Episode 252: Best of Making Sales Social: The Interviews

Intro 00:38

Welcome to Making Sales Social Live, as we share LinkedIn and Social Selling Training Strategies and Tips that will have an immediate impact on your business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, every week, Making Sales Social Live! This is the recorded version of our weekly Making Sales Social Live Show.

Bob Woods 00:24

Thanks for joining us for this special episode of The Making Sales Social podcast. It’s hard to believe but we’ve been producing episodes twice a week since July of 2021. One making sales social episode each week focuses on the interviews and conversations both Brynne and I have had with voices in sales, marketing and business, while the other is the recorded version of our making sales social live sessions that Brynne and I host each week on LinkedIn and other social platforms. 

In this special episode, We have some highlights from the best of our conversations with those people behind those voices in 2023. We talked with more than 50 Yeah, 50 of these great people this year. Here are the highlights from just a few of those conversations. Perhaps the biggest story in all of sales this year is the use of generative AI via tools like Chat GPT, and so on. Ryan Staley, founder and CEO of whale boss is one of the people at the forefront of using AI for sales in “Episode 217.” 

Ryan and I talked about those people who are skeptical about AI and sales and are worried about AI eliminating jobs in the field. I see it as potentially more of an opportunity for different sales jobs that may not even exist right now. Or if nothing else, maybe more support for salespeople with people who have specific, especially what we were just talking about, prompt writing experience to help their salespeople out. What are your thoughts on that?

Ryan Staley 02:06

Yeah, I think there’s gonna be new jobs that are created in that aspect. I do think at the same time though, I can see companies because I hear this, I literally just heard this from a founder. And I’m like, “What’s your biggest challenge in sales and like finding the right people or executives,” He’s like, all the other founders, I talk to you about the same thing. And so like, I think, what companies are going to start to do is they’re going to try and enable superhuman sellers, which is like, kind of my vision of what’s possible. 

But at the same time, there’s gonna be a lot of people that are half and that are gonna get caught, right. So I see new opportunities popping up that are not fully materialized yet. Right? Right, instead of Rev ops, and maybe like aI ops, right? With enablement from that perspective. But I do see people at the bottom that are refusing to adapt, not making it right. So I can see a big trimming of folks with that, like, I’ll give you an example. Like, I see this with agencies, like, for example, I was looking at how I can repurpose video content, right. 

And this agency, they’re like, “Hey, to do all your clips from all your episodes for the month at least 600 hours a month,” right? Then talking to other entrepreneurs that I know and founders are like, I came across a school called Video AI, right. And so video ai ai is really cool. That took 600 hours and 48 hours for the video clips I got, I could spend $50 a month, put this in and get the videos back in 15 minutes, right. 

So like that. So why I’m bringing up that example is because if there’s companies that are in Let’s even say an agency that are using that tech, versus others that are still manually doing everything by hand, they’re gonna get blown out of the water. And so I see the same kind of analysis or not the same kind of analysis, same kind of situation happening with the sales world as well. For those that aren’t like leaning in and leveraging it, they’re gonna get left behind.

Bob Woods 04:06

In “Episode 219”, Brynne spoke with renowned sales expert Liz Heiman about social selling and CRM or customer relationship management systems. And yes, the two can go together. But there needs to be a change in mindset for that to happen.

Brynne Tillman 04:25

So, I’m going to ask you a question because you know, you are most known in the sales industry for two major things. One is the sales process and the other is getting that sales process seamlessly integrated to CRM. Now CRM, when I hear this, I go anti-social, like every client I work with. They’re like, we could get our reps to use the CRM. So I’m gonna start with why are they not using it?

Liz Heiman 04:57

So let’s start there because I will tell you a very simple answer because you have made it so that it is not useful. So when people design your CRM, they design it with accountings concerns and production concerns and Customer Success concerns. And sales have to struggle through the noise. And it’s not useful. It’s not helpful. It’s just noisy. It’s just busy work. 

And it isn’t helping them accomplish what they want to accomplish. So if you want your sales team to use a CRM, have your sales team help you design the CRM that will do the work that they need to do. A lot of times they feel like all it’s about is reporting, all you care about is reporting. And so you’re making it really hard for me to do my job. And so they don’t use it. 

Brynne Tillman 05:47

So what does that look like when you go into a client and say, Okay, we’re gonna read, think your CRM, and have the sales reps participate in that? How do you do that? 

Liz Heiman  05:58

Well, the first thing is to sit with the sales reps and go through what the sales process really is, like, what does your sales process work look like? What do you do when? What are the rules to move it from prospecting? Like what first? What are the stages? I use simple stages, right? I use prospect qualify, I use cultivate, but you could use solve and close, right? Those are your three stages. And there are four stages, and they’re all right. I’m prospecting. I’m qualifying, I’m solving or cultivating, and I’m closing, they are activities happening within a stage they are not proposals sent. 

