Intro

0:00:18 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests teach their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Welcome to the show.

00:00:39:09 – (Brynne Tillman): Welcome back to Making Sales Social. Beyond excited to have Kelly Lichtenberger here. She is the vice president of sales at Hi Bob and is the author of Prospect Like a Girl. I am so excited about this book. She’s also an award-winning sales leader with over 25 years of experience. She doesn’t look it. She’s got it as a five-time AISP most influential sales professional award winner.

00:01:08:08 – (Brynne Tillman): Kelly is renowned for her building and transforming high-performing sales teams. Her expertise in scaling inside sales operations, driving revenue growth and creating exceptional customer experience. As established her as a leading voice in the industry. Today, I’m excited to explore her insights and strategies as they align with sales trends shaping 2025. Kelly, welcome to the show. 

00:01:33:21 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): I am so honored and so excited to be here.

00:01:35:10 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): I just love what you’ve been doing. So to be here is an honor for me. Thank you so much for having me. 

00:01:40:87 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh my gosh. I’m beyond thrilled. So I love that we’re both excited to be here. That’s a big win. Before I jump into your genius, we ask all of our guests one question, which is what does Making Sales Social mean to you?

00:01:55:05 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Well, it’s interesting. Throughout my career, the answer would be different today in sales, current environment. Part of why I wrote the book that I did is for me, it’s emotional intelligence. So making sales social is that piece of getting back to actually having live conversations and connecting on a level that is human and not just through AI or through email.

00:02:18:12 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): It’s actually getting to know people for who they are. 

00:02:21:18 – (Brynne Tillman): So that actually leads exactly into my first question, which you didn’t even know, but it’s exactly this, which is with the rise of AI. Tools, how do you see personalization balancing with automation in 2025? 

00:02:36:56 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So there’s a lot of exciting things that are happening, and I love what’s happening around AI., But what we can’t forget is it’s great for data sets.

00:02:44:26 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): It’s great for quick learning to find out about a whole industry or a title of a person within minutes when before it might have taken you hours to research. So for me, the AI piece is really

00:02:59:16 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): to have the knowledge you need to start a conversation, but from there it needs to go with actually active listening, getting involved with, you know, what is the other person saying.

00:03:11:01 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): You know, we’re so connected to our phones and things actually, even have a thought for a minute. To really be present with someone is really difficult. So that’s what I’m looking to do is say, how can I use AI as a tool to get to know more about a general topic, but then really take it to learn from the person directly about what interests them.

00:03:34:17 – (Brynne Tillman): So I love that. I just going to go one deeper. What tools are you helping salespeople leverage to do that research beforehand? And then how do you bridge that into the conversation? 

00:03:48:43 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): You got it. So I think even, you know, your ChatGPTs, your Geminis, your general, you know, AI tools out there, you can go ahead and just plug in a real simple, you know, in 2025 what our CFO is going to be most interested in the insurance industry, but you’re going to have it all at your fingertips and then you can dive in a little bit further and say, okay, this size insurance company did it.

00:04:15:06 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): It did it. Now it comes out, you know, so you can keep drilling in. But that’s all within minutes, you know. So I work with my teams even saying three facts in 3 minutes and then get going because no matter what, you could research everything to pieces. And then somebody asked me one question that had nothing to do with your research, and now you’re thrown off anyway.

00:04:35:13 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So that’s why it’s important to just have some knowledge about things that you’re talking to people about. But get to know them, get to know what is of interest to them personally, because outside their companies, outside of the role that they have within these companies, they have their own mindset of what they’re looking for that’s going to make them successful.

00:04:54:24 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): And people at the end of the day need to make sure that they’re checking the boxes to within their companies on a personal level to make sure that, you know, they’re doing what’s needed. 

00:05:04:76 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. I think that’s awesome. You know, it’s I love that you’re keeping the human in this, but you’re saying take advantage of the AI.

00:05:14:20 – (Brynne Tillman): Absolutely. So tell me a little bit of the mistakes that you’re seeing these sales folks make in using AI or relying too heavily on that. And then what are the trends of how they’ll be using it moving forward in 2025? 

00:05:31:56 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So those that are using AI at their fingertips for assistance with an email, how to address a certain level.

00:05:39:06 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Again, having at the ready a card that says in 2025. These are the top three things that a CFO cares about. So when you’re going in saying, I’ve heard these top three things might be on your mind, does that affect you? Will it affect you? Does it affect your company? And then putting it at a personal level. But the emails, you know, looking at things as easy as even is this subject line something that could work on this?

