting consistent results. They’re wondering why they have turnover, they’re wondering why they can’t keep people motivated, right? Or they’re dealing with a team that’s been hit hard by COVID. And they’re really wanting to amp them up to ignite their belief that they can succeed in the vision of the company that’s created and that’s where I come in and do that work with sales, business owners, and sales leaders to help them to really create lasting long term behavioral changes.
Bill McCormick 24:48
Fantastic and so how can folks…
Meshell Baker 24:51
so they can get in touch with me by either emailing me at email@example.com so you can email me directly and I will send you a link or my system, we’ll send you a link and we’ll get on a chat and see what fun and magic we can make with you and your team. Or if you are wanting to connect and just use the tool, meshellrbaker.com/vision. I have a vision board download that you can actually access and I’ll also give you so that people can think about what the clarity of the vision is.
Bill McCormick 25:26
Brynne Tillman: We’ll make sure that goes in the show notes
Bill McCormick 25:29
Yes for sure. So thank you so much, Meshell. This was so good. I’ve got a whole page of notes here. And thank you to all those who have been listening and watching and we hope to see you again soon. And don’t forget as you’re out and about this week, don’t forget to make your sales social. Bye-bye, everyone.
Welcome to the Making Sales Social Podcast! Featuring the top voices in sales and marketing. Join host Brynne Tillman and Bill McCormick as they discuss the best tips and strategies they are teaching their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play.