Proposal center is not a stage, I’m solving the problem of the gate to get from solving to closing, as I’ve said, I’ve gotten a verbal agreement. And We have sent the proposal contract for signature, right? So those activities are the gates. They’re the rules that move you from one stage to the next. But the stages are activities, there are a series of activities that are happening within a stage. So the first thing is, let’s be really clear about what the stages are, or what they mean, what the rules are that move them from stage to stage and what helps the salesperson know where they are in the sales process.

Bob Woods  07:13

In business, the role of digital content in the sales process hasn’t expanded as much as many think. It has an “Episode 226” LinkedIn brand strategist, Jessie van Breugel and I discussed this point, and how it’s changing as the world of sales changes.

Jessie van Breugel 07:33

Yeah, I think it’s still something that’s very, doesn’t get enough attention within businesses. Because it’s, of course, it’s a long long term strategy. And there needs to be a lot of buy-in from the team. So what I’ve seen so far from like, the like, the more employed work is that Sure, there are some people that try it on their own, but it’s often not really like it’s more done from themselves and from the company itself. 

And now we see the trend picking up that companies start to see the importance of it. So then more of the departments are like shifted into that. And I think LinkedIn is still one of the biggest platforms so that when you see a kind of like, like a spray and pray method, what you often see seems like people are good for it, or enthusiastic for like, two, three months, then don’t see the results and stop doing it. And especially with like, like, the branding and like the content game, it’s, of course, the consistency that pays off the most.

Bob Woods 08:40

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, you see so many companies out there expecting this huge initial bang, and sometimes it does happen. I mean, you know, we can’t deny that but more often than that, it is a long game and just like building, building credibility, generally speaking, credibility building doesn’t happen immediately. And I think that there’s a lot of correlation between, you know, just the overall thought process behind building credibility and then using digital content to build that credibility because you’re still building credibility in the end and, and that doesn’t happen into the three months. 

Jessie van Breugel  09:19

No, exactly. And even if it would happen in those three months it is often like a short layer lit shortlist effect.

Bob Woods 09:27

That’s a very good point. That’s a very good point. I think that’s an important point. And I do think that that really speaks to people who do have this luxury and it is a luxury because a lot of times you know sales and marketing kind of butted up against each other and they really should be working together. But you know, sales and marketing collaboration is important. 

So how do you see the relationship between sales and marketing teams evolving? Especially when it comes to lead generation and And do you have any thoughts about ensuring a seamless collaboration between these two departments that, like I said before, seem to be at loggerheads at times, and they really shouldn’t be at loggerheads?

Jessie van Breugel 10:11

Yeah, that’s a really good question. Because I’ve definitely seen this clash when I was still in my corporate corporate job. But now as a solopreneur, I’m both the sales guy and the market tariff. So I’m wearing two hats at the same time. And it’s, it’s like a benefit because I’m at every sales goal. And I know every piece of content that goes out. So I think the biggest win for these companies, or like I would say teams can make it’s like, communication is first because as a marketeer, you want to know how the sales goal goes. 

And as a sales goal know, you want to know which kind of marketing goes out, because I see marketing is like the biggest one, because the better we can do at marketing, the easy to sales becomes because better marketing attracts better, better prospects who are more informed, are more ready to buy, which makes it closing a piece of cake. That’s why I focused most of my efforts on like, crafting extremely good content for my ideal clients. Because then I know that the people that I attract are a good fit. And that’s, of course, always an iterative process. 

But I think a quick win for like, teams could be just starting with, okay, what are the most, the most common, I would say deal breakers from a sales perspective? And then we put on the hat, the marketing hat and like, “Okay, how can we create or manufacture assets that we proactively put in the hands of prospects, to make sure that these deal breakers are not an issue anymore.” And that’s where I always like, think about these things.

Bob Woods 11:48

Finding your voice and connecting through storytelling are very important, not just in social selling, but in sales overall. I spoke with Robert Kennedy, the third of kinetic communications about using your own stories, so that you can communicate how you can help your prospects through the products and services you sell.

Robert Kennedy 12:11

A lot of times when I talk about storytelling, people say, I don’t know how to tell a story or I don’t have a story to tell. Nothing extraordinary has happened in my life. I’ve got two arms, two legs, two eyes, two noses, no one. Everything’s Yeah, exactly. Everything’s going great in my life, what stories do I tell? And I say, “Listen, some of the things that you’ve gone through in your life that are just normal for you are experiences that are encouraging for other people,” for example, you at some point, took a driver’s test or road test for your license. 

