Intro

0:00:18 – (Bob Woods): Welcome to the Making Sales Social podcast featuring the top voices in sales, marketing, and business. Join Brynne Tillman, and me, Bob Woods, as we each bring you the best tips and strategies our guests teach their clients so you can leverage them for your own virtual and social selling. This episode of the Making Sales Social podcast is brought to you by Social Sales Link, the company that helps you start more trust-based conversations without being salesy through the power of LinkedIn and AI. Start your journey for free by joining our resource library. Welcome to the show.

0:00:56 – (Brynne Tillman): Welcome back to Making Sales Social. I’m so excited about our guest today. Courtney Johnson has created and scaled entire social media departments across a dozen companies, developed and executed social media strategies for hundreds of brands and individuals, and built out social media personal brand programs for sales teams, recruiting teams, and executive teams. Making Social human is a big piece of our ethos.

0:01:28 – (Brynne Tillman): Human centered social media to Courtney means prioritizing and resourcing engagement people, brands, human focused brand content and value driven brand strategies in marketing organizations. Courtney, welcome to the show.

0:01:44 – (Courtney Johnson): Thank you. I’m so, so happy to be here. Absolutely love your work and everything that you are doing. So it’s quite an honor.

0:01:51 – (Brynne Tillman): Well, thank you. I’m so excited to dive into some of the things that you do that I am clueless on, especially around TikTok videos and some other really cool content creation that connects human to human. Before we jump into your genius, we ask all of our guests one question, which is what does Making Sales Social mean to you?

0:02:19 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah. To me that means that people, people buy from people, not brands. Right. And so you can put all the effort and time and money into your brand marketing or branding and that’s fine. But you got to leave a little bit of that for your personal brand, especially your C suite, especially your founders, especially your salespeople, your marketers, anybody that really has a lot of visibility in the organization.

0:02:40 – (Courtney Johnson): It’s super, super important because people are going to make their decisions based on the people they want to work with. And we’re not making logical decisions. Right. Like people, your customers, your prospects might be buying from you just because they vibe with you, working with you in some way. They like your personality, they just, they’re you’re, they understand you Culturally, they understand you from your background, whatever it may be. People buy from people, not brands. And so it’s really just a recentering of putting the people back in the selling and putting the personal brand back in it, rather than putting all of your effort into just the company brand.

0:03:15 – (Brynne Tillman): I love that. I think that’s the human approach. Right. Which is the core of your social branding and strategies. So that’s perfect. You know, TikTok, which is, you know, I’m, I’m a grandmother. Right. So TikTok, I may be a social media person, but I’m really on the business side and the LinkedIn side. And I really swore I was not doing the TikTok thing. I’m not going down the TikTok hole. I’m just not going to do it.

0:03:48 – (Brynne Tillman): And then I said, all right, I’m going to, we’re already doing video for LinkedIn. I’m going to dip my toe into the TikTok thing. Well, it’s addictive, number one, even if you swear you’re never going to do it, it takes hold even for the professionals. And so TikTok, which was really initially very social, not social selling, not, not brand oriented, has really become one of the foundational business platforms for connecting human to human, but also B2B. So start a little bit about where TikTok is today and why business people have to start taking it seriously.

0:04:32 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, I think It’s, I mean, TikTok is just such a casual platform. It’s very behind the scenes. It’s very day in the life in a way that LinkedIn or X or these other more business focused platforms just aren’t. So your customers, your prospects, your connections just get to know you in a much different and deeper way. Obviously, another benefit is it’s a younger crowd. You’re getting a lot of Gen Z, you’re getting a lot of young millennials. So if that’s a target audience of yours, that’s fantastic.

0:05:00 – (Courtney Johnson): And if it’s not a target audience of yours, maybe you sell to more, you know, higher level, more managers, leaders, C suite. Well, millennials are getting into that now and Gen Z is going to be left. It’s like planting the seeds for a couple years in the future as well. It’s a fantastic platform. And then also there’s insane discoverability that just doesn’t exist on other platforms. The ability to go viral, and the ability to get into feeds of people in your target audience is amazing.

0:05:27 – (Brynne Tillman): So talk to me about the videos that work for businesses. You said the day in the Life. So you know, when I watch A Day in the life of Someone on Wall street, it’s kind of fun. Or A day in the, you know, and all of them start at Starbucks, right? Like it’s, you know, they have these fast-paced, you know, they get their coffee, they sit at their computer, they have their meetings, they go to a line, right? And then they’re back at their computer and they’re showing, you know, the 89 hour day in under 60 seconds. And it’s fun to watch, but it doesn’t those videos at least, and correct me if I’m wrong, it doesn’t lead to business, it doesn’t lead to opportunities.

0:06:11 – (Brynne Tillman): So I’d love to hear from you, what are, what kinds of videos should businesses focus on when they’re really looking to build that thought leadership and attract potential customers?

0:06:25 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, value based videos to take all the information you’re putting in your white papers, you’re putting in the webinars that you already have, all of the thought leadership you’re already doing and break it down into smaller bite sized chunks. For TikTok, my top performing videos are videos where I’m breaking down a concept, I’m teaching you exactly how to do something and it becomes pretty straightforward. You just want to become the subject matter expert in your field. So let’s say your organization is operations AI tool that helps optimize processes.