00:06:05:18 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): And it sounds so simple, but that’s what AI is so great at to be able to assist with things really quickly. And no longer is there any excuse for having emails that end up having like a grammar or an issue with spelling or my goodness, you know, those are the things I really say. There’s really no excuse for that now.

00:06:28:10 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): But having said that, I will say what then happens is the next mistake is we rely on whatever AI spits out for the email, that we keep it there and we don’t personalize it and go in and really inspected to say what we’re looking at. But all of the tools that I have from

00:06:45:13 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): call recordings, they all have an AI capability now where I can even go in and find out what were the top three things throughout this call that I should pinpoint as a follow up when I’m writing the email or for my next It’s all right there, so you don’t have to take all your notes and go back and listen and

00:07:05:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Spend an hour on what was just said. It’s right there. You’re ready. 

00:07:09:21 – (Brynne Tillman): That is absolutely the game changer. I have my notetaker in every single meeting, and I don’t take notes anymore because, you know, I don’t need to. Every word is capture,d and it will summarize it for me. But what I really really love is I’m way more attentive to the conversatio,n and I’m not worried about capturing things.

00:07:33:08 – (Brynne Tillman): I’m really worried about understanding things and, you know, it’s that shift I think is absolutely foundational. So agreed. Yeah. So, buyer behavior is shifting now, too. So what are you observing and how are the trends and where are buyers moving in 2025? 

00:07:55:95 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So I think it’s really important that, you know, that it keeps going up. The percentage that what the buyer has for information and data before they ever even call you.

00:08:09:20 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Yeah. So for me, it’s I know when they’re already hitting my website or coming to talk to us that they have a bunch of information.

00:08:17:06 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So my line of questioning then changes again. I say to everybody that I’m working with to take off the table the features and functionalities that our tool has. What is it that they’re truly looking at?

00:08:28:16 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): What even got them in the door to us? I just want to start learning now. What is it that they think that we do? Because again, that’s where AI could have an issue versus what we actually do and what don’t they know that we do that maybe they’re looking for one specific piece of a tool or something, but I have so many other things I can offer.

00:08:51:00 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So, let’s look at an even bigger picture. But in personal life and professional life, if the pain isn’t great enough, we’re not changing anyway, so they may just need three quotes. And lucky you, you’re number two or three on the list, so you’re never going to make it anyway. So I need to start those conversations on where are we?

00:09:10:09 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Let’s level set. what is it that we’re here for today? And if I am two or three, give me a chance to figure out what’s keeping me from number one before I go and put in the work or the effort and have those open conversations. And again, I think that helps level set with the end user.

00:09:29:08 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): My game here isn’t just to sell you something.

00:09:32:26 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): I want to get customers that last that we can go back with that I know in the future, if I have updates coming for my products that I can come back to you that might be of interest

00:09:43:20 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): that it’s not a one and done. So that relationship building has to go through the whole process now because there are too many things that hit the market quickly and

00:09:54:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Rip and replace doesn’t hurt as much as it used to with these really heavy, clunky systems and tools that we all had.

00:10:01:05 – (Brynne Tillman): So I love it. There are two things that come to mind with this. So, you know, and I don’t know what the percentage is, but it’s like something like they are 79% through the buying decision before a sale. You know, it was in the 50s a couple of years ago ,and it’s going up. And that’s because the ability to search and find content is so easy.

00:10:23:20 -(Brynne Tillman): The second piece I just want to say is I got my first client through someone who went to ChatGPT and put it in best sales Navigator Trainers, and I was on the top ten list. I don’t know how I got there. I don’t know how they thought how I’m there right? And so they went to all of the profiles of the people, and I was one of three people.

00:10:49:11 – (Brynne Tillman): And then I got the and I got to get great. They didn’t go to Google. Amazing. So as SEO and Google search are changing dramatically, the way people find you is changing, so a lot of what you’re talking about, you know that they’re learning before they even talk to you means you’ve got to have content out there for them to learn from, correct.

00:11:17:00 – (Brynne Tillman): So that’s a big shift moving, I think, from marketing departments that do feature function. I know your sales, but the marketing supports the salespeople, right? Moving from that feature function to really understanding where they are in the sales process and what content they are looking for before they even need you. 

00:11:37:32 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): You got it. I think one of the really fun things at HiBob, we do our marketing team does a great job now with a lot of video content, a lot of video wins.

00:11:50:22 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So again, it’s about meeting people where they’re at. So not just telling them in words about a win, but showing them. So we recently had a soccer team that we won so that was exciting. So we were able to put a video up that they were even, you know, all saying hi to Bob, you know, so it makes it fun.