Right? What was that? Like? Did you feel nervous about it? Did you pass it? The first time? Was there ever a time in school where you were uncertain about something or a test or an exam, and you had to study hard or study differently? And you’ve probably forgotten those experiences? But do we all have these things? Is there some skill that you have to learn for work? Is there a new application, or software that you have to learn in order to do something at work, or to accomplish a project or meet a deadline of some sort? 

You’re just living life walking by these things. But these are simple tidbits that people go through that people experience. And when you share how you walk through it, you don’t know there’s somebody else who’s freaked out by that very thing that says, “Oh, my gosh, If Robert could do that thing, If Robert had passed his road test, If Robert could pass his road test after failing it once or twice, then I should probably go back for mine as well.” And so if we turn that towards a sales perspective, when you’re speaking to your audience, when you’re speaking to your potential customers.

A lot of times we come at our customers with the product with the information with the data. And what customers really want to know is, will this work for me? Will my problem be solved? Or is it or how do I know? And so instead of me just saying, “Yeah, 49% of people do blah, blah, blah.” My response to connect with them is, you know what, I went through a similar experience, right? If I’m using real estate as an example, I speak to a lot of real estate companies, real estate agents, etc. 

So I might say, “Listen, if you’re trying to convince somebody about buying a home and the process of buying a home,” I lean into you know what, I remember my first home buying experience, I remember what it was like I remember having to go through the inspection. I remember having to go to the bank. I remember freaking out about the pre approval. I remember how I thought it was simple. And there were all these different people that I had to speak to. And you know what? It was scary. But here’s the thing and here’s the nugget that I want to pass on to you that helped me make it through Yeah, yeah.

Bob Woods 15:01

Yeah, it’s interesting because from everything that you’ve told me, it kind of seems like that, to develop these stories, people actually need to be a little more present in their own lives. So then they can think about things. Think about, okay, you know, maybe I can use this as a story or you know, I’ll just kind of store that. Or maybe I’ll even write something down because it may come back to haunt me in quotes, obviously, one day like that type thing? Would you agree with that, that people should probably be a little more present in their own lives to come up with this stuff?

Robert Kennedy 15:38

Absolutely, absolutely. So I’ll share two things. Number one, there’s this great book by a guy named Matthew Dix called story worthy, and he has this practice in his book, where at the end of each day, he just writes down five things that happened during one day, right. And then as he writes, after he writes down those five things, he writes down five little lessons, they could be big lessons, they could be just, you know, small, doesn’t really matter. But he just now has a story vault that he continues to build. Right? So that’s the first thing. 

The second thing is, if anybody’s ever heard of Simon Sinek, Simon Sinek has this great TED Talk, How Great Leaders Inspire Action, and he’s got this book Start with Why. And inside of that, he tells all of these different stories about different companies and ultimately says, People don’t care what you do, they really care about why you do it. Right. So if I want to, if I want to be able to connect with people, especially now when they’re bombarded by all sorts of information and options.

People are now looking a little bit deeper into “Okay, do I want to follow this person?” “Is this person just gonna kind of grab my money and then leave?” “Or are they in it for the long haul?” “Are they committed to this?” “What’s the rest of their story?” That’s why social media works, right? Because, yeah, people, people follow your stories. 

And they will follow your stories on social media, because they want to know why you do what you do, and who you are. So if you begin to lean into that you’re you’re your daily experiences and what that means and what the lessons are that you’re learning, you’ll find that you’ll be able to engage and connect with people a lot easier because they’re having human experiences just like you.

Bob Woods 17:21

One situation salespeople might confront when it comes to making sales social, or just sales in general, is being shy or introverted. Brynne spoke with author, speaker, coach and certified online marketing professional Leticia Styles about how these types of people can get the ball rolling with both social selling and sales in an overall sense.

Leticia Styles 17:46

So the very first thing is to recognise that your introverted nature is your superpower. And the reason that I say that is as introverts we’re really good at thinking through our thoughts and processing them as we’re speaking. And it’s such an important skill to have in sales because you can pivot while someone’s talking and they’re explaining something to you. You’re not only listening to them, but you’re understanding okay, this is what they need. This is what I need to say about how I need to respond. 

So once we get in the conversation, and we recognise that it’s a sincere conversation, we’re great. However, at the start of the heaviness of “Okay, I gotta have the conversation.” So these are the things that I personally like to do. I really like to deal with energetics. And so even as I’m talking right now, you notice like I’m moving my hands, this is me pumping myself up. And so when I get started, I will know, before I have a conversation, I’ll stretch, I’ll get my energy fields up, get my ambiance and my vibe up, I’ll stand up, I’ll walk around.