0:06:55 – (Courtney Johnson): You need to become the processes and operations expert. You need to start from the beginning and help people master operations on their own. You’re going to be seen as subject matter expert, gain top mind awareness and then they’re going to naturally gravitate towards you when they’re coming to their buying decision or those videos are going to help as additional touch points in the funnel.

0:07:17 – (Brynne Tillman): So you know that I love that. And everything we try to do is actionable, actionable, actionable. So, I love that. And the ones that I do watch are around like ChatGPT where they’re like try this magic hack. And I’m like, well it’s not a magic hat, but it did kind of get me to think about where I could take that idea, but I’m not sure. Although I have now purchased one thing from the TikTok store which I’m like, I can’t believe I just did this.

0:07:48 – (Brynne Tillman): But I’m not sure like that conversion piece. So the end of our videos. And our videos are primarily on LinkedIn which by the way LinkedIn now has this TikTokish feed on the mobile. We have a call to action at the end. Want more tips like this? Sign up for free for, you know, socialsaleslink.com library. Right, whatever that is. How do you feel about that on TikTok? Like, I think it’s acceptable on LinkedIn. But is that something that will turn off.

0:08:24 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, that, that will turn off people. I would limit your call to actions to maybe you have one call to action out of every 10 videos. Because call to action should be really, really natural on TikTok. Let’s say you’re sharing a downloadable checklist that you’ve created. Brynn, maybe you have that checklist in the background. You’re talking about a couple of different things on the checklist. Maybe it’s like a cold call checklist and you’re like, here’s how to craft the perfect cold call.

0:08:48 – (Courtney Johnson): People are gonna naturally know that. Okay, you’re talking about the checklist you created. It’s probably in your bio. They’re gonna go to the bio and convert. It’s a little bit more like, needs to happen a little bit more naturally now. It’s just a different, it’s definitely a different type of conversion. I would say TikTok is a great place to get like to share your lead magnets and start to capture leads.

0:09:09 – (Courtney Johnson): Is it a great place for? Yeah, like super high-intent buyers in B2B maybe? Yes, because these people are supporting the decision-maker, that’s why. But I would recommend like TikTok in combination with LinkedIn. That way you can get the more casual side, the more lead magnet side, and then LinkedIn is a little bit heavier as well.

0:09:29 – (Brynne Tillman): So then, you know, it’s very interesting. But how do you measure success then? I’m so first of all, I’m old school. Even though I, you know, the cool grandma on LinkedIn, I still have conversion. Everything I’m doing, I’m investing in this for conversion. What are some ways you know, and I hear what you’re saying, you can have a lead magnet in your profile. You can. But what are some videos that will get people to say, I want more of this. Now I know you said insights, but are they B roll videos? Are they fast paced? Are they full-face videos?

0:10:15 – (Brynne Tillman): Are they? And yeah, just talk a little bit more about that.

0:10:20 – (Courtney Johnson): The highest convert and I love your attention to detail and I love how actionable you make these questions. I think that’s really helpful for your audience. So thank you for these questions. My highest converting videos and the ones for my clients are green screen. So it’s my face or my client’s face in front of a green screen and the green screen is going through the resource. The green screen shows the prompt, the checklist, the five tips.

0:10:41 – (Courtney Johnson): That’s what I found as high as converting because that is immediately giving people value. They can immediately implement that and they immediately want more. If they’re, if they’re getting value from this type of content, they’re going to want more. So green screen with an information something in the back.

0:10:56 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh, I love that. Yeah. You know those are the things I will gravitate to now that you say it, I’m like, oh yeah, I like those. When the five things they’re talking about are showing up, I’m like, yes, I love that. How does a business find their audience on TikTok?

0:11:18 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, honestly the algorithm is really, really good as far as delivering your content to your audience. You just need to be using specific hashtags. So again, maybe you have an operations tool that you’re selling to COOs. Make sure your hashtags are around. Operations COO. You know, there’s a hashtag called tech talk where it’s a lot of like tech content relevant hashtags are going to get, are going to have the algorithm deliver your content to the right audience, and then it becomes almost like a positive self-fulfilling loop where the more people in your audience sees, the more they’re going to relate to it and the more it expands to that audience.

0:11:57 – (Brynne Tillman): So they do a lot of lookalike audiences.

0:11:59 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah.

0:12:00 – (Brynne Tillman): Oh, okay. That’s great. That’s how YouTube works too, I think.

0:12:04 – (Courtney Johnson): Yes. The algorithms are Great.

0:12:08 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. Where LinkedIn is not necessarily which. Yeah. Although there are some real benefits to LinkedIn’s algorithm that particular thing is not fantastic. Talk a little bit about storytelling or even talking about a successful job that you did like a case study. Do they do That work on TikTok?

0:12:34 – (Courtney Johnson): Case studies work very well if you are giving some sort of value. So the worst type of case study you can do is like I worked with this client and I got them a 300% ROI. Nobody cares. But you know what they do care about? I worked with this client and I got them a 300% ROI. Steal my formula of exactly how I got that. Step one, I did this. Step two, I did this. Step three, I did this. That’s going to get that, that’s going to give them value rather than just saying it’s all about me, me, me.