00:12:08:19 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So you have to do things a lot different. So again, it’s not just all the heavy white papers and just again, you know, having to push out this feature functionality, it’s really using the ability to show people,

00:12:21:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): to have them talk about what was interested them and meet people at places like you just said, where are they looking for information?

00:12:28:00 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Because that has changed. Where’s the ad placement? What are the top things that people respond to? I even know that coming back to sales now, everybody’s email box is full. I don’t want just the general email again, you have to be different. So that’s even where video I bring that up a lot because if I can see it, I’ll watch it really quick.

00:12:48:01 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): This world is I can remember back when TV’s I was I in past career video conferencing and standard definition. We didn’t even have standard definition on our television set. So at that point, you didn’t even want to do video anymore where it was standard definition. You have to meet people where they’re at. That’s the technology I got used to so quickly.

00:13:08:26 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): The company that I was at, which was the first

00:13:11:02 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): video conferencing to do high definition, we were winning even though we were brand new to the game because people could look at it and clearly see what they were used to on their own TVs. It’s the same thing. How do I get my data? How do I get my when I’m outside of work?

00:13:25:26 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): How do I gather knowledge? And a lot of times now it’s quick images, quick videos. The world is Tiktok crazy, you know? So that’s what you want to see quick impulses and things that you can gather the information at your fingertips. 

00:13:40:07 – (Brynne Tillman): So I love that. It just kind of leads into my next question. Really around value-driven prospecting, right?

00:13:47:24 – (Brynne Tillman): So are there any emerging tools or techniques that you see coming in 2025 that will help salespeople really be more value-centric, value-driven in their prospecting? 

00:14:01:43 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Yeah, well, the big one here is a big one for me. I will tell you, I am a big believer in the phone call and there are so many people who want to say it’s dead, the cold call is dead, and they keep saying it.

00:14:14:20 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): I love it, and I hope they keep saying it because it gets me through the door. And the reason I think people say it is because it’s a skill set that you have to learn. It’s not one that somebody is born with. And because when people have, they’re uncomfortable with something, it’s just so much easier. Say it doesn’t work.

00:14:31:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So then we move on. They haven’t tried it, but the reason I love the phone call beyond all of those is because, again, really quickly, I can get to asking a few questions to get into learning what somebody might be interested. So before I send them a bunch of stuff that they’re never going to look at, they know my name, and they know why I’m sending it.

00:14:50:00 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So I think tools like we just implemented or I’m here, so getting out to more people at different times really understanding, you know, people are not even working all the time from the office. So then agai,n it became harder. But I think this is something that people because their email boxes are so overfilled, they’re going to want to just can I get to that information once again quick?

00:15:17:22 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): You know, speed to lead for everything. Can I get this off of my desk as quickly as possible and get it cleaned out? So if I can tell you yes or no quick where I want to go, I also am okay with that. So I’ve taken more phone calls now because I’m just like, What is it that we need?

00:15:31:01 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Let’s say don’t send me this, please don’t.

00:15:34:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So I think looking at tools that are going to make people connect more live time is going to be more acceptable as we move forward. 

00:15:42:12 – (Brynne Tillman): Very, very good. I love that. I just want to jump into something I noticed when I was doing my little homework. Your brand is really strong and emphasizing inclusivity.

00:15:54:08 – (Brynne Tillman): So how do you see diversity, equity and inclusion, reshaping sales strategies, not just hiring practices, but sales strategies in 2025? 

00:16:04:21 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Yeah, so I love that it’s really opened up from when I started. When I started, it was a very male dominated field and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that it’s just a lot of times what happens is women, unless we actually have an even a job description, unless you there’s 85% that you can read through and go, I can do that.

00:16:31:12 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): A lot of times women won’t even apply to the position. So a lot of technology sales is something that they wouldn’t even apply to because they might not have the experience there. Or again, the whole thought that sales is really, you know, the used car salesman from afar. I have to be pushy. I you know, it’s the hard pressure.

00:16:52:15 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): All of those things have changed. And I think, again, this is all about and it sounds so cliché, the relationship, but it’s how you build those relationships. And what I mean is it doesn’t have to be we’re going to dinner and, you know, I’m sending your kids a present. I don’t mean that, but I mean really meeting people where they’re at and really understanding that beyond, again, the company, there’s a person in that position that has goals, that has needs, that want to make sure that they’re doing things right.

00:17:22:23 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So they’re in line for promotions and women just in general with that emotional intelligence because we ask more questions. And a lot of times and when I’m saying this, it’s not because men don’t ask questions. Women just doubt themselves more. So we’re more likely to ask a question because we don’t know that we have the answer that we need right away.