Brynne Tillman 18:51

I love flowing. 

Leticia Styles 18:52

Exactly get it flowing. Whenever I had days of like back to back sales calls, I made sure to put in, you know, like 15 minute breaks and I would literally turn on a song and Just Dance. Because dancing is something I enjoy , you know, whatever gets your energy up, because you’re gonna have to fill it every time and just recognize that that’s what you’re gonna have to do. You know, this is what we’re doing. 

This is what we signed up for. We chose to do it; you can choose to do anything else in your life. This is what you chose to do. So figure out what you need to do to amp up your energy. Get that energy amped up, recognise that you are a super you have a superpower in sales, knock out those sales, do your social selling, and then serve your clients because that’s what you really want to do.

Bob Woods 19:38

Last but certainly not least, Brynne spoke with Shari Levitin, a top 50 keynoter in sales. She’s been around social selling for many years, and She and Brynne talked about her journey from barely being on social, to the powerhouse she is today on LinkedIn.

Shari Levitin 19:58

Well, the world has changed. so much. And I want to back up and just say that I didn’t even know the term social selling six years ago, I didn’t know what it meant, which is interesting. I had been in a vertical and really owned the vertical and hospitality and real estate for gosh 20 years. And back then we weren’t really using social and I remember, I was doing what everybody was doing. I was doing emails, of course, I was on Facebook, right. You know, given my age, I’m a baby boomer, right. 

And I had a friend who said, you know, “Why in the world, aren’t you on LinkedIn?” So only six years ago, He said, “Why aren’t you on LinkedIn?” I said, “Oh, it’s just a stuffy Facebook, Why would I do that?” Like, I don’t need that. I don’t want that. And he also said, “And by the way, why aren’t you on video?” You know, not only should you be on LinkedIn, but you should be doing video on LinkedIn. And I just, I didn’t understand it. And I remember I was actually on a hike talking to him. And I was going up a mountain, I live in Park City. 

And he said, “Look, I dare you right now, create a video and put it on a social platform.” Well, I didn’t even have LinkedIn, or I did, but I didn’t do anything with it. And, you know, I was kind of mad at him because he was challenging me. And he said, “Oh, by the way, the videos you do are for sale.” They’re boring, and they’re inauthentic. And it’s you in front of a bookshelf, looking all duty it up. He says “Why don’t you just make a video right now, put it on Facebook and see what happens?” Well, I’m like, “Check that he’s telling me that my videos are authentic.” But I love a good challenge. 

So I said, “Okay, fine. I’ll make a video and I’ll put it on Facebook.” So I made a video. I think it was like the five, you know, things you need to be a great seller or whatever. And I looked a mess because I was hiking. And he said that’s the point. People my age want people to be more authentic. I put her on Facebook. And I was absolutely blown away. I got more views on a five minute video than I would have gotten in a year’s worth of blog posts. And I sort of realized, wait a minute, if a picture’s worth 1000 words, what’s a video worth? Well turns out a lot. And it sort of changed my life. And then I thought, “Oh, he was right about that, maybe I ought to get on LinkedIn, maybe I ought to start putting videos out on LinkedIn.” 

So what social means to me is going where the customer is, it’s using all of the channels we need to use instead of this old school. Oh, I’m going to send an email or even send a text. Well, if that person isn’t on email, or text, you need to go where they are. Are they on Instagram, I used to have a client, the only way he would return any message is if I DM them on Instagram, literally between five o’clock and seven o’clock at night, like so that it’s this idea of go where your customer is and we’re in such a mobile society that you better figure it out.

What social network are they on and then to really build your presence there. And one of the things that have helped LinkedIn is if you’re selling to businesses, that is the platform. If you’re selling you know more B2C, then you’re going to want to think about okay, maybe that’s Instagram, maybe that’s Tik Tok. But that’s, to me, what social is.

Bob Woods 23:21

We had such great conversations with these and other business leaders over the past year, and we ain’t gonna stop in the New Year. Either want to hear more, you can access the full individual interviews with all of these great human beings and the library of the podcast platform you’re currently on. And of course, feel free to browse all of our episodes, you’ll find lots of help that can aid your digital sales efforts. 

And if you’re not subscribing already, you know go ahead and click that subscribe or follow button. You know what I mean? With that I’m Bob Woods of Social Sales Link here’s hoping your 2023 was a success and that 2024 either meets or exceeds your wildest expectations. So when you’re out and about throughout 2024 Make sure that you’re making your sales social. 

Outro  24:09

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