0:13:05 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s really very valuable even on LinkedIn. I think that is such a great combination of. To me, I think That’s a magic formula.

0:13:18 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah. And if you don’t. If you. If your clients do not want to be public with their case studies, what you can do is you can comment on another public case study. So let’s say I’m a lawyer and I can’t talk about any of my clients. What I can do, and let’s say I’m like a music lawyer. What I can do is take a famous case or a notable case that’s going on right now and talk about it. I can say this is Taylor Swift’s Spotify legal battle, and here’s how I would approach it. Here’s why her lawyer made that decision, here’s why it worked out in this way. And I’m using my own expert commentary on somebody else that’s just as powerful because that’s breaking down and showing your strategic mind without having to use your clients, if your clients don’t want to be public.

0:13:59 – (Brynne Tillman): So this has been. I mean, I could go on and on and on and on. You are brilliant. This is absolutely unbelievable. And I have a couple more quick questions. You brought up legal, so that kind of sports. Speaking of that, do they own. Does TikTok own your content now? The copyright? A lot of people are worried, like, once I put it out there, they own it. Talk to me about. Do you know anything about that? Really?

0:14:28 – (Courtney Johnson): I actually don’t. I have no idea. I wish I did.

0:14:33 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah. So. So it’s interesting on LinkedIn, I’m just going to share, there’s a new setting that defaults to on. And it’s. We can use your content to teach our generative AI and its default is on. So everyone. Until. Unless you turn it off, LinkedIn has the right to use all of your content and not even just LinkedIn. LinkedIn and its affiliates.

0:15:04 – (Courtney Johnson): Oh.

0:15:05 – (Brynne Tillman): And so that’s why I cut that spurred that copyright, like, where that lives. And it’s an interesting question, really, across all of social media, like, whether that copyright is there. The one advice I’m going to say is if it is something that is completely your ip, make sure you’re saying it. This is our proprietary. Da, da, da, da da. That’s just my thought around that. And I don’t know if that works.

0:15:40 – (Brynne Tillman): I don’t know if that would work on TikTok, but that’s what we’re saying.

0:15:42 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, you got to get a lawyer on your podcast to answer some of these questions, because I would love an episode about that.

0:15:48 – (Brynne Tillman): Yeah, maybe that’s my next. My. That’s my next reach Out. That’s awesome. I love this. What is one question I should have asked you that. I didn’t.

0:16:01 – (Courtney Johnson): Oh, oh. I think you should have asked, should I be posting on my company page or my personal page?

0:16:13 – (Brynne Tillman): Okay, Courtney, Should I be posting on my company page or my personal page? I didn’t even know there was a company page on TikTok.

0:16:20 – (Courtney Johnson): Yeah, okay, there is. Same as on LinkedIn. I think that your company page, whoever runs your company page, should be well maintained, but do not expect high conversion from your company pages. It’s really hard. It’s super pay-to-play. The minute you make a company page on LinkedIn or on Instagram or on TikTok, they’re going to want you to advertise. Set up a creator page, a content creator page. Make it about you, your personal brand, rather than just the company.

0:16:49 – (Courtney Johnson): That’s going to convert. A lot better than just being promotional. Again, having a company page is great, but also make sure you’re funneling as much as you can through you and your own personal brand.

0:17:01 – (Brynne Tillman): That’s awesome. This has been fantastic. So my listeners are now like me, going, all right, I gotta do TikTok. I know I’ve been putting it off. How do you work with people if?

0:17:13 – (Courtney Johnson): They’re like, yeah, So I run quarterly personal brand cohorts through a tool called Maven. So you guys can check out maven.com and you’ll find my stuff there. And then I also do some mentorship and on ones around personal brand and content creation. Awesome.

0:17:32 – (Brynne Tillman): Do you help them to make their videos or.

0:17:36 – (Courtney Johnson): So I can. I basically do content strategy. So you tell me your goals. I’m trying to get more clients in this area and I tell you what to post.

0:17:44 – (Brynne Tillman): Love that. Well, this has been amazing and it is one area that quite honestly, I personally wanted to learn about. So thank you so much for sharing I know it’s just something that as business owners we need to embrace and what I. The other thing I’ll say to everyone that’s listening is don’t try to do this on your own. Really, like, learn. Whether you hire Courtney or work with Courtney or just random acts of social is very painful on every platform.

0:18:20 – (Brynne Tillman): So if you’re going to invest in it, do it right. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Courtney Johnson. We really appreciate you. People can find you on LinkedIn and of course on TikTok. And I truly appreciate your insights today. And to all of our listeners, when you’re out and about, don’t forget to make your Sales Social don’t miss an episode.

Outro:

Thanks for watching and join us again for more special guest instructors, bringing you marketing, sales training, and social selling strategies that will set you apart. Hit the subscribe button below to get the latest episodes from the Making Sales Social podcast give this video a thumbs up and comment down below on what you want to hear from us next. You can also listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Play. Visit our website, socialsaleslink.com for more information.