00:17:43:27 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So but by doing that, we put the ball in other people’s court and it opens them up to really engage with us and people want to be the thought leaders. So if we are asking the questions in a way I’m learning from you, people love that in general. So that’s where I think sales is going to. I think more people are going to see that there’s more opportunities, more universities, there’s 107 universities now that actually offered sales degreed programs in the US. And they’re not only just a few classes, I’m talking master’s in sales.

00:18:17:24 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): And I went to Bentley, and that’s one of the schools that’s doing that. There’s big sales programs happening. So I’m really excited for the projection of where sales will be going and who will be joining. Very exciting times. 

00:18:33:11 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s awesome. So that leads us right into your book, Prospect Like a Girl you got in some of this, you know, is better questions versus trying to solve too soon, right?

00:18:44:10 – (Brynne Tillman): So tell me a little bit more about, first of all, Prospect Like a Girl. Just tell me a little bit about the book, but also, why should men read it? 

00:18:53:34 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Yeah, so it’s for everybody. I mean, I think it’s really important, too, for people that have been in the industry like myself for, you know, 25, 30 years that have been doing this to really open up.

00:19:04:12 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So any,

00:19:05:09 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): you know, men that are running sales organizations to to really look at this is a great opportunity to get the people that we need to be asking the right questions, to be thinking about what is the right culture fit for the companies and who do we want to now be letting into our company and to be inclusive.

00:19:26:29 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So I think that’s really important. And I think that, again, men can learn because what I’m saying right now is just it’s just a new way of thinking since COVID-19 things really changed as well, where people are working again, getting back on the phone. So how do I get that skill set? And if it comes down to that emotional intelligence that can be learned, that’s something that everybody can look at and say, Where is my skill set today?

00:19:51:28 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Even in the book, I have like a small emotional intelligence quiz that you can take and just quickly find out what are the areas I need to work on. So I think that is super important as the world of sales and how we sell has changed so dramatically that we want to, you know, keep a space and open up and let those new things happen and learn from others coming in.

00:20:14:13 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): And, you know, it’s not again, just having to have all of that information and knowledge and coming in, you know, somebody brand new can be really successful. And I love finding those, you know, people as they come in, and they’re new to their career, but they’re so excited, and they’re doing just that, asking those questions and really tapping into something that some of us have just forgotten is really important these days.

00:20:39:27 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that you said that because, you know, I’m working with a team and very young team and very successful. And the one thing they all have in common and they interviewed for this is deep curiosity. Yeah, love that. It’s like they’re just they all want to understand and learn not only about their products and services and solutions, but about the challenges of everyone they talk with.

00:21:07:09 – (Brynne Tillman): Like they really are curious. And I think obviously being smart and, you know, understanding your product and services important, but they hired for Curiosity and I think that’s great really. And that’ll take you so far. Yeah. So I just and I love working with them. They’re just awesome, and they all show up on camera. It’s great, isn’t it?

00:21:33:28 – (Brynne Tillman): Because this is all they’ve had. Yeah. So it’s great. Well, yeah, but so many salespeople are off-camera because. Yes, they do. Yeah. But curious people want to learn. So it’s, it’s really fun, and so I loved this, and I could talk to you all day. We’re as we wrap this up, is there any question that I should have asked you that I didn’t?

00:21:55:03 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): Yes, I would say you know, if you’re not, where you, You know, if you were talking to a salesperson that’s not meeting their goals today, what could they do to gain some of these skills we talked about today? And I would say that curiosity that we just talked about, be curious. Tap into the emotional intelligence again, as AI, AI, AI it’s that one piece that will really separate you.

00:22:20:06 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So go find out where you are as far as your emotional intelligence and through that, where could you get more skilled to maybe you’re not doing the active listening that you thought or maybe you’re not being as curious as you should be and then, you know, change up what you’re doing a little bit. Just those few things could be all that you need to all of a sudden be at the top of the leaderboard.

00:22:42:19 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh, I love that. So, how can people get in touch with you? 

00:22:47:45 – (Kelly Lichtenberger): So a couple of ways they can get me at Kelly dot Lichtenberger @ HiBob dot IO or I have a Prospect Like a Girl website the books on Amazon but yeah ProspectLikeaGirl dot com or at HiBob and I would love to talk to anybody that has additional questions.

00:23:04:97 – (Brynne Tillman): I love this. Thank you so much for your, oh my gosh, really some real mic drop moments today, so I appreciate that.

00:23:14:23 – (Brynne Tillman): And for all our listeners, when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your sales social.

Outro:

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